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    (Original post by amsie/)
    i very much doubt that if we stop ****ing about with them, why would they attack us. wouldn't iran or north korea have attacked by now
    the fact is that western countries are opressing these countries- if they want to enrich uranium & stuff who are we to stop them seeing as we do it too
    Oh I agree with you, but there are a small, but significant, hardcore minority who would still seek to carry out terrorist attacks no matter how non-interventionist our foreign policy.
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    (Original post by spazman21)
    I'm sorry, but, where do you get this **** from?? Do you have anything to back-up these ludicrous claims??

    I think the only thing you could be reffering to are the Crusades, and if that's the case, then you really need to get over yourself.
    Go read history. The British colonialists who invaded the former Ottoman empire (modern Middle East) and even gave Palestine (formerly Arab Muslim) to the Jews!

    Also check this article out (We'll bomb you to the Stone Age, US told Pakistan)

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle647188.ece
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    (Original post by sandys1000)
    Oh I agree with you, but there are a small, but significant, hardcore minority who would still seek to carry out terrorist attacks no matter how non-interventionist our foreign policy.
    just like the ku klux klan- there'll always be haters
    at the end of the day people should be allowed to live where they're comfortable
    without living in fear of getting bombed or lynched,
    i just hope that people realise that extremism isn't common and education would help eradicate it, in western society as well as eastern
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    Some people just don't get it..

    These terrorists don't hate and attack us for our way of living, because we have women in the workplace or gay marriages or Budweiser. Nobody kills himself, because some Westerners are doing certain acts they consider to be "wrong". They hate and attack us simply because of our imperialistic intervention in their world, which they perceive to be an attack on their religion.
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    (Original post by sandys1000)
    It might reduce terrorism, but it wouldn't be stopped. Some people object to the very existence of western society and will always seek to destroy it.
    yes although I would say part of it is bitterness or hatred being passed down family lines. I agree with those that say we shouldn't have gone in, we're not the world police, we like to think we still have our Empire for some reason, we don't even have aircraft carriers now. Although it might not stop terrorism it will at least give them no excuse, and no possibility of sympathy/support from Muslims living here(not saying many support violence, but they might at least relate to the feelings of anger).

    I wont lie, if a much more powerful group of nations occupied Britain, tried to change the way we lived, our political system etc. If they bombed villages to hit one target, if they "accidentally" blew up people I knew week after week, their little apologies would mean nothing. I would despise them...I'm not a violent person so honestly I doubt I'd retaliate unless say my Mother was killed by one of their soldiers, in which case I'd grab the nearest firearm and give them a taste of my rage. However some people are much more aggressive by nature and may want to target the innocent populations of these invading nations, an eye for an eye and as they themselves say, they don't consider us innocent as we don't rise up and make our governments withdraw our troops.

    Democracy isn't going to work everywhere, places which have been tribal for 1000's of years aren't going to become another democratic capitalist state in a decade, maybe they never truly will. We should keep our noses out of other countries, especially in these economic times. Fix our own problems at home first. If there are genocides in other nations then yes we must help those who are suffering but we can't go rushing in on America's beck and call, these things need much more planning and local understanding.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Again, a reminder to people; keep it civil please. The atmosphere in this thread is already heating up - there's no need for it to boil over into a shouting match, when we can debate this topic in a calm manner.
    I have seen far worse threads! They were not banned.

    I know I am being paranoid but my last post (perfectly calm and reasonable but slightly controversial) was banned for no reason what so ever.
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    (Original post by Jim Pansen)
    Some people just don't get it..

    These terrorists don't hate and attack us for our way of living, because we have women in the workplace or gay marriages or Budweiser. Nobody kills himself, because some Westerners are doing certain acts they consider to be "wrong". They hate and attack us simply because of our imperialistic intervention in their world, which they perceive to be an attack on their religion.
    Once again, "they" dont attack us. Terrorist attacks followed by continous brainwashing that "muslims"( the people who live in oil rich lands) are all terrorists and we need to kill them before they kill us. Are the best ways to start a war. Do you think if the US/Uk wants oil theyre going to just invade. Hell No. Do you think the governments of both countries are nice kind people who would never consider such a thing?
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Go read history. The British colonialists who invaded the former Ottoman empire (modern Middle East) and even gave Palestine (formerly Arab Muslim) to the Jews!

    Also check this article out (We'll bomb you to the Stone Age, US told Pakistan)

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle647188.ece

    So, you proved my point? You're hung up about something that happened 100's of years ago...

    And that article you posted proved my original point... that there was little "original provocation" on the West's part.


    But, above all, I'm a pacifist. I don't condone violent retaliation of any kind. However, I certainly don't acquisce are lacklustre, ignorant, sensationalist arguments.


    Edit: By the way the Ottoman Empire wasn't solely made up of Muslims. So, don't think about playing that card.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...Ottoman_Empire
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    (Original post by sandys1000)
    It might reduce terrorism, but it wouldn't be stopped. Some people object to the very existence of western society and will always seek to destroy it.
    Men will agree with you, women will disagree.
    Being a man, I agree.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    I have seen far worse threads! They were not banned.

    I know I am being paranoid but my last post (perfectly calm and reasonable but slightly controversial) was banned for no reason what so ever.
    Did you report them?

    The only reason why I'm in here is because I saw the thread pop up in my recent discussions and thought I better take a look. I'm not omnipresent, though; the majority of modding actions we take are reactive - i.e. someone's reported content to us, rather than us proactively moderating (which is impossible on a site this large).
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    as if there is any justification to kill innocent people
    Look at the threads about the Collateral Murder video and you'll see plenty of justification.
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    (Original post by spazman21)
    So, you proved my point? You're hung up about something that happened 100's of years ago...

