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    Warwick has made progress over the last twenty years, consistently positioned in the top 10 for all three newspaper rankings. But it really depends on the course and the quality at both of them. For LLB Law, it is safe to say that King's is better due to the level of world-renowned research.
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    (Original post by LutherVan)
    If they are worthy of linking, they would have been linked.

    If half of the KCL law grads are good enough to head to Oxbridge and then make a name for themselves, I don't see why half of Durham or Warwick law grads cannot do the same.

    Yes, LSE and UCL alumni are better than KCLs.

    The fact there is that they are all based in London and there is an advantage in that to be near the centre for law.

    If you look at employment records of grads in general, the golden triangle are top 6. It is obvious why Oxbridge, LSE and Imperial. The other 2 have a strong London advantage.
    You can't be serious bro. First off no one on the KCL list was particularly amazing, with the exception being the head of the supreme court. They were just lawyers who did relatively well in their career. Second, they shouldn't have even been linked bc they didn't matriculate from KCL! But whatever at least you conceded that "LSE and UCL alumni are better than KCLs." That was my only point.
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    (Original post by LutherVan)
    I never said Imperial did Law. I used grad in general because that is the only genuinely available information.

    In regards to number of graduates that end up in graduate level employment in general, the Golden Triangle are the top 6. Which suggest being in London is a strong advantage as many of the top universities outside London did not perform as well. Especially if you have the likes of KCL above Oxbridge.

    01) Imperial
    02) LSE
    03) KCL
    04) Cambridge
    05) Oxford
    06) UCL
    07) Bath
    08) City
    09) Robert Gordon
    10) Bradford

    13) Durham
    15)Bristol
    17) Nottingham

    Others are not even in top 20.

    If you have the record of Trainee hires for all MCs, it will be helpful.

    It has been historically been clear that over 92% of Trainee Barrister are Oxbridge grads. It is an old boy network setting in that sphere.

    I have said earlier that Oxbridge is gaps ahead of the rest because of such advantage and LSE/UCL/KCL are only negligible better than other top law schools.

    It is like Economics, Oxbridge and LSE are detached and far ahead of the next batch and have old boy network advantage.
    Just because Robert Gordon is positioned higher than Bristol for grad employment does not make it better. Are you familiar with the basic types of unemployment in economics? This is a perfect example of structural unemployment. Just because a grad job is a grad job does not mean that its high paying and a good job. The Bristol grads know that if they wait a bit longer they could snag something better. Think about it this way. The Bristol econ grad wants to get into IB. Didn't get in the first time around. So he waits, and gets it the second. He's willing to wait. The Robert Gordon econ grad needs to settle immediately for a measly entry level corporate job bc he knows he'll never get IB. Make sense? All jobs are not equal. But I'm glad you could find one form of ranking to put your beloved KCL above Oxbridge and UCL.

    Anyways you bring up an excellent unanalyzed statistic here. So I think I'm going to withdraw my UCAS this year. Wait it out until next, so I can apply to Robert Gordon. Because for law they have a 70% employment rate for grad jobs, and KCL only has 65%. Maybe I'll see you at Robert Gordon next year?
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    (Original post by adam0311)
    You can't be serious bro. First off no one on the KCL list was particularly amazing, with the exception being the head of the supreme court. They were just lawyers who did relatively well in their career. Second, they shouldn't have even been linked bc they didn't matriculate from KCL! But whatever at least you conceded that "LSE and UCL alumni are better than KCLs." That was my only point.
    The might not be amazing as you claim but they do exist. The same cannot be said of Durham and Warwick.

    I had a chat with a friend doing law in KCL, he said to test the alumni, just google:

    "Legal 500" + "[Name of University]" and see which universities produced the top lawyers.

    Remember to use LSE, KCL, "London School of Economics" and "king's College London".

