Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Poorest pupils '55 times less likely to go to Oxbridge' Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by whitediamondsinthesnow)
    ...No. Just, no.

    It's an unfair system, of course.. but I don't think private education really affects your education. I have 10 cousins, all of which are privately educated, except for me (I go to a comprehensive). Two of my cousins are the same age as me and didn't perform as well as me in GCSEs this year..
    (slightly going off topic mind you)

    There's always a few people in my school who go to Oxbridge every year, usually about 2 or 3 (none last year). I think 4 or 5 people have had interviews this year. It's more about intelligence than social background, surely? Or am I just being naive..
    Saying that it's an unfair system but that private education doesn't affect your education is a bit contradictory?

    I don't really understand why people think intelligence can't be hereditary at all. I'm not saying that if your parents are geniuses then you definitely will be as well, but every part of us is determined by our parents genes coming together and coding up a new person. Why shouldn't intelligence be part of that?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    This, I don't get why you got negged for it. :facepalm:
    I think it was from butthurt Oxbridge rejects, realising that they're no longer classed as the 'best of the best'.

    Get over it, and move on.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aaargh)
    Yes. Have you?
    No state school sixth form I've ever been to has been like that, even the underachievers I've visited in inner-cities.

    A lot of the discrepancies between state school and private school grades seems to be that private schools have the money and the inclination to teach the exams to the letter; and they continue to play the system through the admissions process.

    The unfortunate truth of the situation is that money is mostly begot by money, not worth - meritocracy has a long way to come. I agree that affirmative action is not the answer, but nor is ignoring the issue of social mobility entirely.
    Yes, I've attended both actually. Unfortunately, at any school, the issue seems to be that teachers cannot discipline their children, and as a lot of 'chavvy' children attend state education (not all state schooled people are chavs, as I've said, I've been to both and there are plenty of nice people in state schools), that's where the discipline should be excersized.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Why do things like this suprise people?

    People who are born to low income families are likely to live in a house in a low income area. The 'catchment area' that house in is likely to be for underperforming primary schools, that's just the way things go. So that child is already behind at age 11 - they then get into another badly performing school when they go to secondary school, especially if they did badly at primary school, and then due to below average GCSE results are more likely to go to an underperforming college, and thus get worse A levels than their financially better off candidates.

    Its not that Oxford pick off the richest students, its a flaw whereby there is too much variation in how our schools do, and unfortunatley, its the society we live in. Until we have surplus cash to address failing schools in poor catchment areas, there's not much we can do.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Cool. This sounds about right, since universities are not engines for social justice, and it's not their job to be.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    As somebody who came from a working class family, I think it's possibly to do with the environment you have at school. Private school kids are always more likely to go to Oxford or Cambridge because they're in an environment which pushes them to get that far. Of course there's also the factor that they're wealthy enough to go to private school in the first place. My school had a lot of people who just couldn't be arsed. I wasn't pushed, nor was I terribly bothered myself. I barely knew what Oxbridge was until I got to college, and by then it was too late for me to strive to go there.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by whitediamondsinthesnow)
    ...No. Just, no.

    It's an unfair system, of course.. but I don't think private education really affects your education. I have 10 cousins, all of which are privately educated, except for me (I go to a comprehensive). Two of my cousins are the same age as me and didn't perform as well as me in GCSEs this year..
    (slightly going off topic mind you)

    There's always a few people in my school who go to Oxbridge every year, usually about 2 or 3 (none last year). I think 4 or 5 people have had interviews this year. It's more about intelligence than social background, surely? Or am I just being naive..
    The privately educated ones are probably aware that 10 is not a valid statistical sample, especially when they are all from the same family group.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IFondledAGibbon)

    What we need to do is work towards abolishing private schools and make sure every person has an equal education and is given equal opportunities. Until then unis will continue to choose the best students; unfortunately more of these will come form private schools than state schools.
    That will not result in equaility because state schools vary in quality enourmously. It would just put additional strain on the education budget and the richer parents would just move to areas with good schools.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Society so unfair. ;(
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I can't be bothered to read through the whole thread but as someone who fell into this category, I would like to point out that there are several reasons why these students from my background or similar might not be eligible to apply or may not want to apply and unfortunately Oxford and Cambridge can't do anything about quite a few of the problems that affect these students applying.

    I think it's easy to underestimate how much work both unis do towards increasing Access. A hell of a lot is being done and they're introducing new things and improving their outreach work all the time. Having been incredibly involved in access stuff at Oxford, I've seen it first hand. I've also seen how no matter how successful Oxford is at changing students' perceptions of it, many still can't/won't apply for reasons way beyond the university's control. The media doesn't help with the way it reports things.

