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Why is everyone so upset over tuition fees reform? Watch

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    People who want to be educated should be able to be educated.

    And yes, I suppose you could argue that people should have to pay for their education, but we won't JUST be paying for our education at the new rates, we will be paying the country's debt, which will put us in impractical debt before we've even built life foundations.

    How do you get a country out of debt by putting it's residents in debt?

    Of course taxpayers should fund students. They fund the NHS, so why not fund the future doctors? They listen to music, so why not fund the musicians? They read books, so why not fund the novellists?

    I think you get the gist. When we're not even old enough to pay tax from the wage of our part time jobs, we should NOT have to think about life with thousands of pounds worth of debt.

    I want an education. And I WILL be educated.
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    In a way it's a good thing. I was thinking about studying fashion design, but i think i'll benefit more from studying fashion management
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    *
    Which gets written off anyways. - Now after 30 years rather than 25.

    You failed to address my point on interest rates, why are they using RPI as opposed CPI? Everyone knows RPI is bull****.

    (Original post by im so academic)
    *It is a coalition.
    *The Tories are the majority of the Coalition.
    *Therefore the Lib Dems have to compromise.
    *They did not win the general election.
    *For the sake of the country, they broke their promise.
    *Otherwise it would have stirred up unnecessary political tension.
    The lib dems are hell-bent on getting their referendum on AV, they most probably would have lost this if they voted against the rise.

    (Original post by im so academic)
    In addition - how could you be so gullible to believe in the Lib Dem's proposals in the first place? When I first heard of it, I thought "*******s". Your fault in the first place for believing in such a system. So you should have expected it for it not to have worked. 6 year phasal-out of tuition fees, my arse.
    They managed it in scotland. Was it to nieve to believe they could do it in england (well obviously).

    Even you must be able to see why lots of us are butt hurt over the reform.

    Im personally more pissed off about the interest rates and not being able to pay the debt back early than anything.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Supply and demand. There is a high demand for GEM, and there are people who are in a position to pay for it. In addition, it is still a second degree, so it's not fair for Medicine to be funded and not other second undergraduate degrees.
    Why shouldnt second degrees be funded when we have to pay it back anyway, personnally i wouldnt mind a percentage of the tax i already pay going towards some body doing a second degree instead of all the council estates around here. At the end of the day my parent pay over 20k in tax what do we get back out of it a road network and our bins emptied.

    Plus in other countries medicine is a graduate degree, make you wonder if the UK is getting the best doctors or just saving money to spend else where. BTW grads can enter 5year course you know and theirs a very valid arguement that its actually masters level.

    (Original post by im so academic)
    This new system should make people in that position work even harder. Coming from the "sort of town" simply won't be an excuse anymore (in fact, it shouldn't really be). Don't get the grades, don't get in - which is fair enough. Education is free up to 18, so everyone has the opportunity to get the top grades, albeit it's harder at a failing comprehensive school.
    At some comprehensives its impossible if all the content etc isnt covered as basics are gone over again and again so the bottum of the class atleast pass making the school look better. Yet the student isnt told this at the time


    (Original post by im so academic)
    Should be, can't be.

    OK then, where do you propose that the cuts from then?
    I can think of loads of areas
    Prison service - lock them up 2 meals a day maximum of £1 per meal, 3 to a cell, no exercise etc so prison is litterally hell would also drop reoffending rates.
    Unemployment benefit - make it like the states maximum of 99weeks, possibly some cheap labour factories for those that go over the 99 weeks then you arent affecting those trying hard to get a job but getting rid of the lay abouts that dont want to work.
    Building new council homes when they are seen as for life - let the private sector provide it. Such as me as near to me they are pulling down a council block of flats as they arent in a good state of repair then spending tax payers money to rebuild them as houses - im sorry but a roof over your head when you have nothing is enough never mind the standard of it.
    I wouldnt mind seeing a few less traffic warderns it was great when we could afford to keep side streets etc clear for residents but right now we cant.
    To a certin extent NHS spending on unprovenn treatments seen as NICE has gone.
    Normal education - especially for those that disrupt lessons just kick them out

    TBH if i got into goverment id go back to the victorian year and even consider poor houses for the work shy as I 100% cant stand them.

    (Original post by im so academic)
    Surely this is a good thing so there won't be any "academic elitism"?
    Why shouldnt there be tho when they have ineffect produced it for university according to rank so why not subjects.
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    (Original post by ItsaNameAndIUseIt)
    People who want to be educated should be able to be educated.

