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Britain is overcrowded... something needs to be done about immigration... Watch

  • View Poll Results: Does something need to be done about Immigration and Overcrowding?
    Yes
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    59.09%
    No
    90
    40.91%

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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    As an environmentalist, I believe that any net population increase at the moment is a terrible idea given how much pressure we already place on these islands. All non-EU immigration should be stopped indefinitely, although EU immigration and emigration to the EU doesn't give much of a net change per year. Remember, our environmental impact isn't limited to the urban areas themselves, and that most of the countryside is intensely, carefully managed rather than left wild. Crowding out nature will be our downfall if we're not careful.

    As for overcrowding, I think we should start to build up instead of out . . . our cities are in dire need of rebuilding anyway.

    And please don't mistake this for racism or xenophobia - I love the contributions that other cultures have made to ours, and some of my best friends are from abroad - but we need time to catch up and develop our infrastructure to deal with the current population, and to roll back some of the urban sprawl. We can't do that if the population is growing substantially.
    If only it were so simple. But economically such an act as you say you want would be suicide.

    Firstly, unless your policy was carried out alongside a culling of old people, it will just make the pension problems worse. We have an ageing population with people needing pensions for longer. One way to help the problem is to ensure we have a growing number of workers. Part of the pension problem was caused by a dropping birth rate which barely replaces the people that die, thus a higher and higher proportion of the population becomes older when the age expectations increase. Migration has, in part, been responsible in recent years for off-setting this problem increasing our population a little.


    Secondly, EU immigration is a massive portion of all immgration in to the UK. Yet is arguably some of the least valuable. I don't have figures, but I would expect a higher percentage of immigrants from outside of the EU are highly skilled scientists, doctors, academics (perhaps you might want to include sports people in this list too). Thus by stopping non-EU immigration so suddenly you don't actually reduce immigration that much yet stop what I'm expecting would be a massively disproportionate number of the most valuable highly skilled immigrants which we need to ensure the country performs as well as it can in very important sectors.
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    (Original post by No Man)
    There's still plenty of space in Scotland if Britain becomes more crowded at least.
    Yeah, except there's a reason why Scotland isn't as densely populated as England. Why build a town half way up Ben Nevis when you can build it on a nice flat piece of land in Bristol? Topography of the land is closely linked to population density which is why you find - particularly the south of England - it is much more populated there. A lot of land isn't suitable for settlements and Scotland isn't anywhere near as flat as England.

    Also, people go to where the jobs are.
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    (Original post by Organ)
    So you would a.) force people to go to Scotland b.) force people to not have anymore kids. That sounds a much more desirable alternative to simply introducing a sensible, measured, immigration policy along the lines of pretty much every other industrialised nation on the planet.
    Britain has too many nitty gritty human rights policies to start an immigration policy like that, otherwise they would have done it already.
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    Hmmmm..
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    (Original post by Organ)
    I'm not blaiming immigrants for anything. It is looking very unlikely that huge housing shortages will be met, public services are overstretched, Britain has an extensive welfare state, and we have a high population density (particualrly England where pretty much every migrant heads - England has a higher population density than the Netherlands). It is clear to anybody that allowing large-scale mass (i.e. hundreds of thousands per annum) immigration is a bad idea, our resources are finite, and it's important that greenbelts and green land is conserved.
    I probably don't understand the ins and outs of housing shortages in this country but if you look at cities like Leeds, I can't see why the city can't just sprawl outwards. If it's because of rules about building on green areas, then people need to start being less precious about living near a few fields. There's shed-loads of green space out there so the argument that we should preserve rural areas doesn't cut it for me.

    Immigration shouldn't mean overstretched public services. Immigrants usually contribute just as much to public services as their native counterparts. Perhaps mass immigration on an overwhelming scale would temporarily stretch services, but I fear that the scale of immigration is hugely over-hyped - again just taking Leeds as an example here, anecdotally I haven't seen the huge scale of immigration that the tabloids seem to whine on about. It takes the same amount of time to see my GP or my dentist now as it always has.