    I have presents to wrap and cake bowls to lick, so not gonna hang around. Quote if you want my attention please
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Nice to see the Daily Mail hasn't felt the need to go for a hysterical, OTT, thoroughly misleading headline.

    It's hardly surprising that students let down by the state education system don't have a particularly high chance of ending up at top universities.
    • Offline

      13
      (Original post by xRosieMx)
      Just got back from interview at Oxford, out of the 15 maths people i befriended, only the two going to private schools got a place, they weren't even in the right school year. Everyone else was from a state school and got rejected outright not even pooled.
      Perhaps they just weren't good enough?

      They get extra tuition and help to prepare for the MAT test, and we are invited for interview just as bums on seats. They don't care whether we have had preparation or went in blind.
      No they care about your potential and whether you fulfill their admission criteria irrespective of your educational background.

      Who knows what kind of brown envelope underhand dealings are going on between these posh private schools and the Universities.
      :facepalm2:

      I am going to appeal against the decision. TBH i wouldn't go now anyway. Oxford is full of geeks and snobs, either people who have no life and study around the clock, or people who have been tutored all the way and fit the bill from a private school.
      Just no.

      There are very few normal kids from state schools who are just bright. And they're overrated anyway. I've heard they work you to the bone, and i've been advised to go elsewhere, there are plenty of unis with just as good reputations that allow you to have a social life too!!
      They really aren't the Be all and End all...
      Well, if that's what you think of Oxford, then fair enough. Good luck at another university.
      • Offline

        13
        (Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
        The problem is with the education system, not discrimination from Oxbridge. At the moment Oxbridge chooses the best academically gifted students. There will be disproportionately more students who are academically gifted from private schools, because they have had a better education.
        Fair enough.

        What we need to do is work towards abolishing private schools and make sure every person has an equal education and is given equal opportunities. Until then unis will continue to choose the best students; unfortunately more of these will come form private schools than state schools.
        No, don't bring in your communist ideals into this. If you abolish private schools, parents will simply pay for the best tutors.
        • Offline

          13
          (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
          I think it's easy to underestimate how much work both unis do towards increasing Access. A hell of a lot is being done and they're introducing new things and improving their outreach work all the time. Having been incredibly involved in access stuff at Oxford, I've seen it first hand. I've also seen how no matter how successful Oxford is at changing students' perceptions of it, many still can't/won't apply for reasons way beyond the university's control. The media doesn't help with the way it reports things.
          That is true. I know from current experience that certain students still believe in the stereotypes of Oxbridge; and there's also the fact that as a result of their ill-informed perceptions, they do not aspire for Oxbridge. Not everyone is the "Oxbridge type".

          It seems that regardless of what Oxford or Cambridge try to do in order to improve their image, the stereotype will still linger on. But if people don't apply, well, it's just a vicious circle.
          • PS Reviewer
          Offline

          19
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by im so academic)
          That is true. I know from current experience that certain students still believe in the stereotypes of Oxbridge; and there's also the fact that as a result of their ill-informed perceptions, they do not aspire for Oxbridge. Not everyone is the "Oxbridge type".

          It seems that regardless of what Oxford or Cambridge try to do in order to improve their image, the stereotype will still linger on. But if people don't apply, well, it's just a vicious circle.
          It's not even just about the stereotypes though. In my first year there was a Black and Minority Ethnic students' open day, which I was part of. I spent a whole day with a group of seriously underpriviliged kids from Tower Hamlets and spent the afternoon with a group of four Muslim 14 year olds. It was clear at the start of the day that they'd just come along because their school had dragged them. At the end of the day, I asked them whether they'd enjoyed the day. They said yes. I asked them whether I'd convinced them that Oxford was a uni where they would be happy studying/overturned their negative perceptions of it. I was thrilled.

          I asked them if they were likely to apply. They said no. I was a bit shocked given their enthusiasm for the afternoon and asked why. They're not allowed to move away from home. One of the biggest FML moments I had at Oxford (and that's saying something ) :sigh:

          I conveyed this back to the SU Access guy, who asked what we could do. I told him there wasn't much he could do, unless he had a magic wand to radically alter Asian family culture. (Even I was told Oxford or London. That was only because my older sis had gone to Oxford. My dad never had any intention of letting her go outside London either but she's quite a character )
          • Offline

            13
            (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
            It's not even just about the stereotypes though. In my first year there was a Black and Minority Ethnic students' open day, which I was part of. I spent a whole day with a group of seriously underpriviliged kids from Tower Hamlets and spent the afternoon with a group of four Muslim 14 year olds. It was clear at the start of the day that they'd just come along because their school had dragged them. At the end of the day, I asked them whether they'd enjoyed the day. They said yes. I asked them whether I'd convinced them that Oxford was a uni where they would be happy studying/overturned their negative perceptions of it. I was thrilled.

