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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    No there isn't. Patriotism is the emotional application of nationalism.
    No it's not. Nationalism is an extreme form of patriotism.

    Nationalism - the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.


    You can be patriotic and still be entirely seperate from that definition. Just because I identify with and admire Winston Churchill and feel he's the personification of the British never die spirit does not mean I'm asserting any kind of nationalism. Nor does it mean I'm belittling any other group of people, I can think Churchill is great and admire him at the same time I can read Rousseau and consider him a part of a great French tradition of philosophy.

    That's not what nationalism is :hmmm: If you don't know what nationalism is, you shouldn't get into a conversation about it. Nationality is not the same as ethnicity. I.e. I may be ethnically South-asian, but my nationality is British.
    In Europe nationality is very often tied up with ethnicity considering we all live in ethnic-nation states. It's only been post WW2 with massive immigration from former European colonies that European countries have developed a non-native population. Before WW2 to be British largely meant to be English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish (always very much debated, often the Irish were the victim of Anglo-Scottish nationalism) and was tied up explicitly with that.

    This is nationalism:

    Definitions of nationalism on the Web:

    - patriotism: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it; "they rode the same wave of popular patriotism"; "British nationalism was in the air and patriotic sentiments ran high"
    - the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other
    - the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination
    - the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals


    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...G=Search&meta=

    Note: the use of the word PATRIOTISM, in the definition of NATIONALISM :facepalm:
    Erm yes because as I said patriotism and nationalism are linked. Nationalism is literally an extreme virilent form of patriotism.
    You've got your definitions mixed up, and hence can't make a coherent argument. Reply once you've bought yourself a dictionary.
    Jesus Christ get off your high horse. Your argument is the one lacking coherance as you've obviously had little experience with the political definition of the two. Go and read an introductory volume on political theory and see how it explicitly defines the difference between patriotism and nationalism, then come back and tell me I can't form a coherant argument.

    Which is exactly what nationalism is. Whilst I can not in any way dictate other people's views, I find nationalism, and it's emotional execution, a truly abhorrent thing.
    You don't say, I would never have guessed your position on the issue from your previous paragraphs wittering on about how evil patriotism is. I'm not surprised you're not patriotic either, being an immigrant from another country (or descended from relatively recent immigrants) makes it hard to be. I bet that you have favourable views of yours/your parents/your grandparent's home country though, it's culture and it's traditions and that's a mild form of patriotism at the very least. Even if you don't like it, it's there. The preference for your native culture's social norms is mild patriotism, just not explicitly shown.

    None of which have anything to do with you personally. Needless pride is the precursor to racism, national superiority, and xenophobia. Whilst you may disagree with me, I find it laughable that your sense of self comes from the achievements of others which have nothing to do with you. You didn't earn your nationality, you didn't work for your nationality, you did nothing more to attain your British nationality than you did your race or your parents income and those are equally abhorrent to be proud of. I find your 'patriotism' rather pathetic to be quite honest.
    Most ethnic Englishmen have a common ancestor if you go back as far as Edward III. So if you say that these achievements have nothing to do with myself that's quite wrong. The community of the nation is an important point. We're all related in an abstract way and are much closer in blood, culture and society than say with the French or the Germans.

    If I wanted to make this a bit clearer: my great x3 grandfather fought in the Anglo-Sudanese Wars. He then came home and probably told stories of this to his son and shaped his son's thoughts on life and actions. This son would then go on to teach his son and his life experiences (along with his father's which have been passed down to him) would have shaped the way he looked after and taught his son and so on until it reaches myself. My upbringing is the result of a culmulative cycle of my ancestor's experiences in life and how they used them to teach their children. You may say that the achievements of people in the past have nothing to do with me but that's utterly wrong. The actions of the past and their effects have subtly shaped the people who subtly shaped me. I am the product of the people that went before. I am British because of the past experience of the British people and my ancestors. In this way I can feel a patriotism and connection to say the war in the Sudan despite not having been born until nearly a century after it.

    As for saying I didn't 'learn' my nationality. Quite utterly wrong. The whole school system is imbued with British political thought, social thought and historical trends. What you learn in school and university fills you with the dominant ideas of your society and turns you into a citizen that largely follows those norms. That's why by and large people from different countries have different views and thoughts upon subjects because they come from different cultures and have been taught in different ways.

    Like I say you probably find it hard to associate with this because of your immigrant background. Nothing wrong with that but it makes it hard to be patriotic to something you only half associate with. If I moved to Australia, which I consider from time to time, I don't think I'd ever be a patriotic Aussie because I'm an outsider.
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    Might've preferred to be brought up in a developing superpower e.g. USA/ China/ India instead of a dwindling one... But I feel lucky to have been educated in a country specialising in education, so yeah pretty proud to be British.
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      (Original post by jaydoh)
      I know you shouldn't be proud of where you happened to be born, but since there's no changing it you may as well embrace the fact and show some national pride. I don't particularly like the Royals but it's nice to see the show of national pride for royal birthdays, weddings and the likes.