    If you look at somewhere like London which obviously has immigrants flocking to the city on an enormous scale, its public services (take transport for instance!) are still of a very high quality.
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    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    Why do we need any non eu immigration?
    It's given in the BBC link I provided in the format of a spreadsheet.
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    (Original post by RK)
    Secondly, EU immigration is a massive portion of all immgration in to the UK. Yet is arguably some of the least valuable. I don't have figures, but I would expect a higher percentage of immigrants from outside of the EU are highly skilled scientists, doctors, academics (perhaps you might want to include sports people in this list too). Thus by stopping non-EU immigration so suddenly you don't actually reduce immigration that much yet stop what I'm expecting would be a massively disproportionate number of the most valuable highly skilled immigrants which we need to ensure the country performs as well as it can in very important sectors.
    This is an interesting point. There is clearly a balance to be made, and if say Birmingham University want 10 academics from Asia then every effort should be made to get these people to the UK, same with those in finance, engineering and areas of real skill shortages. Surely such a system could be implemented - such as in Australia.

    One thing that does bug me with this, is that often they make up for the inability or inaction on the UK's part to train people in certain areas, and simply amounts to nicking skilled graduates from poor countries. Take foreign trained doctors, Britain has long not trained enough doctors (compared to Europe) simply because we didn't want to pay, Labour partly addressed this problem by opening a large number of new medical schools (HMYS, Peninsula, Warwich etcetera) but still we don't train as many docs as France or Germany. Training doctors is expensive, it's often much cheaper to take Indians, or Nigerians, or Cambodians out of their home country and employ them as doctors in the UK. This bothers me because the UK has the resources to train doctors, we are a wealthy country, yet poor countries invest money to train doctors who, upon finishing their traning, bugger off to the UK and leave their home countries healthcare in an even worse state than if they hadn't been trained (due to the cost of training them). I don't think it's fair to have 20% - 25% of our doctors to be international graduates because it really does leave skills shortages in already poor areas of the planet

    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    But if I go back to my country of origin they will call me a foreigner too. I only have an English accent. I was born here. I'll most probably end up working here too. My parents aren't on benefits and contribute to the economy. I have friends here. I eat my fruit and Veg. What else do you want me to do?

    TELL ME WHERE TO GO OP! TELL ME!

    Nobody is asking you to leave, I don't understand why this issue yields such a dramatic response. Cutting down the numbers of people entering the UK doesn't mean anybody has to leave.....
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Britain overcrowded? :awesome:

    You guys should see my home-town in India. I'll show you the meaning of 'overcrowded'. :yes: :p:
    Thats exactly why we should stop immigration. I don't want my country turning into an open toilet like india.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?s...id=newsarchive

    India Failing to Control Open Defecation Blunts Nation’s Growth

    March 4 (Bloomberg) -- Until May 2007, Meera Devi rose before dawn each day and walked a half mile to a vegetable patch outside the village of Kachpura to find a secluded place.

    Dodging leering men and stick-wielding farmers and avoiding spots that her neighbors had soiled, the mother of three pulled up her sari and defecated with the Taj Mahal in plain view.

    With that act, she added to the estimated 100,000 tons of human excrement that Indians leave each day in fields of potatoes, carrots and spinach, on banks that line rivers used for drinking and bathing and along roads jammed with scooters, trucks and pedestrians. Devi looks back on her routine with pain and embarrassment.

    “As a woman, I would have to check where the males were going to the toilet and then go in a different direction,” says Devi, 37, standing outside her one-room mud-brick home. “We used to avoid the daytimes, but if we were really pressured, we would have to go any time of the day, even if it was raining. During the harvest season, people would have sticks in the fields. If somebody had to go, people would beat them up or chase them.”

