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    (Original post by Mess.)
    Dudek at the top of his game didn't mean he was any good.
    Garcia was incredibly hit and miss.
    Alonso was brought in by Benitez.
    My thoughts exactly.

    Benitez has his strengths but also has some weaknesses. People need to acknowledge his weaknesses without disregarding his strengths.

    As for the sacking "back me or sack me" wasn't the wisest thing to say to a powerful owner. Especially one with a reputation like Massimo Moratti
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    Back to waiting in spanish restaurants for him then...

    Any time he manages, even if it's a really high quality one just starts to suck and lose an unusually high level of games, he completely fcked over Liverpool last season and Inter have been a bit screwed over now. He's like an unintentional ruin-man, he's likeable but just awful
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    (Original post by Mess.)
    Dudek at the top of his game didn't mean he was any good.
    Garcia was incredibly hit and miss.
    Alonso was brought in by Benitez.
    Dudek has been nominated for goal keeper of the year twice, when he is bad he is really bad, but he does....did pull of some amazing reflex saves. He pretty much won the CL final. Two amazing back to back saves right near the end, and then the shootout. He wasn't league keeper, but Liverpool haven't been a league team for a while. Alonso being brought in by Benitez doesn't mean anything, the point is he is a good player. Hit and miss doesn't matter in knockout competitions, thats one of the main things that undermines any cup glory unless it comes simultaneously with success or very close to, in the league.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Via a medium or? This one sentence renders the rest of your post null and void.
    Sorry it was early.

    What I meant was united legends e.g. Sir Bobby Charlton will play a role in selection.

    You can claim the rest of my post is null and void because of that one mistake but it's not. Google every point I made and you will find articles relating to them.
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    (Original post by Complex Simplicity)
    My thoughts exactly.

    Benitez has his strengths but also has some weaknesses. People need to acknowledge his weaknesses without disregarding his strengths.

    As for the sacking "back me or sack me" wasn't the wisest thing to say to a powerful owner. Especially one with a reputation like Massimo Moratti
    I have no intention of having a reasonable debate with people who claim he is a "****" manager or "just awful" etc.

    They're just stupid comments, plain and simple. I know he has weakness, His record doesn't compare as favourably to Ferguson or Mourinho and he has had a torrid 18 months but when I see such comments I'm not arsed in balance, I'm gonna defend the man.

    Absolutely agree. Spot on. I'm a liverpool fan and I was so glad that Rafa left us. He took us to 7th place for goodness sake!!! I predicted that would happen years ago but the support from the deluded 'In Rafa We Trust' bridgade meant he stayed at the club for longer.

    Seriously, Rafa was crap. It was thanks to Gerrard 4 winning the FA cup for LFC (we were closing to getting beat by West Ham b4 Gerrard banged that 30 yarder), not Rafa. Against AC milan, it was his tactics that got us down at half-time 3-0 in the first place, yet he's hailed as some brilliant tactician. If not for Gerrard scoring a great header and diving to give us a penalty, Rafa won't be recognised as anything special.

    He bought a lot of rubbish players and fell out with many of them. He fell out with the owners, who actually gave him money (£289m). I know he recouped some money back but that was because the majority of players he bought were crap. He played too defensively and that cost us the PL cos' we drew to the likes of Stoke, Fulham and West Ham. He didn't play people in their right positions (Kuyt as a winger).
    His falling out with players caused the likes of Alonso, Riise etc to leave the club.

    I don't mind if LFC fans appreciate Rafa being manager when we won the CL but how can any of them say Rafa is one of the best managers in the world? The In Rafa we trust bridgade are some of the most blind, deluded, ignorant & thick fans I've ever come across so far in my life. There always an excuse when he makes a mistake. It's never his fault.
    You predicted it "years ago"? Like 1 year before when we finished 2nd? Or two years before when we went to Athens?

    Do you go the game?

    Rafa won't be regarded as anything special? The man who won us the 5th European cup? Gave me a handful of unbelievable european nights and the belief that stormed through the veins of every scouser at Fulham in 2009?

