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Harriet Harman showing us why any respectable British person hates Labour.... Watch

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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    She did NOT encourage people to send benefit payments home. Nothing in the reported facts suggests that to be the case.

    She suggested that people should gain tax relief where they send money home to
    -Did suggest people should gain tax relief when they send money home, away from the UK? Yes
    -Do some of the people who send money home claim benefits? Yes
    -Was she aware some of these people are on benefits? Yes

    So she did.....
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    (Original post by future_hopeful_uk)
    You have a credit card which allows you to spend £1 billion pounds..... somebody sees you have £1 billion-worth of goods and thinks you're a billionaire.

    What they dont realise is that your material wealth was bought on borrowed money........

    Britain isnt wealthy, its living on borrowed debt.
    Yes I know this, but in terms of national GDP and standard of living, you cannot say that we have it bad. Which is what you were trying to imply when saying we need the money.

    We may not actually have 'real' money, but we are still a massive economic force, and are able to help poorer countries that need the money. It would be immoral not to when we have the capability.
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    Have I misunderstood by reading what Harriet Harman was suggesting as this country should make it easier for people from the third world to sent back money to where they came from in order to help lift them out of poverty, of which she used the example of benifits these people ARE ENTITLED to being sent home as a demonstraton of the level of their selflessness?
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    Her qualified defence is brilliant:

    ‘There are many people in my constituency who come from Africa and work and study and bring up their families here. Many of them also send money back to their village in their country of origin. We should respect and encourage that. International development is not just something done by governments.
    How can you work and study and be living off British taxpayer's money/heroically sending it to foreign countries.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    Some of your views seem to border on racism, when you claim 'people come over here and claim our benefits'. Our country may be in a bad way, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to deprive people of the benefits they and their family need.
    Explain to me, like the person you quoted mentioned- why do they travel through 10 countries to get to the UK?

    If you can't explain that then you've lost the plot....
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    Their governments are frequently corrupt (which is not the fault of the average citizen), and even if they aren't, many are simply incapable of providing the necessary aid because of economic stagnation. People in this country get all defensive when we have a recession... don't you realise that our economic problems are miniscule in comparison with most African, Asian and South American countries?

    I have a barrel load of work to finish tonight, so I'm going to have to hang up my debating boots for the evening. I encourage you to think about the morality of your own argument. What would you suggest, to stop giving benefits to immigrants? To prevent them sending money abroad to help those who are truly in need?
    That's not my fault either that their governments are corrupt though, is it?

    Ah, fair play, good luck with finishing it! :P

    I'd suggest we make it so that people coming here get English lessons so they're at least literate when they're allowed to stay and therefore can get a job, and that they have to work...when they work for their money, they can do whatever they want with it.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That's exactly how you decide to have children. What the hell? You don't have more children than you can afford...that's how it works. Your suggestion is we let everyone pop out as many kids as possible and make the taxpayer pay for their irresponsible actions? :lolwut:
    No I'm not suggesting that, but not being able to have children at all and not have some form of help is a different story. I wouldn't want someone who really want children or need them(in milkytea's scenario) but for some reason not being able to provide, to be strip away from ever having children.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    and are able to help poorer countries that need the money
    Why don't they help themselves first by not having as many kids they cannot afford?

    These children arent used on farming, we're talking about villages where they sit around and starve. How can parents see having children knowing they arent going to be producing anything as productive??

    They should help themselves first before asking other for help.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    How do my views border on racism? Saying that some people come over to claim benefits, when it's a fact that some do, is not racist. It's factually correct. The same way that some British people cheat the system. My views are the same towards scroungers, whatever nationality they may be.

    I accept that not everyone living on benefits is living the high life, but if it's so awful, they could always, y'know, get a job? They don't "need" benefits. I wouldn't deprive anyone of what their family needs, more encourage them to support themselves. They cannot rely on the state.
    Do you think we live in some golden utopia where there are endless jobs and chances for the poor people on benefits to make loads of money and become better people? In the current climate jobs are very rare, so people can't just, y'know, get a job. It's not that easy. And not everyone is fully qualified to be able to just get a good job. Benefits help provide a chance for people to further their standard of life, and even if it does not lead to one generation increasing socially, their children will have the wherewithal to do better, due to the money they're given. Benefits are there to support themselves. What was there before a benefit system? An incredibly unfair society, with millions in poverty and unable to make a better life. Benefits have undoubtedly improved the life of so many people.
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    (Original post by The Cornerstone)
    No I'm not suggesting that, but not being able to have children at all and not have some form of help is a different story. I wouldn't want someone who really want children or need them(in milkytea's scenario) but for some reason not being able to provide, to be strip away from ever having children.
    I can understand that, and I'm not saying people shouldn't be helped out at all, but to subsidise people per child is ridiculous.
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    34 posts in before someone called "racist!" i.e. TSR Racism, not too bad for TSR.
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    (Original post by future_hopeful_uk)
    Explain to me, like the person you quoted mentioned- why do they travel through 10 countries to get to the UK?