    In the shadow of its new suburbs, torrid growth and 300- *million-plus-strong middle class, India is struggling with a sanitation emergency. From the stream in Devi’s village to the nation’s holiest river, the Ganges, 75 percent of the country’s surface water is contaminated by human and agricultural waste and industrial effluent. Everyone in Indian cities is at risk of consuming human feces, if they’re not already, the Ministry of Urban Development concluded in September.
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    (Original post by No Man)


    There's still plenty of space in Scotland if Britain becomes more crowded at least.
    BUGGER OFF

    You are not turning my country into some ghetto like you have done to your own country. I have been to sloguh, inner London and Birmingham and I don;t want Scotland going down the pan like those areas.
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    (Original post by JW92)
    I probably don't understand the ins and outs of housing shortages in this country but if you look at cities like Leeds, I can't see why the city can't just sprawl outwards. If it's because of rules about building on green areas, then people need to start being less precious about living near a few fields. There's shed-loads of green space out there so the argument that we should preserve rural areas doesn't cut it for me.

    There isn't really a housing shortage. There are enough houses. The problem is that the prices are just too high for most people at the moment.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    There isn't really a housing shortage. There are enough houses. The problem is that the prices are just too high for most people at the moment.
    House prices are skyhigh because there is a shortage. It is simple demand and supply stoopid
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    I'm sure there was a guy in Germany with a few ideas like this once...
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    (Original post by Jody Mcintyre)
    BUGGER OFF

    You are not turning my country into some ghetto like you have done to your own country. I have been to sloguh, inner London and Birmingham and I don;t want Scotland going down the pan like those areas.
    The feeling is mutual. No one in London wants to it turn into a toilet like Glasgow either.
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    The whole world is overcrowded, not just Britain.

    More people are alive than have ever died.
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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    I'm sure there was a guy in Germany with a few ideas like this once...
    What reducing immigration ? Or are you equating reducing immigration with murder, genocide, enslavment and war you ****ing idiot

    What the hell does debating immigration levels have to do with Adolf Hitler or Nazi Germany ? Oh I forgot you probably read the Guardian.
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    (Original post by JW92)
    I probably don't understand the ins and outs of housing shortages in this country but if you look at cities like Leeds, I can't see why the city can't just sprawl outwards. If it's because of rules about building on green areas, then people need to start being less precious about living near a few fields. There's shed-loads of green space out there so the argument that we should preserve rural areas doesn't cut it for me.
    There's only a finite amount of land in the UK, we need some of that for farming, you know - to grow food.

    Also, people want to preserve the countryside, for good reasons; wildlife, recreational uses and general pleasure (of not being surrounded by traffic) and for environmental benefits it brings.
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    (Original post by Jody Mcintyre)
    House prices are skyhigh because there is a shortage. It is simple demand and supply stoopid
    Wrong. Simple supply and demand does not take into account speculation.

    There are plenty of empty houses in Britain. There are several hundred thousand.

    The problem is that speculation in the property market has led to a huge property bubble emerging in Britain.

    That property bubble hasn't been allowed to burst by the Government because the consequences of such an action could affect the economy severely.
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    (Original post by Jody Mcintyre)
    BUGGER OFF

    You are not turning my country into some ghetto like you have done to your own country. I have been to sloguh, inner London and Birmingham and I don;t want Scotland going down the pan like those areas.
    http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=inner+city+glasgow

    Just saying...
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    tbh although i was born here i really don't like england can't wait to finish my education and move outta this country....and i'm fully Nigerian!!
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    (Original post by ZombieCharge)
    There's only a finite amount of land in the UK, we need some of that for farming, you know - to grow food.

    Also, people want to preserve the countryside, for good reasons; wildlife, recreational uses and general pleasure (of not being surrounded by traffic) and for environmental benefits it brings.
    Yes, I do understand the benefits of growing food, thank you. Not sure we need 90% of the land in Britain for that, though.
 
 
 
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