    He also gave me a non-exhaustive list of top counsels he got of Google that attended KCL:

    Grant Macpherson General Counsel Kroll

    Tim Pryce General Counsel Terra Firma

    Steve Williams General Counsel Unilever

    Tim Rayner General Counsel Rolls Royce

    Olivier Schwartz SVP & General Counsel DP World

    Mark Elliott Global General Counsel, commodities Bank of America Merrill Lynch

    I don't think one can find the same for a lot of other universities bar Oxbridge, LSE and UCL.
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    (Original post by adam0311)
    Just because Robert Gordon is positioned higher than Bristol for grad employment does not make it better. Are you familiar with the basic types of unemployment in economics? This is a perfect example of structural unemployment. Just because a grad job is a grad job does not mean that its high paying and a good job. The Bristol grads know that if they wait a bit longer they could snag something better. Think about it this way. The Bristol econ grad wants to get into IB. Didn't get in the first time around. So he waits, and gets it the second. He's willing to wait. The Robert Gordon econ grad needs to settle immediately for a measly entry level corporate job bc he knows he'll never get IB. Make sense? All jobs are not equal. But I'm glad you could find one form of ranking to put your beloved KCL above Oxbridge and UCL.

    Anyways you bring up an excellent unanalyzed statistic here. So I think I'm going to withdraw my UCAS this year. Wait it out until next, so I can apply to Robert Gordon. Because for law they have a 70% employment rate for grad jobs, and KCL only has 65%. Maybe I'll see you at Robert Gordon next year?
    I believe the same desires for "waiting" for a top-grad job which is high paying that applies to a Bristol grad will apply to grads of the Golden Triangle. So if they are getting the grad jobs that the likes of Bristol desire within 6 months, what does that tell us?

    Why do you say my beloved KCL? I am just being objective, that does not mean I like KCL.

    Obviously the types of jobs a Robert Gordon student will aspire to is not one the Bristol student would aspire to, but the table contains Bristol's peer group that are showing better record than their peer group. That is the key point.

    You don't need to withdraw your UCAS application, you are already going to a top Uni, just be armed with facts from the real world and don't be delusioned by the childish viewpoints on TSR. There is a wide gap of which universities are top on TSR (using League Tables) and which are top in the eyes of the people that employ (using Reputation and History).
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    (Original post by LutherVan)
    The might not be amazing as you claim but they do exist. The same cannot be said of Durham and Warwick.

    I had a chat with a friend doing law in KCL, he said to test the alumni, just google:

    "Legal 500" + "[Name of University]" and see which universities produced the top lawyers.

    Remember to use LSE, KCL, "London School of Economics" and "king's College London".

    He also gave me a non-exhaustive list of top counsels he got of Google that attended KCL:

    Grant Macpherson General Counsel Kroll

    Tim Pryce General Counsel Terra Firma

    Steve Williams General Counsel Unilever

    Tim Rayner General Counsel Rolls Royce

    Olivier Schwartz SVP & General Counsel DP World

    Mark Elliott Global General Counsel, commodities Bank of America Merrill Lynch

    I don't think one can find the same for a lot of other universities bar Oxbridge, LSE and UCL.
    OMG DUDE YOU FOUND THE GOLDEN TICKET TO RANKING UNIS! ITS AMOUNT OF GC'S!

    If you remember what my original post said....it was that KCL, Durham, and Warwick would put you on an equal playing field.

    With regards to Mark Elliott he is just GC of the commodities division, he runs 22 lawyers. Olivier Schwartz--he got a masters from KCL. His original law degree is from a french uni....so should KCL really be credited here? Anyways most GC's from big companies, I'm taking BP and Barclays, not Unilever....come from Oxbridge. So GC's are a moot point between KCL and Durham.

    KCL and Durham are going to give you the exact same career prospects when applying for TCs, as is any other top 10. In all fairness Durham has more recruiting events from MC firms compared to KCL. But again thats a moot point.

    (Original post by LutherVan)
    I believe the same desires for "waiting" for a top-grad job which is high paying that applies to a Bristol grad will apply to grads of the Golden Triangle. So if they are getting the grad jobs that the likes of Bristol desire within 6 months, what does that tell us?