    HAHAHA. I will be talking about Istanbul for decades and decades to come.

    Jog on lad. You are clueless.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I'm not saying there were Barca, but they had keeper who was playing pretty much at the top of his game, a defensive which was solid if not quite world class, importantly a bloody good midfield, Garcia scored some very important goals, Gerrard and Alonso are both world class, few teams are going to control that area, and Riise who is a definitely a solid squad player, the strike force wasn't amazing, but they have some pretty good service from the midfield. I would say that team is quarter final material without having to pull out many tactical gems.
    While I agree with you, under Houllier we were quite crap in Europe. And Alonso and Garcia were brought in by Benitez.

    Should of kept Garcia and Xabi. :sad:
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    (Original post by aja89)
    Maybe Blackburn will throw him a bone.
    I think even they are trying to hold him back for at least until the end of the season.
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    Anyone who attempts to make a european cup winning manager out to be '****' or 'an idiot', only results in making themselves look like an absolute clueless sky brainwashed tit.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Absolutely agree. Spot on. I'm a liverpool fan and I was so glad that Rafa left us. He took us to 7th place for goodness sake!!! I predicted that would happen years ago but the support from the deluded 'In Rafa We Trust' bridgade meant he stayed at the club for longer.

    Seriously, Rafa was crap. It was thanks to Gerrard 4 winning the FA cup for LFC (we were closing to getting beat by West Ham b4 Gerrard banged that 30 yarder), not Rafa. Against AC milan, it was his tactics that got us down at half-time 3-0 in the first place, yet he's hailed as some brilliant tactician. If not for Gerrard scoring a great header and diving to give us a penalty, Rafa won't be recognised as anything special.

    He bought a lot of rubbish players and fell out with many of them. He fell out with the owners, who actually gave him money (£289m). I know he recouped some money back but that was because the majority of players he bought were crap. He played too defensively and that cost us the PL cos' we drew to the likes of Stoke, Fulham and West Ham. He didn't play people in their right positions (Kuyt as a winger).
    His falling out with players caused the likes of Alonso, Riise etc to leave the club.

    I don't mind if LFC fans appreciate Rafa being manager when we won the CL but how can any of them say Rafa is one of the best managers in the world? The In Rafa we trust bridgade are some of the most blind, deluded, ignorant & thick fans I've ever come across so far in my life. There always an excuse when he makes a mistake. It's never his fault.
    How often do you go the game. Serious question, don't try and worm out of it by going off on a different tangent.

    And the reason we didn't win the league in 08/09 wasn't to do with Rafas defensivness or his rant but to do with the fact United went an absolute ridiculous number of games without conceeding a clean sheet and grinding out a **** load of 1-0s.

    It's amusing how much hatred their is for a man who gave you the best night you'll ever experience in your lifetime.
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    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    Any time he manages, even if it's a really high quality one just starts to suck and lose an unusually high level of games,
    You mean like the unusually high two in 08/09, or the 11 last season (Hodgson has lost 7 already with the same team).

    I mean ****ing hell, some of you are acting like Rafa shagged your mum up the arse and posted it on redtube
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    (Original post by DontBuyTheSun)
    You mean like the unusually high two in 08/09, or the 11 last season (Hodgson has lost 7 already with the same team).

    I mean ****ing hell, some of you are acting like Rafa shagged your mum up the arse and posted it on redtube
    Well if we're to talk about the past 2 seasons, he's been very inconsistent as a manager and has led Liverpool to ruin last season... I don't know if I could say outright that he's just a bad manager, maybe he's just incredibly unlucky

    or it's just a random coincidence that in recent years teams Rafa manages tend to do badly :iiam:

    Course it's nothing personal against him, he's endearing. He's like the underdog that got a great job but just messed it up, he's not a complete failure buut his recent track record doesn't back him up