      So are you proud to be British?
      Who the Dickens said you shouldn't be proud of where you were born? Your nationality is a part of who you are!

      Of course, I'm proud to be English. I have never and will never think of myself as British. My family settled in England long before there even was a Britain.
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      Proud to British. Yes I am. Sure as hell. We have quite the rich heritage. Im proud to be Dominican too. NOT the Dominican Republic it is the COMMONWEALTH of Dominica. See link below:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DominicaCommonwealth of Dominica Wikipedia Page
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      (Original post by G8D)
      If people are allowed to be proud about being black or gay or any other thing they have no control over then damn right I'm going to be proud of being white, Scottish, straight and maybe even British to an extent.
      Obviously they are allowed to feel proud of anything they want, but just because people are proud of stupid things doesn't mean you should feel compelled (as it sounds) to join them in the idiotic pursuit of being proud of things such as being white, Scottish, straight and British lol. :erm:

      (Original post by House of Jonny)
      Proud to British. Yes I am. Sure as hell. We have quite the rich heritage. Im proud to be Dominican too. NOT the Dominican Republic it is the COMMONWEALTH of Dominica. See link below:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DominicaCommonwealth of Dominica Wikipedia Page
      Sick house bro. :cool:
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      (Original post by S129439)
      I'm proud to be English, but not British. For me they represent different things.
      Such as?
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      (Original post by L i b)
      Not "proud" as such - as far as I'm concerned, pride is a negative thing: one of the seven deadly sins, no less. But yes, I'm very attached to Britain, Scotland, the city I live in, the county I grew up in, all that jazz.



      Well, you're British then. Have a look at your passport.
      My passport says British but ethnically speaking I'm not am I, that's what indigenous Brits would say. Is this what the OP is getting at?
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      (Original post by devils18)
      My passport says British but ethnically speaking I'm not am I, that's what indigenous Brits would say. Is this what the OP is getting at?
      British is a nationality. English, Scottish, Welsh (and so on) are ethnicities.
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      It never crosses my mind.
      • Reporter Team
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      proud? not particularly.

      Incidentally I wasn't born in England anyway lol. I'm British though via my mam (who was born in England) - I have a British passport and all......

      I think Britain is rapidly losing its identity anyway really, which is a shame, but there we have it.
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      (Original post by devils18)
      My passport says British but ethnically speaking I'm not am I, that's what indigenous Brits would say. Is this what the OP is getting at?
      Not really. Britishness was always a construct to bring together English and Scottish ethnicities into one. Over the time it has expanded and taken in new communities, just like the concept of being 'American' has. I don't think people would dispute you were British (aside from racists). It is hard to claim you're English though, because a) English isn't a nationality and b) it's an ethnicity seperate from the nationality which is British.
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      (Original post by DJkG.1)



      Sick house bro. :cool:
      Thanks. You can come if you want +1. Guest MUST be female. Pool and Jacussi's are inside. Bathing Suit not required. (Female Only)
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      I don't really care for national pride :/
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      Proud that we supply the world with the best music and comedy and the British way in general.

      Not proud to a nationalist level though, more happy i guess.
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      (Original post by ajp100688)
      Not really. Britishness was always a construct to bring together English and Scottish ethnicities into one. Over the time it has expanded and taken in new communities, just like the concept of being 'American' has. I don't think people would dispute you were British (aside from racists). It is hard to claim you're English though, because a) English isn't a nationality and b) it's an ethnicity seperate from the nationality which is British.
      Right, understood.

      I can support England right?
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      (Original post by G8D)
      I never said I was compelled to or that I pursued it. In fact it rarely crosses my mind outside of comparisons.

      I was more drawing attention to the idiotic pursuit of others and the seeming lack of support for non-minorities to be proud of uncontrollable things such as race/country born to/sexuality.

      ":erm:"
      I think for minority groups the pride is more to do with the fight whichever community has had to gain a level playing field. Whereas, being White, British and Straight means you were always going to be sitting pretty. And probably more likely to participate in screwing each other over in the rat race than fighting for a common cause...
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      I am happy to be British, I am not proud of being British because I didn't achieve Britishness.
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      (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
      British is a nationality. English, Scottish, Welsh (and so on) are ethnicities.
      That's a huge matter of opinion, don't say it like it's fact. There are a hell of a lot of people, including me, who would class their nationality as being Welsh, English, etc. What about people who would say their nationality is Catalan? Tell them they are Spanish and they'll probably smack you in the face.
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      Yes I am proud of plopping out my mom's vagina. I did it like a pro :hmmm:
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      (Original post by G8D)
      So essentially playing the discrimination card and assuming it makes them part of some community :erm:
      Eh, no. Try again.
     
     
     
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