    And yes, I suppose you could argue that people should have to pay for their education, but we won't JUST be paying for our education at the new rates, we will be paying the country's debt, which will put us in impractical debt before we've even built life foundations.

    How do you get a country out of debt by putting it's residents in debt?

    Of course taxpayers should fund students. They fund the NHS, so why not fund the future doctors? They listen to music, so why not fund the musicians? They read books, so why not fund the novellists?

    I think you get the gist. When we're not even old enough to pay tax from the wage of our part time jobs, we should NOT have to think about life with thousands of pounds worth of debt.

    I want an education. And I WILL be educated.
    Student debt is distinct from other types of debt. The lump sum of student debt really means very little in reality, although that seems counter-intuitive, as that's not how its repaid, which is with affordable monthly repayments, and its hardly going to all be collected on.

    I agree about taxpayer funding. It seems to me that this new system will involve more government expenditure in the short term than simply funding it completely/almost completely, which throws a spanner in the whole 'deficit reduction' explanation.

    But the new system is better than the old, in my view, if you can get past looking at the ballooned figures of debt and consider how it will actually be repaid.

    Everybody should have the opportunity to go to university - and they will - but they need to be serious about it, and of a sufficient academic standard. For me, those are the 3 principles that need to be satisfied with regards to higher education, and I think these policies do so.
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    I can feel the rage directed towards me coming, but still.
    Why is everyone really so upset over the reforms to tuition fees?

    Is it really that difficult to pay £1.72 a week on a £22,000 salary, or £15.58 a week on a £30,000 salary?

    Why are people trying to argue that those who don't have the benefit of a university education should be asked to help pay for those who do?

    It all seems utterly mental to me, and the whole situation seems to have got so far out of hand that nobody is actually looking at the big picture anymore.
    because they are cuting teaching budgets significantly and pushed all the responsibility of funding universities to students so people will pay double/treble amount fees for worse teaching, lower contact time, less resources, lower quality of research etc. Its not just about tutition fees they are completely getting rid of funding for arts and humanities courses forcing certain university arts departments or arts focused colleges to shut down. They are also increasing student loans interest rates from the current 1% to 3%. Plus it doesnt matter if we pay back 0.01p a week its still the same amount of heavy debt on our shoulder for the rest of our life. Also its coz we are all angry that they broke their promises, lied and betrayed to us students, signed a pledge to never increase fees before the election but doing the oposite after the election.

    Why is there people like you who dont look at the bigger picture. Your post seems utterly mental to me!!
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    LOL, also your post count is 911. coincidence of divine message?:iiam:
    Yes my friend you are correct it is a divine message from I, Jesus the destuctor!
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    (Original post by sete)
    Which gets written off anyways. - Now after 30 years rather than 25.

    You failed to address my point on interest rates, why are they using CPI as opposed RPI? Everyone knows CPI is bull****.
    Being a newb here but, what are CPI and RPI interest rates, and what's the difference?

    Cheers!

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    (Original post by Flob)
    On your first point - Yes that's a lot, but its less per month than you would pay now. Granted, for longer, but I would argue its just as affordable on that income as the present system. In fact, I would say this basically amounts to a graduate tax.
    It does, but remember a graduate tax would involve all graduates, including all those who got their education for free.

    (Original post by Flob)
    On your second point - interest will be tapered so that at the lower end of incomes it will be less. For instance, interest at £21,000 is 0%. But the example you've given is accurate as far as I know. Still, as I said, I think its affordable.
    But under the old system we would have actually have been paying our debts back. Under these new interest rates, in most cases we will only be paying the interest and not even the full amount of that, so our debts are getting bigger. At £21,000 you are still being charged RPI which atm is 3.8%, this alone is 2.5 times as much as now (1.5%).


    (Original post by Flob)
    And people on free school meals will be largely exempt also, but those who pay upfront are likely to be penalized, although the details for that aren't out yet.
    So those on free school meals will leave with much less debt, therefore have a much better chance of paying their debt off? Where is the fairness of that?

    (Original post by Flob)
    On your third point - that depends how many charge £9k, which is expected to be a lot. But I would also say that that is the students choice, those with good sense will 'pay' more for a better degree, in my view.
    I suspect all Russell and 1994 will.