    Why do you say my beloved KCL? I am just being objective, that does not mean I like KCL.

    Obviously the types of jobs a Robert Gordon student will aspire to is not one the Bristol student would aspire to, but the table contains Bristol's peer group that are showing better record than their peer group. That is the key point.

    You don't need to withdraw your UCAS application, you are already going to a top Uni, just be armed with facts from the real world and don't be delusioned by the childish viewpoints on TSR. There is a wide gap of which universities are top on TSR (using League Tables) and which are top in the eyes of the people that employ (using Reputation and History).
    If anything you are the one being distorted by TSR. I came here with two main points. Number one, unis should not be ranked by number, but rather grouped (just like what lawz did). Number two, coming from any top 10 uni is going to give you an equal shot at TCs...obviously excluding Oxbridge. You are the one trying to find little nit picking points on why one uni is better. All I was trying to show you was that they are all pretty darn similar, and therefore should be grouped. I gave you hard evidence. Numbers. You respond with your perceived opinions of HR departments. Perhaps this could be more constructive if you responded with facts, rather than anecdotes and wikipedia articles.

    Fact of the matter Durham has a 40 point higher UCAS average, higher satisfaction rate, significantly higher research rate compared to KCL, equal employment rate to KCL, and KCL has a couple GCs at some solid corporations. These are all minute details in a bigger picture. Your caught up on trying to compare KCL to LSE/UCL and even Oxbridge. While I'm trying to show you that it can't be broken down piece by piece.
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    Don't listen to anyone who says Warwick and cites prestige. Most large law firms do their recruiting from Oxbridge and KCL.
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    (Original post by adam0311)
    KCL and Durham are going to give you the exact same career prospects when applying for TCs, as is any other top 10.
    I agree with this.

    (Original post by adam0311)
    In all fairness Durham has more recruiting events from MC firms compared to KCL.
    I disagree with this.

    (Original post by adam0311)
    If anything you are the one being distorted by TSR. I came here with two main points. Number one, unis should not be ranked by number, but rather grouped (just like what lawz did). Number two, coming from any top 10 uni is going to give you an equal shot at TCs...obviously excluding Oxbridge. You are the one trying to find little nit picking points on why one uni is better. All I was trying to show you was that they are all pretty darn similar, and therefore should be grouped. I gave you hard evidence. Numbers. You respond with your perceived opinions of HR departments. Perhaps this could be more constructive if you responded with facts, rather than anecdotes and wikipedia articles.

    Fact of the matter Durham has a 40 point higher UCAS average, higher satisfaction rate, significantly higher research rate compared to KCL, equal employment rate to KCL, and KCL has a couple GCs at some solid corporations. These are all minute details in a bigger picture. Your caught up on trying to compare KCL to LSE/UCL and even Oxbridge. While I'm trying to show you that it can't be broken down piece by piece.
    I have made it clear from the onset that Oxbridge are in a league of their own. I also made it clear that although LSE, UCL and KCL are the rest of the top 5 but the gap of these 3 from the top tenish is negligible hence irrelevant. I never said attending those 3 will lead to better jobs, as bar Oxbridge bias, Law is not highly discriminatory like IB.
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    (Original post by LutherVan)
    I agree with this.
    Cheers mate


    (Original post by LutherVan)


    I disagree with this.
    I know it doesn't matter at all, but for what its worth.


    Clifford Chance: Durham 2/KCL 2
    Linklaters: Durham 3/KCL 1 (plus they sponsor Durham's law ball)
    Freshfields: Durham 2/ KCL 2
    Slaughter: Durham 1/KCL 1
    Allen Overy: Durham 4/KCL 2

    http://gradsuk.cliffordchance.com/events.html
    http://www.linklatersgraduates.co.uk/events/calendar
    http://careers.freshfields.com/globa...ty-events.aspx
    http://slaughterandmay.co.uk/careers...us-events.aspx
    http://www.aograduate.com/en/Meet-Us/In-Your-Area

    (Original post by LutherVan)


    I have made it clear from the onset that Oxbridge are in a league of their own. I also made it clear that although LSE, UCL and KCL are the rest of the top 5 but the gap of these 3 from the top tenish is negligible hence irrelevant. I never said attending those 3 will lead to better jobs, as bar Oxbridge bias, Law is not highly discriminatory like IB.
    Agree with this. But it was not presented like this from the start.

