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    (Original post by im so academic)
    But I never implied that private schools are the problem.

    I'm telling you this right now - state schools are the problem.

    "Banning" private schools is simply not an option, there would never be a realistic chance of that ever happening, I cannot see a majority of the electorate voting for those proposals etc etc.

    Keep your little fantasy in your head. Communistic principles do not work in the real world.
    And to top it all, you side step all my arguments and revert to repeating your argument without trying to support your point.

    I would love to sit in on your Oxford interview. I know their not supposed to, but the interviewer would probably point and laugh.
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    As a grammar school boy B) , imo the 11+ should be brought back all over the UK.

    Equality of opportunity and all that.

    My school was great.
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    What a surprise that imsoacademic turns up whenever someone says something approaching the truth about private schools, and then decides to somehow try to explain that state schools are the biggest problem with society...

    This argument has been done so many times... each have their own strengths and weaknesses, and it depends on the area you live in/grew up in. If I grew up in a little middle class village in the country, of course I would be more accepting of private schools. However, I grew up in the city, so state schools are the norm. It's the same for everyone.

    Personally I don't think private schooling is worth the money. I would rather spend that money on private tutition for my state schooled children, should they decide they want to progress to A-Levels and HE.
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    I don't get why there aren't more state grammar schools
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    Well, I'm going to add my two cents for the fun of it! I had 3 options 1) my local, non-selective comprehensive, 2) a very high achieving mixed grammar school/a reasonably high achieving all girls grammar or 3) a top, all girls private school. I sat down and thought and I went for number 1. I'm going to say now my state school isn't a bad school as such - it's judged outstanding and becoming an academy. Still, it's not the most affluent area and there is a real mix of ability, class etc. Personally, I love it! I'm not going to get entrenched in the whole state vs private thing, I'll just say why it suits me better. I think it really is useful to be with a range of abilities (I wouldn't agree with the whole private school elitist bubble thing, that's taking it too far, the private schooled people I know are lovely!) - it has helped shape me as a person to face up to people who thought I was weird because I did well in class. That doesn't happen at this school (I'm in one of the parts of the country where it goes primary/middle/secondary) but it, contrary to what you'd think, helped my self-esteem flourish. My current school doesn't conform to the whole ostracising the clever thing: I'm doing fine popularity-wise. I love the diversity of my friendship group and think it's important to appreciate all parts of society from a young age. For me, I thrive in the stimulation of being consistently top in the year - I would hate the pressure of Private School. If I can get 12A*s and 2As in my Mocks with barely revising, why burn myself out with work? I think if more people like myself went to state schools instead of private/grammar it would really help. The only way to improve the state sector is to properly focus on it rather than turning the top students away. I also do find single-sex education a little strange - we've got to learn about the opposite sex sometime folks! When I have kids, I will send them to the local state comp with pride. However, I want to distance myself somewhat from some of the OPs uniformed stereotypes...

    tl;dr: I think most of the stereotypes about private/state schools are unfounded and I know lovely/not so lovely people from both, but for me personally comprehensive education is the best!
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    (Original post by LizzieHibbert)
    I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
    My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
    There were a number of reasons for this.
    1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
    2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
    3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
    4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
    5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
    6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
    1) BS this is not true.
    2) Depends on the area the private school is in . Of course it would be mostly middle class Whites- they can afford it (duh).
    3 & 4)That is the case in private schools.
    5)Depends on the school. Your godbrother is stupid , if he didn't really want to do it , he wouldn't have gone to uni in the first place.
    6) where did you get this from

    Most of what you have come up with is rubbish.I went to a private school and moved to a state grammar in Year 9 ( due to my dad's illness). It was the best experience of my life and I loved it there . I love the grammar school I'm at now and I am happy to have experienced both types of education and I really appreciate that. There was a mix of different backgrounds in the private school i went to but not as much as my current school. Mainly because the private school in total ahd 300 pupils in the senior department and in my school there are 1,400 pupils.Another reason was that it's in Blackheath(a posh area in south east London).
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    (Original post by BookWormShanti)
    I would hate the pressure of Private School. If I can get 12A*s and 2As in my Mocks with barely revising, why burn myself out with work?
    (Original post by BookWormShanti)
    I think most of the stereotypes about private/state schools are unfounded
    eh?
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    (Original post by Varciani)
    What a surprise that imsoacademic turns up whenever someone says something approaching the truth about private schools, and then decides to somehow try to explain that state schools are the biggest problem with society...