    And that article you posted proved my original point... that there was little "original provocation" on the West's part.


    But, above all, I'm a pacifist. I don't condone violent retaliation of any kind. However, I certainly don't acquisce are lacklustre, ignorant, sensationalist arguments.


    Edit: By the way the Ottoman Empire wasn't solely made up of Muslims. So, don't think about playing that card.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...Ottoman_Empire
    The effects are still being felt today so you can't just dismiss it as "something that happened hundreds of years ago", an example is that it was European powers who split up the Ottoman empire (an Islamic empire, even though there were Christians and Jews living in it) into many countries and the European powers were the ones who drew the borders.

    And besides, the Americans and British have slaughtered thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians. So if you are a pacifist how can you support them? Answer: You are not a pacifist.
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    Look at the threads about the Collateral Murder video and you'll see plenty of justification.
    they were perceived to be a threat to the soldiers. they did not see a group of civilians and then try to find an excuse to kill them.
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    The war on terror is the biggest joke ever.We all know who are the terrorists.9/11 worked perfectly for the us goverment.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Is to stop terrorising people! The ignorance on TSR and western society in general is appaling.

    I hope you people know that the Americans have been playing boss in the Middle East for the past two decaded. They have even been installing military bases in most Middle Eastern countries through intimidation and threats. History did not start from 9/11! The people in the Middle East are sick of being invaded and opressed by European powers. As I am sure Europeans and Americans would be if another people invaded and terrorised them. Also when American invaded Iraq and Afghanistan they slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and ruined the lives of millions. So who is the real terrorist now? 3000 people died on 9/11 and 50 died in 7/7. More than 300,000 died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you people call the Muslims terrorists?

    Hasn't Wikileaks taught you a thing or two about the "honesty" of your governments? Yet you continue to put your trust in them? Hasn't Wikileaks taught you just how much free speech really is valued in the West?

    Why would people risk their lives to fight and kill modern armies. If you stopped killing them and stealing from them people would leave you alone you know! There is only one way to end terrorism. STOP INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES, KILLING THEIR PEOPLE AND STEALING THEIR RESOURCES.

    p.s, Moderators, if you close my thread just because of my opinion then you truly are spineless cowards.
    Best post ever imo. Very well said.

    I don't blame the terrorists for all the attacks that taken place across the world, I blame the Western and Muslim puppet governments. Governements such as the the Saudi's and the DOG that is Mohamed Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. But they're all up the West's ass all time supporting the choas and destruction of Iraq, Afganistan and Palestine.
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    they were perceived to be a threat to the soldiers. they did not see a group of civilians and then try to find an excuse to kill them.
    O RLY? That's your argument, and exactly what I was talking about. You said: "as if there is any justification to kill innocent people". The people shot dead in the video were innocent and they were killed, you have provided a justification for it. Contradiction brah.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Is to stop terrorising people! The ignorance on TSR and western society in general is appaling.

    I hope you people know that the Americans have been playing boss in the Middle East for the past two decaded. They have even been installing military bases in most Middle Eastern countries through intimidation and threats. History did not start from 9/11! The people in the Middle East are sick of being invaded and opressed by European powers. As I am sure Europeans and Americans would be if another people invaded and terrorised them. Also when American invaded Iraq and Afghanistan they slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and ruined the lives of millions. So who is the real terrorist now? 3000 people died on 9/11 and 50 died in 7/7. More than 300,000 died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you people call the Muslims terrorists?

    Hasn't Wikileaks taught you a thing or two about the "honesty" of your governments? Yet you continue to put your trust in them? Hasn't Wikileaks taught you just how much free speech really is valued in the West?

    Why would people risk their lives to fight and kill modern armies. If you stopped killing them and stealing from them people would leave you alone you know! There is only one way to end terrorism. STOP INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES, KILLING THEIR PEOPLE AND STEALING THEIR RESOURCES.

    p.s, Moderators, if you close my thread just because of my opinion then you truly are spineless cowards.

    If your so smart, tell me why the afghan president himself praised the job of the NATO? why are muslim terrorists blowing their own cities up? why are some people in middle east supporting and praising the work done by NATO?

    Edit: Do you ever count how many innocent civilians 'your' people have killed and are killing on daily basis?
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    (Original post by amsie/)
    i very much doubt that if we stop ****ing about with them, why would they attack us. wouldn't iran or north korea have attacked by now
    the fact is that western countries are opressing these countries- if they want to enrich uranium & stuff who are we to stop them seeing as we do it too
    Err... The problem is much wider than the US/EU simply being in the Middle East
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    (Original post by NGC773)
    Err... The problem is much wider than the US/EU simply being in the Middle East, dont be so short sighted
    i get that- i'm just saying there should be more effort in trying to ease the tension & i know that there's been terrorism and war for ages before 9/11
    there's always a minority that's marginalised, atm it's muslims aswell
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    (Original post by Swimmer)
    If your so smart, tell me why the afghan president himself praised the job of the NATO? why are muslim terrorists blowing their own cities up? why are some people in middle east supporting and praising the work done by NATO?

    Edit: Do you ever count how many innocent civilians 'your' people have killed and are killing on daily basis?
    The Afghan president is a joke and is not even democratically elected (not truly). When terrorists blow their own cities up, its normally because they are trying to kill some soldiers who have been killing their people. Who are these some people? You mean corrupt dictators who are not representative of their people?

    If you do not know what you are talking about there is no point in arguing in the first place my little friend.
 
 
 
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