    You'd say Rafa's a good manager?
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    He might do a lot of work for charity so fair play to him if thats the case but in interviews I think he comes across as a very arrogant man. I dont know who he thinks he was making demands for transfer funds at Inter. Although I accept that Mourinho is a very hard act to follow, the current Inter team is too good to be in sixth place when you consider some of the average teams that are above them. It was as though he thought beating TP Mazembe, those giants of world football gave him a position of power. The truth is that it was only Mourinho's achievements that gave him the chance to win which is lets be honest, a mickey mouse cup.
    Regarding his time at Liverpool towards the end of his tenure it seemed to me that some liverpool fans saw him as some sort of rebel figure against the Americans and were unable to see that they were both unrelated. He wasted a lot of money on sub standard players and his mind game attempts were he had to look at pieces of paper to remember what he was saying was quite frankly embarassing. One thing that I will say in his favour was that he knew how to set up a team for a European night. He might not have used the most thrilling brand of football but his tactics were certainly effective in stopping some teams with better technical abilities. He might not be '****' but i think he is overrated by quite a lot of people.
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    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    Well if we're to talk about the past 2 seasons, he's been very inconsistent as a manager and has led Liverpool to ruin last season... I don't know if I could say outright that he's just a bad manager, maybe he's just incredibly unlucky
    Ruin? One bad season, after 4 fantastic seasons does not equate to ruin. What hodgson is doing now, is single handedly dismantling and ruining Rafas work.

    Before Rafa came in, we had got out the CL group stage ONCE and it was considered a successful season if we finished 4th. Afterwards, anything other than 4th was considered a nightmare of a season. Thats not ruin, its raising expectations (Which woy is doing his best to lower)
    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    or it's just a random coincidence that in recent years teams Rafa manages tend to do badly :iiam:
    Look at the bigger picture for gods sake. I'm pretty sure Valencia fans don't look back on his tenure as a failure, or that they performed badly. 2 La liga and a UEFA cup medal suggest they didn't.

    As for Liverpool, your focussing on one bad season out of 5. What about the two european cup finals, a fa cup medal, highest ever points tally in the premiership, lowest amount of defeats in a season in premier league. That is progress.
    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    Course it's nothing personal against him, he's endearing. He's like the underdog that got a great job but just messed it up, he's not a complete failure buut his recent track record doesn't back him up
    Underdog? He's a european cup winning manager for ****s sake.
    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    You'd say Rafa's a good manager?
    Obviously. You don't have the medals he does, by not being.
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    [QUOTE=DontBuyTheSun;29026199]Ruin? One bad season, after 4 fantastic seasons does not equate to ruin. What hodgson is doing now, is single handedly dismantling and ruining Rafas work.

    QUOTE]

    I think this is unfair on Hodgson. He is left with a lot of deadwood from Bentiez' time at the club. Although he made some good buys in his time I think they have been more than cancelled out by his bad ones. Liverpool fans have been far too judgemntal on Hodgson in my opinion. I thought that Liverpool fans were meant to be loyal to their manager? Surely he should get at least a year to prove himself.
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    [QUOTE=bluenose14;29026522][QUOTE=DontBuyTheSun;29026199]Ruin? One bad season, after 4 fantastic seasons does not equate to ruin. What hodgson is doing now, is single handedly dismantling and ruining Rafas work.


    I think this is unfair on Hodgson. He is left with a lot of deadwood from Bentiez' time at the club. Although he made some good buys in his time I think they have been more than cancelled out by his bad ones. Liverpool fans have been far too judgemntal on Hodgson in my opinion. I thought that Liverpool fans were meant to be loyal to their manager? Surely he should get at least a year to prove himself.
    Deadwood?