    This argument has been done so many times... each have their own strengths and weaknesses, and it depends on the area you live in/grew up in. If I grew up in a little middle class village in the country, of course I would be more accepting of private schools. However, I grew up in the city, so state schools are the norm. It's the same for everyone.

    Personally I don't think private schooling is worth the money. I would rather spend that money on private tutition for my state schooled children, should they decide they want to progress to A-Levels and HE.
    I agrre that the money could be spent on private tution or even saved towards university.
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    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    eh?
    Ok, ok, caught out! Hell, I was already rambling and it is very hard to construct any sort of succinct argument without using some stereotypes! I do agreee/disagree with myself (depending on which bit you read ) that not all private schools are like that and many people I know at Private have less homework than me. I wrote that really fast anyway and I should definitely read through what I've written before I post as most of it is now screaming what the.... at me However, huge cudos and hat off to you I've repped you for my stupidity!
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    (Original post by laurie:))
    okay, 'free' relative to private schools. happy?
    It isn't a case of being happy. My parents still paid taxes which were used to fund local state education, even though I went to private school. Education isn't free, in countries such as Canada education can be free, for example the Indian Act.
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    (Original post by LizzieHibbert)
    1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations
    2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
    3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
    4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
    5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
    6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
    Firstly, 3 is complete bull****. It's important for children of all abilities to mix but when it comes to classes everybody is happier and works better among children of similar ability.

    As for the rest, this applies really only to junior school, where I personally have far too many memories of closed-circuit life and being constantly told we were 'not just the cream of the cream... but the cherry on top' and not knowing how to act around the opposite sex/people from state schools etc etc

    However moving up the school everything changed completely. The sixth form have completely normal interaction with people from different class backgrounds and the opposite sex. Misconceptions about intelligence seem to come from parents more than anything- if anything public exams have taught me that anyone who worked hard and had good teaching could get the same grades.

    As for motivation, I completely disagree. There is more pressure from teachers and parents but it only makes a difference to a certain point. The people who 'do no work' in my school clearly do a hell of a lot more than people who 'work really hard' in others. Maybe this is because more work is set, pupils on average do more or the work on average is harder but the pupils find it easier.

    I also feel that a lot of academic decisions I've made have been completely discouraged by my school, and although I sometimes lack self motivation when it comes to A levels and need to be prompted into working, when it to the subject I want to study at uni, i.e. what really really matters to me, I've done shed loads of self-motivated hard work. My school carefully fosters self motivation, and there is nothing bad about being given a helping hand where it is needed.

    Oh and the school occasionally does try to bully people into higher education but I'd hardly say that's commonplace. It happens to maybe one person a year.

    The funny thing is, you seem to be exhibiting the very social misunderstanding and stereotyping that you seem so upset by.
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    (Original post by LizzieHibbert)
    I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
    My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
    There were a number of reasons for this.
    1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
    2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
    3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
    4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
    5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
    6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
    so i've attended both state and private schools and i have to say the main difference is the amount of attention you are given. having attended state schools up to college i was never a focus and at most was 'one of a mass.' when it came to applying for colleges i thought i may as well try for a scholarship which required subject tests, an aptitude test, subject interviews and an interview with the headmistress and believe me i didnt think i had a chance in hell of getting in - but i did! the confidence of everyone i met was the thing that most struck me and i believe this is because everyone was made to feel comfortable in their education. at the end of the day my confidence grew massively but not in such a way that i assumed i was now a part of the elite super race middle class but instead that if i needed the help i would get it and that my teachers would do anything in their power to help me succeed.
    of course it is expected that you attend university but we had many ex pupils come in to speak to us and tell us that at the end of the day our destinies were most definately not set in stone.

    i most definately am not an abercrombie rah-type, i'm from a single parent working class background and ive worked hard for all the opportunites i have had. private school isnt for everyone but when it works it really does work. i had issues settling in at first with so much attention on me as an individual and expectations of my percieved intelligence but mingling with so many people that have no clue just how intelligent they were was really refreshing. this may be a sweeping statement in my experience when you are told you are intelligent at state school you are put on a pedestal because you somehow have managed to 'buck the trend' but in my experience at college i was never told how bright i was so i worked harder.

    attending a private school is a choice, if its not for you then there are alternatives. i have to disagree massively with your comment that state schools are more mixed cause you forget that of course they would be in an area like manchester but think about more rural areas where literally the only reason you'll see someone who isnt white is cause their parents own the local chinese or indian or whatever. school is school, you get taught the same things, you'll meet the stereotypes, you'll move on to adulthood and you'll achieve whatever it is you work hard for. at the end of the day, private schooling just means your parents are paying people to do anything in their power to help you succeed.