    If you can't explain that then you've lost the plot....
    As the UK has a better standard of living and more welcoming than other countries. I am proud that people want to live in our nation, to better their lives. Our economic power and strength as a nation make me proud, and I feel proud that we can share it with other immigrants.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    Do you think we live in some golden utopia where there are endless jobs and chances for the poor people on benefits to make loads of money and become better people? In the current climate jobs are very rare, so people can't just, y'know, get a job. It's not that easy. And not everyone is fully qualified to be able to just get a good job. Benefits help provide a chance for people to further their standard of life, and even if it does not lead to one generation increasing socially, their children will have the wherewithal to do better, due to the money they're given. Benefits are there to support themselves. What was there before a benefit system? An incredibly unfair society, with millions in poverty and unable to make a better life. Benefits have undoubtedly improved the life of so many people.
    No, I don't believe that. I do believe, however, that plenty of people stay on benefits for the freebies they get, e.g healthcare, dental care, free dinners for their children, etc. Also, people claiming ridiculous amounts on housing benefits just so they can live in wealthier areas - completely unnecessary.

    I realise everyone is not fully qualified, which is why I suggested that immigrants should have English lessons and be literate before they can live here. Also, what would be wrong with us employing a system similar to Australia, where you come here if you can word?

    What was there before the benefit system? Pride, motivation, and the drive to succeed. Instead of the generation of dole riders we currently have.
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    (Original post by This Is Not A Username)
    I probably wouldn't do a very good job of explaining why this article is a load of *******s, so I'll just direct you here:

    http://www.butireaditinthepaper.co.u...ut-immigrants/

    I think that just about covers it.

    (Original post by future_hopeful_uk)
    -Did suggest people should gain tax relief when they send money home, away from the UK? Yes
    -Do some of the people who send money home claim benefits? Yes
    -Was she aware some of these people are on benefits? Yes

    So she did.....

    You and everyone else in here might actually want to read this quote article. Gives a different spin on what the Daily Mail said.
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    (Original post by future_hopeful_uk)
    Why don't they help themselves first by not having as many kids they cannot afford?

    These children arent used on farming, we're talking about villages where they sit around and starve. How can parents see having children knowing they arent going to be producing anything as productive??

    They should help themselves first before asking other for help.
    That is a disgusting and stereotypical view. Yes, why don't they all just sit around and wait to die? Not having children will mean the nation basically collapses, and it'll turn into a wasteland. Sounds great, doesn't it? No, maybe they can have children in the hope that they'll be able to help increase the longevity of the nation. To have the children in the first place, they must have once been children, RIGHT? My understanding of the reproductive system seems to think that. So THEY survived. Why can't their children? I am proud to be a part of a nation that helps decrease poverty in the world.
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    So British people that live on benefits and are unemployed don't live in ghettos, then? You seem frighteningly xenophobic. My point was that in 20 or 30 years time either the immigrants or their children will be able to become perfectly equal citizens with good jobs, and pay tax. You also seem to think that most or all immigrants fail to find work, which is a large oversight.

    Generation after generation is groundless... most immigrant's children get good jobs, even if their parents can't.

    You have to remember that first generation immigrants lack qualifications, experience and sometimes fluent English. That's not their fault.
    I think you are missing the point amidst the "OMGZ racist" hysteria. Britain is facing a time of austerity(relative as it is to the plight of other countries), and is being forced to tighten what it spends on its citizens. To encourage those who simply use a system that is intended to help Britain to send the money elsewhere does not help Britain. Just because Britain is rich today does not mean it can encourage throwing away money abroad with no long term benefits (which is why Cameron has ring-fenced international aid, because it helps Britain politically with developing countries and opens their markets), especially when it is facing so much debt. This is not about racism or xenophobia, it is simple financial prudence.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    No, I don't believe that. I do believe, however, that plenty of people stay on benefits for the freebies they get, e.g healthcare, dental care, free dinners for their children, etc. Also, people claiming ridiculous amounts on housing benefits just so they can live in wealthier areas - completely unnecessary.

    I realise everyone is not fully qualified, which is why I suggested that immigrants should have English lessons and be literate before they can live here. Also, what would be wrong with us employing a system similar to Australia, where you come here if you can word?

    What was there before the benefit system? Pride, motivation, and the drive to succeed. Instead of the generation of dole riders we currently have.
    I don't even know if I want to reply, your ignorance is making me so angry. Where shall they have their English lessons then? Maybe the people coming from poverty who don't have an education will be able to go to their local college...oh wait, it may not exist, be open or to them or they may not be able to afford them. Yes, that's why they come here!

    Before the benefit system, yes, there were those things. FOR THE UPPER CLASSES. If you're trying to tell me that the people in poverty were proud and motivated, you are an idiot. They lived in squalor and had to accept they had no chance. There was little education, and no chance of social mobility.
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    So what you're basically saying is ... "Harriet Harman showing us why any respectable British person irrationally and unequivocally hates [Whatever]" ... how respectable

    I don't think anybody respectable unequivocally hates anything to be honest. I'm not a Labour voter, and I can't see myself voting for them anytime soon, but to unequivocally hate anything is a tad irrational, is it not?

    As for the story, I really don't see it as that controversial to be honest. It's basically how the free market works, shockingly enough.
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    (Original post by future_hopeful_uk)
    Apologies for DM, but if any other newspaper had reported it i would have used their link.
    i love how the powerful left-wing lobby has convinced vulnerable people like you and just about the whole country that the daily mail is a bad thing, theyre just scared of it coz it tells it as it is.

    seriously the lefty propaganda bull***t has too much influence.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    As the UK has a better standard of living
    Better standard of living than France and Germany, you sure?

    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    and more welcoming than other countries
    in terms of how much benefit money we throw at them? Give them a free 100,000 pound house?
 
 
 
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