    Torres - if someone could get him fit he's one of the best strikers in the world.
    Ngog - proving himself to have some talent at the tender age of 21, has 8 goals this season.
    Kuyt - World cup finalist and big game player, has scored vital goals in huge games and gives us consistency down the right.
    (Mascherano - Woy could not convince him to stay but sold for a whopping £22mil)
    Gerrard - Mr Liverpool, despite his poor form, still wanted by most in their midfield
    Lucas - overlooked by the press as he isnt the flashiest player but being brought into the Brazil squad and while only 23 (with a decade ahead of him) is putting in some mature performances week in and out.
    Agger/Skrtel/Carragher - all have some weakness stopping them from being a worldclass/brilliant defender at the moment but under Rafa they had some of the best defensive records
    Reina - Easily one of the best keepers in the league, solid in goal and amazing distribution.
    Johnson - one of the best attacking fullbacks in the league, can be defensively shaky but getting more exposed under Woy's terrible tactics and not utilising his strengths.
    Aquilani - Doing well at Juventus and worth £15mil

    7 of those 11 are internationals, 3 are trying to break into tough squads and Carragher has retired/too old etc.


    Rafa was starved of funds for 2 and a half years and while trying to improve the quality, had to sacrifice the depth.

    Woy has brought in players who arent worth squad depth status. Koncheksy and Poulsen were circa £8mil together, I think they'd struggle to get a place in teams like West Ham at the moment.
    Those 11 players are probably worth £130mil+ even in conservative estimates.
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    I've always backed Benitez and I'm backing him now - I think it's clear that while he was at Inter he still had Liverpool on his mind alot. This, coupled with the fact that he took over from arguably the best manager in the world meant he was never going to be able to do that good a job.. his heart wasn't in it and the players didn't look like they were behind him.
    I think the 'back me or sack me' line was win-win for him, because he would either get given the funds and support of the board so he can go on and inject his style into the team or get compensation money, all the pressure off his back, and -importantly- the possibility to go back and manage Liverpool, which I think is definitely on his mind, definitely possible, and I would support 100%
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    It doesn't particularly surprise me, to be honest with you!
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    Woy's crap
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Absolutely agree. Spot on. I'm a liverpool fan and I was so glad that Rafa left us. He took us to 7th place for goodness sake!!! I predicted that would happen years ago but the support from the deluded 'In Rafa We Trust' bridgade meant he stayed at the club for longer.

    Seriously, Rafa was crap. It was thanks to Gerrard 4 winning the FA cup for LFC (we were closing to getting beat by West Ham b4 Gerrard banged that 30 yarder), not Rafa. Against AC milan, it was his tactics that got us down at half-time 3-0 in the first place, yet he's hailed as some brilliant tactician. If not for Gerrard scoring a great header and diving to give us a penalty, Rafa won't be recognised as anything special.

    He bought a lot of rubbish players and fell out with many of them. He fell out with the owners, who actually gave him money (£289m). I know he recouped some money back but that was because the majority of players he bought were crap. He played too defensively and that cost us the PL cos' we drew to the likes of Stoke, Fulham and West Ham. He didn't play people in their right positions (Kuyt as a winger).
    His falling out with players caused the likes of Alonso, Riise etc to leave the club.

    I don't mind if LFC fans appreciate Rafa being manager when we won the CL but how can any of them say Rafa is one of the best managers in the world? The In Rafa we trust bridgade are some of the most blind, deluded, ignorant & thick fans I've ever come across so far in my life. There always an excuse when he makes a mistake. It's never his fault.
    It's so refreshing that you've posted this and agreed with me - afterall, it is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do know some Liverpool fans who agree with my perspective on Benitez but it's truly perplexing that so many Liverpool fans continue to pine after him and wish him to return as their manager.

    I've repped you, as you may have gathered, because it's about ****ing time a Liverpool fan on here has been absolutely spot on with their opinion. You're a proper fan who clearly can look at things objectively and sensibly, take a step back and truly reflect on what is going on...

    You're a credit to the club.
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    7th in the League will never cut it for a team that's just done the treble.

    And yes, Mourinho is undoubtedly a tough act to follow but 7th still isn't good enough for a team like Inter. Perfectly sensible move. His past at Liverpool is irrelevant, anyone could see that Inter were not heading in the right direction under his management.
 
 
 
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