Sickening attack on free speech, Veitch's arrest caught on camera Watch

Bellrosk
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#41
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#41
(Original post by SteveCrain)
I didn't watch the Royal Wedding, didn't know they were getting married till yesterday and don't care about them.

However I do care about the harassing of the police by a student who is clinging to some fictional Orwellian analogy.
Oh...
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Smtn
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#42
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#42
His gf is ****ing annoying
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Ewan
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#43
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What an idiotic women, the guy seemed alright but she was just annoying.
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IFondledAGibbon
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#44
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(Original post by Manitude)
Supposing that he did sympathise with the couple (not unlikely given how polite how was) and he refused orders. He'd probably lose his job and find it extremely difficult to find another.
Arresting someone on what are actually minor charges is VERY different to killing someone (innocent or otherwise) which what you are trying to liken this to. Not worth losing your job over.

If he is found innocent of all charges (if the woman was correct should be a straightforward case) then I would expect that a letter of apology would be written to Veitch and the matter closed. Though if that were to happen I get the impression that whatever group he is affiliated with would still go on about police corruption and political agendas against republicans for years.
I would question the morality of doing any job that would require you to do something that isn't in line with your moral code. Obviously, there is a big difference between killing and arresting. But you could be asked to kill.

The fact that they will be released with an apology is irrelevant. Someone has stopped a peaceful protest, for political reasons. This is disgusting.
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Manitude
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
Everybody is responsible for their actions. I really don't agree with this: 'people shouldn't have opinions because it's their job'. How about hitmen and soldiers? Is murder fine because someone else told them to do it?

It's not like she screamed in their faces, she asked fair questions about their illegitimate arrest and the officer's place in it.

And I don't think anyone is calling those police officers 'sick'. Just the motives for the arrest.
Responding to the edit:
As the police officer implicitly (or possibly explicitly, I forget) for there to be an arrest warrant there was probably some reason.
I don't believe there is widespread corruption in the police service. Certainly there will be on a small scale, but I really do not think that the police service today can be likened to a secret police locking people up just because they hold a certain view (unless of course that view is holocaust denial...my opinion on that as a crime is as yet unclear)

Of course if people WANT to believe that the police is conspiring against them and limiting their freedom of speech then they can - I won't do anything to stop them, I just don't personally believe it.
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Jamie
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Bellrosk)

Whether or not you agree with this guy's motives, his methods are entirely peaceful and inoffensive and he poses absolutely no threat to anybody.

Thoughts on his arrest? Justified or not?
I had friends at the rally in london the day of the F&M attack.

Anarchists and 'activists' were in effect using protesters as human shields for their nefarious activities.

If this guy had anything to do with the vandalism of F&M then its quite right he be arrested.
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Steevee
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#47
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
I would question the morality of doing any job that would require you to do something that isn't in line with your moral code. Obviously, there is a big difference between killing and arresting. But you could be asked to kill.

The fact that they will be released with an apology is irrelevant. Someone has stopped a peaceful protest, for political reasons. This is disgusting.
They arrested a man on grounds of a crime comitted.

Also, to be honest I have no problem with stopping some people protesting at some events, you can argue slippery slope, but honestly I couldn't care less.

I don't want people protesting at weddings, funerals, rememberance services and so on. You can still protest the other 95% of the time.
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Broderss
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#48
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"I study politics at Cambridge actually"

**** you ***** get a life both of you.
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IFondledAGibbon
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#49
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(Original post by Manitude)
Responding to the edit:
As the police officer implicitly (or possibly explicitly, I forget) for there to be an arrest warrant there was probably some reason.
I don't believe there is widespread corruption in the police service. Certainly there will be on a small scale, but I really do not think that the police service today can be likened to a secret police locking people up just because they hold a certain view (unless of course that view is holocaust denial...my opinion on that as a crime is as yet unclear)

Of course if people WANT to believe that the police is conspiring against them and limiting their freedom of speech then they can - I won't do anything to stop them, I just don't personally believe it.
I'm not saying there is some crazy conspiracy, just the simple fact that it did happen, it was wrong for it to happen and she had legitimate reasons for asking the police about their place in it.
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Shuvel
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#50
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His girlfriend gets on my tits. Seen her in a protest video screaming and crying like a toddler throwing her toys out the pram at the slightest thing (was both frustrating and embarasing to watch her), and it's pretty obvious she's completely brainwashed and worships Veitch.
Classic example of the sheltered, spoilt daddy's little private school girl who decided she wanted to rebel. "I studied politics at Cambridge actually" I wanted to punch you in the face, actually.
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IFondledAGibbon
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#51
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(Original post by Steevee)
They arrested a man on grounds of a crime comitted.

Also, to be honest I have no problem with stopping some people protesting at some events, you can argue slippery slope, but honestly I couldn't care less.

I don't want people protesting at weddings, funerals, rememberance services and so on. You can still protest the other 95% of the time.
Can you actually argue that it's right to stop a peaceful protest? You're right about the slippery slope - where do we draw the line?
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member520746
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#52
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(Original post by HomeoApathy92)
lol why do you think he's a prick? i think he's a bit off with the faries sometimes.. all this flower power stuff and fails to see reality, but i wouldn't describe him as being a prick.
I don't think he fails to see reality, he's just arrogant. I've known a lot of communists/anarchists like him who think they are smarter and better than everyone else and their politics are an excuse to see themselves as the saviour of everyone else. He has no real power or influence so he just goes around with a camera making a **** of himself and harrassing people who aren't really to blame for anything like arguing with PCSOs about the global capitalist empire or standing outside a McDonalds with a megaphone shouting at people who buy their kids a Happy Meal suggesting that they're bad parents. Typical middle class beardy with no substance and a whole lot of ego. If you've ever read his blog you'll know how much he likes talking about himself and how sophisticated his utterly stupid ideas are. His people politics are purely a platform for him to talk about himself and he is precisely the kind of character that makes the far left look like ridiculous lunatics and ****ers.
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IFondledAGibbon
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I'm not liking the personal attacks everyone is throwing at the girlfriend. It does nothing to weaken the merits of her argument.