    Looks like for the most part we are in agreement.
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    (Original post by Realism)
    Don't listen to anyone who says Warwick and cites prestige. Most large law firms do their recruiting from Oxbridge and KCL.
    I definitely agree. They don't even consider UCL or LSE.
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    (Original post by adam0311)
    I definitely agree. They don't even consider UCL or LSE.
    :rofl:

    Realism (ironic username, huh?) and LutherVan deserve the biggest facepalms ever.
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    (Original post by LutherVan)
    I never said Imperial did Law. I used grad in general because that is the only genuinely available information.

    In regards to number of graduates that end up in graduate level employment in general, the Golden Triangle are the top 6. Which suggest being in London is a strong advantage as many of the top universities outside London did not perform as well. Especially if you have the likes of KCL above Oxbridge.

    01) Imperial
    02) LSE
    03) KCL
    04) Cambridge
    05) Oxford
    06) UCL
    07) Bath
    08) City
    09) Robert Gordon
    10) Bradford

    13) Durham
    15)Bristol
    17) Nottingham

    Others are not even in top 20.

    If you have the record of Trainee hires for all MCs, it will be helpful.

    It has been historically been clear that over 92% of Trainee Barrister are Oxbridge grads. It is an old boy network setting in that sphere.

    I have said earlier that Oxbridge is gaps ahead of the rest because of such advantage and LSE/UCL/KCL are only negligible better than other top law schools.

    It is like Economics, Oxbridge and LSE are detached and far ahead of the next batch and have old boy network advantage.
    You really think that Oxbridge doesn't top the table in terms of grad prospects after all post grad study is done? And Bradford being on that table demonstrates the idea of Quality over Quantity, as in, Bradford grads may well go work at McDonalds or something, whilst all the Warwick grads wait for better opportunities to arise.

    I don't have any records unfortunately, as I say, the best thing I think is possible to do is to take samples from individual websites, and I agree, I haven't yet seen someone not from Oxbridge (But I was looking at top, top sets)
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    (Original post by Doughnuts!!)
    Yeah, Warwick is awesome. :love: Though I can see the isolated nature of the campus eventually getting to me...

    *sharp intake of breath*

    You want to go there, eh? Cambridge is the best university in the world whereas Oxford sucks! :fyi:

    If I could swap positions with you, I would decline the Oxford offer and go to QM. :p:
    Nah, if you ended up there, I'm sure you'd have a good time, like I say, short ride to Coventry.

    And lmao :rofl: look at us, ribbing like a couple of old boys.
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    cba to read whole discussion but :facepalm2: to those who seriously think employers consider frivolous newspaper rankings and wikipedia listings when targeting which unis to recruit from.
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    You really think that Oxbridge doesn't top the table in terms of grad prospects after all post grad study is done? And Bradford being on that table demonstrates the idea of Quality over Quantity, as in, Bradford grads may well go work at McDonalds or something, whilst all the Warwick grads wait for better opportunities to arise.

    I don't have any records unfortunately, as I say, the best thing I think is possible to do is to take samples from individual websites, and I agree, I haven't yet seen someone not from Oxbridge (But I was looking at top, top sets)
    As I stated earlier, most tables are just indicative. Obviously the types of jobs a Bradford grad will go for will be different from that a Warwick grad will.

    The question you need to ask yourself is why are Warwick's peer group unis' graduates, that will also likely wait for better opportunities to arise, high up in the table? Surely that most likely means they are getting the jobs the Warwick grad is waiting for in shorter timespans than the Warwick grad? So I really don't see it as a valid excuse.