            I asked them if they were likely to apply. They said no. I was a bit shocked given their enthusiasm for the afternoon and asked why. They're not allowed to move away from home. One of the biggest FML moments I had at Oxford (and that's saying something ) :sigh:

            I conveyed this back to the SU Access guy, who asked what we could do. I told him there wasn't much he could do, unless he had a magic wand to radically alter Asian family culture. (Even I was told Oxford or London. That was only because my older sis had gone to Oxford. My dad never had any intention of letting her go outside London either but she's quite a character )
            Good point. I do know what you mean. Despite visits to Oxford and Cambridge; yes they might have enjoyed the day but it's not a place they would see themselves "fitting in". Well, what else can you do?

            Although there are people who want to leave home, there are individuals who prefer to stay in their home town - and that's their personal choice, not something up to their parents to decide.
            • PS Reviewer
            Offline

            19
            ReputationRep:
            (Original post by im so academic)
            Good point. I do know what you mean. Despite visits to Oxford and Cambridge; yes they might have enjoyed the day but it's not a place they would see themselves "fitting in". Well, what else can you do?

            Although there are people who want to leave home, there are individuals who prefer to stay in their home town - and that's their personal choice, not something up to their parents to decide.
            Well I managed to show them that they could fit in too. I did specifically ask that because they had a lot of questions about racism, religion and fitting in.

            Also, unfortunately a lot of students have restrictions placed on them by their parents and it's difficult to ignore these due to cultural and financial reasons. We mustn't underestimate the power of that. No doubt many of them might just prefer to stay at home anyway but for others the decisions about uni are not as simple as that :nah:
            Offline

            11
            ReputationRep:
            (Original post by Delaney)
            Source - BBC News


            So is this another example of eliteness in Britains top universities or just another case of statistics being used to encourage uni's to accept less able students?
            Neither. It's an endemic social problem
            • Offline

              13
              (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
              Well I managed to show them that they could fit in too. I did specifically ask that because they had a lot of questions about racism, religion and fitting in.

              Also, unfortunately a lot of students have restrictions placed on them by their parents and it's difficult to ignore these due to cultural and financial reasons. We mustn't underestimate the power of that. No doubt many of them might just prefer to stay at home anyway but for others the decisions about uni are not as simple as that :nah:
              As you mentioned, it is not something for Oxbridge to fix. They can only choose people if they apply. Sure you can raise awareness of Oxbridge, but that is as far as it will go.

              Despite that, I do highly admire Oxbridge's efforts to widen access, but there's only so much that they can do to influence a candidate's choice of university.
              Offline

              1
              ReputationRep:
              (Original post by xRosieMx)
              Just got back from interview at Oxford, out of the 15 maths people i befriended, only the two going to private schools got a place, they weren't even in the right school year. Everyone else was from a state school and got rejected outright not even pooled. They get extra tuition and help to prepare for the MAT test, and we are invited for interview just as bums on seats. They don't care whether we have had preparation or went in blind. Who knows what kind of brown envelope underhand dealings are going on between these posh private schools and the Universities.
              I am going to appeal against the decision. TBH i wouldn't go now anyway. Oxford is full of geeks and snobs, either people who have no life and study around the clock, or people who have been tutored all the way and fit the bill from a private school. There are very few normal kids from state schools who are just bright. And they're overrated anyway. I've heard they work you to the bone, and i've been advised to go elsewhere, there are plenty of unis with just as good reputations that allow you to have a social life too!!
              They really aren't the Be all and End all...
              are you bitter

              oh and if it was the MAT then you can just prepare by yourself for heaven's sake! there are past papers on the oxford maths department website
             
             
             
          • See more of what you like on The Student Room

            You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

          • Poll
            Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
            Useful resources
            Uni match

            Applying to uni?

            Our tool will help you find the perfect course

            Articles:

            Debate and current affairs guidelinesDebate and current affairs wiki

            Quick link:

            Educational debate unanswered threads

            Groups associated with this forum:

            View associated groups
          • See more of what you like on The Student Room

            You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

          • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

            Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

            Quick reply
            Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.