Although, she did sound a little pretentious with the whole 'politics at Cambridge' line.
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Steevee
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#54
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
Can you actually argue that it's right to stop a peaceful protest? You're right about the slippery slope - where do we draw the line?
Yes, yes I can and I will. I believe in decency. The right to freedom of protest should not be extended under all circmstances. Indeed, it is not.

Have you noticed for instance, the people arrested for 'inciting religious hared?' Where does the slope stop eh?

I don't think people should be allowed to protest under all circumstances. Call me Authoritarian if you will.
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IFondledAGibbon
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(Original post by Steevee)
Yes, yes I can and I will. I believe in decency. The right to freedom of protest should not be extended under all circmstances. Indeed, it is not.

Have you noticed for instance, the people arrested for 'inciting religious hared?' Where does the slope stop eh?

I don't think people should be allowed to protest under all circumstances. Call me Authoritarian if you will.
I don't agree. Being offended is simply a point of view. A view that is no more legitimate that wanting to protest. I personally use the harm principle when considering freedom. If there’s no harm caused, do what you like.
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Praww
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#56
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That has to be the tamest 'arrest' in the hisory of tame arrests. As for the reason for the arrest, I (or anybody in this thread) can't say whether or not it was warranted (I would assume it was though). Simple as that.

As for the issue of filming, I think it is absolutely crucial that we are allowed to film law enforcement. What's the law about filming police officers btw? Cba to look it up...

Also, I lol'd at the Cambridge name drop, so unslick.
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HomeoApathy92
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#57
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(Original post by JCC-MGS)
I don't think he fails to see reality, he's just arrogant. I've known a lot of communists/anarchists like him who think they are smarter and better than everyone else and their politics are an excuse to see themselves as the saviour of everyone else. He has no real power or influence so he just goes around with a camera making a **** of himself and harrassing people who aren't really to blame for anything like arguing with PCSOs about the global capitalist empire or standing outside a McDonalds with a megaphone shouting at people who buy their kids a Happy Meal suggesting that they're bad parents. Typical middle class beardy with no substance and a whole lot of ego. If you've ever read his blog you'll know how much he likes talking about himself and how sophisticated his utterly stupid ideas are. His people politics are purely a platform for him to talk about himself and he is precisely the kind of character that makes the far left look like ridiculous lunatics and ****ers.
hmm but at the end of the day at least he's attempting to do something. thats the problem these days with anarchism (well at least in england) it seems to be a sort of middle class elitist fashion craze. when i say he fails to see reality, i mean that he fails to sort of step outside the bubble of the 'bearded philosopher', and 'love policing' which i personally feel that although he has good motvies its ineffective. its the same as when anarchists such as Kropotkin referred to tramps as 'the flower of the proletariat'. I haven't read his blog and i don't think i will as i've lost interest in him lol.. i think he's been on too much weed lately. But good luck to him.
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Steevee
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
I don't agree. Being offended is simply a point of view. A view that is no more legitimate that wanting to protest. I personally use the harm principle when considering freedom. If there’s no harm caused, do what you like.
Well then, if you get rid of the laws that already infringe freedom of speech, the I will happily remove my idea. Sadly I doubt such a thing will happen. In which case, seeing as my righs are already infringed to save someone else offence, would claim the same right. My issue is with the double standards when it comes to freedom of speech.
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Manitude
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
I'm not saying there is some crazy conspiracy, just the simple fact that it did happen, it was wrong for it to happen and she had legitimate reasons for asking the police about their place in it.

I would imagine that the police officer in question has little choice but to trust that his superiors are making the 'right' decisions. The police officers do not have the full facts at their disposal (and neither do I, hence why I'm trying to remain as neutral as possible) so they shouldn't be forced to make a decision about whether what they're doing is right or wrong. They just have to trust that it is right and get on with it.

For all they know he could have been telling people to rise up in arms against an oppressive regime over his megaphone.
I don't know what he was saying or the exact context that the comments were made (which can make all the difference) so I really can't make a judgement.
Further, I don't remember what the allegations against him were, and I certainly don't know how those allegations are defined by law.
Without a full, unbiased, knowledge of the circumstances leading up to the arrest warrant I can't decide if it was right or wrong according to my morals. And if I were to decide that it was right or wrong I really don't think my opinion on it matters at all, so there's really not too much point in bothering to read through all the evidence.
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And that's probably the most eloquent way of saying "I'm too lazy, cba" you'll ever read!
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member520746
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(Original post by HomeoApathy92)
hmm but at the end of the day at least he's attempting to do something. thats the problem these days with anarchism (well at least in england) it seems to be a sort of middle class elitist fashion craze. when i say he fails to see reality, i mean that he fails to sort of step outside the bubble of the 'bearded philosopher', and 'love policing' which i personally feel that although he has good motvies its ineffective. its the same as when anarchists such as Kropotkin referred to tramps as 'the flower of the proletariat'. I haven't read his blog and i don't think i will as i've lost interest in him lol.. i think he's been on too much weed lately. But good luck to him.
At least Kropotkin had some integrity, I think Veitch's girlfriend sums up the Love Police. "Ummmm well I studied politics at Cambridge actually". I think it's doubtful Veitch has ever even had an extended conversation with a working class person outside of them being somebody he criticises like police. Like you said, he is just a radical fashionista.
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