    (Original post by Flob)
    And to be honest, all the main parties have form on this - that's not a defense of the Lib Dems - and they're all equally bad in my eyes.
    ALL POLITIONS ARE BAD.
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    (Original post by Bektas)
    Being a newb here but, what are CPI and RPI interest rates, and what's the difference?

    Cheers!

    CPI- Consumer price index.
    RPI- Retail price index.

    Basically they are inflation rates.

    RPI tends to be much higher than CPI.
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    (Original post by Excandersham)
    I live in wales, so it doesn't affect my brothers.

    I'm upset because of the cut in funding and ema removal.

    It's very clear looking at europe that university fees could be much cheaper. We are supposed to be one of the top economies in the world after all.
    Can you tell me more about europe? What are the fees like there, and in what countries?
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    (Original post by bloomblaze)
    Can you tell me more about europe? What are the fees like there, and in what countries?
    It varies.

    A good source is here

    http://www.studyineurope.eu/

    it's not more than 3290 pounds though besides in France for certain unis.

    sorry better link http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees
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    (Original post by Excandersham)
    It varies.

    A good source is here

    http://www.studyineurope.eu/

    it's not more than 3290 pounds though besides in France for certain unis.

    sorry better link http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees
    But that's why, out of the 50 top universities, maybe 3 or 4 are in there from European countries, which aren't the UK? (ninja edit in bold)
    The US, where fee-paying is common, has a fair few of the best universities in the world. Surely this shows us that paying for a degree will lead to a better standard of teaching, with a better standard of facilities? Just look at private schools versus state schools?

    source: http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...s/2010/results
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    (Original post by wibletg)
    But that's why, out of the 50 top universities, maybe 3 or 4 are in there from European countries, which aren't the UK? (ninja edit in bold)
    The US, where fee-paying is common, has a fair few of the best universities in the world. Surely this shows us that paying for a degree will lead to a better standard of teaching, with a better standard of facilities? Just look at private schools versus state schools?

    source: http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...s/2010/results
    That's a big false correlation.

    You assume the only factor is fee paying, without considering other factors.

    Our university standards did not increase exponentially after the increase of tuition fees.

    In fact our top three unis were still competitive when university tuition was not introduced.

    And the finnish public school system is free for high school level and is the top 5 in the world. So no fee requiring schools do not always outperform state schools.


    And those rankings do not compare the academic teaching of the universities. Read the methodology.
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    They are upeset because the Lib Dems lied.
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    (Original post by Excandersham)
    That's a big false correlation.

    You assume the only factor is fee paying, without considering other factors.

    Our university standards did not increase exponentially after the increase of tuition fees.

    In fact our top three unis were still competitive when university tuition was not introduced.

    And the finnish public school system is free for high school level and is the top 5 in the world. So no fee requiring schools do not always outperform state schools.
    Got any sources for your claim that standards didn't increase? As far as I can see, from the site I gave you, UK universities climbed the rankings from 2005 up to now.
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    (Original post by Excandersham)
    I live in wales, so it doesn't affect my brothers.

    I'm upset because of the cut in funding and ema removal.

    It's very clear looking at europe that university fees could be much cheaper. We are supposed to be one of the top economies in the world after all.
    While that is true. The USA is one of the top economies in the world, and their fees exceed ours and will continue to do so even after ours have increased. However nothing is stopping you having free higher education in any other EU country...

    As for EMA removal, I don't agree it should be removed although I do think the system should have been changed to one that doesn't just hand students over money, surely it would work much better (and much more economically) for students on EMA to be given free bus passes, free meals at school/college and free stationary.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    While that is true. The USA is one of the top economies in the world, and their fees exceed ours and will continue to do so even after ours have increased. However nothing is stopping you having free higher education in any other EU country...
    Yes but they could have easily afforded free university fees if they didn't spend an absurd percentage of gdp on the military.


    And if I wasn't in uni now I would have probably gone overseas, but overseas education is not for everyone.
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    (Original post by wibletg)
    Got any sources for your claim that standards didn't increase? As far as I can see, from the site I gave you, UK universities climbed the rankings from 2005 up to now.
    I said exponentially.
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    (Original post by Excandersham)
    I said exponentially.
    Well obviously Universities are not going to feel the immediate benefit of any fees increase, in any system it takes time for changes to be felt?
 
 
 
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