    *rantover*
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    (Original post by junglejungle)
    so i've attended both state and private schools and i have to say the main difference is the amount of attention you are given. having attended state schools up to college i was never a focus and at most was 'one of a mass.' when it came to applying for colleges i thought i may as well try for a scholarship which required subject tests, an aptitude test, subject interviews and an interview with the headmistress and believe me i didnt think i had a chance in hell of getting in - but i did! the confidence of everyone i met was the thing that most struck me and i believe this is because everyone was made to feel comfortable in their education. at the end of the day my confidence grew massively but not in such a way that i assumed i was now a part of the elite super race middle class but instead that if i needed the help i would get it and that my teachers would do anything in their power to help me succeed.
    of course it is expected that you attend university but we had many ex pupils come in to speak to us and tell us that at the end of the day our destinies were most definately not set in stone.

    i most definately am not an abercrombie rah-type, i'm from a single parent working class background and ive worked hard for all the opportunites i have had. private school isnt for everyone but when it works it really does work. i had issues settling in at first with so much attention on me as an individual and expectations of my percieved intelligence but mingling with so many people that have no clue just how intelligent they were was really refreshing. this may be a sweeping statement in my experience when you are told you are intelligent at state school you are put on a pedestal because you somehow have managed to 'buck the trend' but in my experience at college i was never told how bright i was so i worked harder.

    attending a private school is a choice, if its not for you then there are alternatives. i have to disagree massively with your comment that state schools are more mixed cause you forget that of course they would be in an area like manchester but think about more rural areas where literally the only reason you'll see someone who isnt white is cause their parents own the local chinese or indian or whatever. school is school, you get taught the same things, you'll meet the stereotypes, you'll move on to adulthood and you'll achieve whatever it is you work hard for. at the end of the day, private schooling just means your parents are paying people to do anything in their power to help you succeed.

    *rantover*
    Well said. Can see why you got in to Oxford. When did you change from private to state school? (oh and see you there next year )
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    (Original post by agolati)
    Private school is better. Better teaching generally, people are generally more devoted to learn. Less chavy bums trying to play the class clown.
    ahh yes and I truly believe that you have exemplified this with your excellently varied vocabulary.
    tool.
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    (Original post by l4ith)
    Some state schools are really good too; it's unfair to generalize.
    meh.
    I don't appreciate the pretentious way you (and the majority of people on TSR) have got your academics in your sig.

    I mean, I've pretty much matched you in GCSEs but I don't feel the need to 'SUBTLY' have them there in my sig all the time God-damn it.


    tool.
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    (Original post by LizzieHibbert)
    I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
    My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
    There were a number of reasons for this.
    1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
    2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
    3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
    4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
    5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
    6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
    Also, your mum is a B1TCH.
    that is all.
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    (Original post by thewiseone)
    ahh yes and I truly believe that you have exemplified this with your excellently varied vocabulary.
    tool.
    Oh what a great response, you have silenced me.

    ?!

    I don't care, I'm not writing a formal letter here, nor am I paying attention to my vocab. TSR = students are my audience.
    Tool.
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    (Original post by frequent_flyer)
    Well said. Can see why you got in to Oxford. When did you change from private to state school? (oh and see you there next year )
    went from a life of state school to private for 6th form, honestly best decision i ever made. really hate these kind of posts but thought this young'un needed to hear a few truths... what college you hittin up next year? i'm gonna be a christ church-er :cool:
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      (Original post by dnumberwang)
      I don't get why there aren't more state grammar schools
      Blame the Labour Party, political correctness, "one-size-fits all", introduction of comprehensive education, fears of "elitism" etc etc.
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      Who actually cares?
     
     
     
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