    (Original post by Doughnuts!!)
    :rofl:

    Realism (ironic username, huh?) and LutherVan deserve the biggest facepalms ever.
    It might be best you explain why I deserve facepalms.
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    I would go to KCL any day of the week. Warwick looks tedious.
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    (Original post by LutherVan)
    As I stated earlier, most tables are just indicative. Obviously the types of jobs a Bradford grad will go for will be different from that a Warwick grad will.

    The question you need to ask yourself is why are Warwick's peer group unis' graduates, that will also likely wait for better opportunities to arise, high up in the table? Surely that most likely means they are getting the jobs the Warwick grad is waiting for in shorter timespans than the Warwick grad? So I really don't see it as a valid excuse.
    Hmm, you raise a valid point.

    But in another table, Warwick's overall grad prospects are ranked 13th.

    1) Imperial
    2) BUCKINGHAM
    3) ROBERT GORDON
    4) Oxford
    5) Cambridge
    6) LSE
    7) Bath
    8) UCL
    9) KCL
    10) Surrey
    11) City
    12) Bristol
    13) Warwick
    14) Durham
    15) Lancaster
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    (Original post by Doughnuts!!)
    :rofl:

    Realism (ironic username, huh?) and LutherVan deserve the biggest facepalms ever.
    Nice catch. Didn't even see his username lol

    (Original post by LutherVan)
    As I stated earlier, most tables are just indicative. Obviously the types of jobs a Bradford grad will go for will be different from that a Warwick grad will.

    The question you need to ask yourself is why are Warwick's peer group unis' graduates, that will also likely wait for better opportunities to arise, high up in the table? Surely that most likely means they are getting the jobs the Warwick grad is waiting for in shorter timespans than the Warwick grad? So I really don't see it as a valid excuse.



    It might be best you explain why I deserve facepalms.
    Explain this.

    I think the face palm comes from the course of discussion. This is the basic path:

    You: KCL=UCL=LSE>Durham/Warwick
    Me: Here is hard data that puts Durham above KCL and KCL is not equal to LSE/UCL.
    You:You used league tables, how dare you. But even though you have hard stats, KCL is better bc they have GCs in blue chip firms.
    Me: Didn't use the tables but presented hard data showing 65 percent of the MC from a top 10. Explained gap between KCL and LSE/UCL.
    You: Completely ignored presented arguments by posting wikipedia links of non-comprehensive alumni lists.
    Me: Show you that over 50% of the KCL alumni list didn't even matriculate/get an LLB from KCL. Explain flaws in the alumni list.
    You: The alumni list is worthy but doesn't respond to the main contentions. Concede that "LSE and UCL alumni are better than KCLs."
    Me: Accept the fact that you conceded the argument.
    You: Propose ranking by employment numbers putting KCL above Oxbridge.
    Me: Explain flaws of employment table. Reiterate the equalness amongst top 10.
    You:Ignore the flaws and show a couple GCs who have attended KCL.
    Me: Reiterate the equalness amongst top 10. Explain flaws in the use of GCs as an indicator.
    You:Begins to alter argument to mesh with the equalness of the top 10.
    Me: Accepts your altered argument
    You: Agreed for the most part.
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    Hmm, you raise a valid point.

    But in another table, Warwick's overall grad prospects are ranked 13th.

    1) Imperial
    2) BUCKINGHAM
    3) ROBERT GORDON
    4) Oxford
    5) Cambridge
    6) LSE
    7) Bath
    8) UCL
    9) KCL
    10) Surrey
    11) City
    12) Bristol
    13) Warwick
    14) Durham
    15) Lancaster
    You sure you don't want to give up your spot at Oxford? Buckingham is looking pretty attractive at number 2...
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    (Original post by adam0311)
    You sure you don't want to give up your spot at Oxford? Buckingham is looking pretty attractive at number 2...
    I didn't apply sadly

    And I would but I'm not really up for another gap year.
 
 
 
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