What exactly is wrong with Communism? Watch

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Barden
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#41
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#41
Some words of wisdom I should have heeded earlier than I did - "Communism is a great idea".

But the main reason I moved towards the economic centre, it that I actually quite like to go to McDonalds and have a Coca-Cola with my meal.
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rocket0612
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#42
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#42
I agree with much about Communism, however the last stage of a leaderless society with no government is a step too far.
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thecat23
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#43
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(Original post by MTR_10)
If communism means abolishing the class system in favour of equality, then what exactly is wrong with it? Up until now, communism has always been associated with poverty. What if, a world superpower say America for example (or China in the future) resorts to communism. If Britain joins them (and the Commonwealth countries do as well) and the EU then pretty much over half of the world will live in communism. As this spreads, poverty in Africa will be abolished, extreme wealth will be dissolved into the system and the world will potentially stop fighting over wealth and individual gain. The world will be driven by 'the system' and not the 'individual'. New countries will open themselves up to the rest of the world. Borders will be opened and everyone will live as one.
It's just that people are too power hungry. That's why communism didn't work in russia.

There's always the desire to want more. I mean think about it, how would you like it if you worked really, really hard at your studies and stuff, and you'd earn the same amount as someone that didn't give a crap and did f*** all.

Communism works if people have the right mentality, however human nature doesn't allow us to do it.
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Beamuse
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#44
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Would you really want to work your ass off all day and earn the same as a guy who did half as much as you?
I'm a capitalist, I figure the harder I work, the richer I get, and there's no way I'd wanna just give away my monetary rewards for such work to any one else.
Sorry :\
(btdub, when I say that, I mean like my community and so on. I'd obvs look after my family, buy my friends birthday presents, and whatever... I'm not a total *****... )
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thecoldground
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#45
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(Original post by siwelmail)
Do you want to be the same as the guy next door to you, but he is something fancy and you are a bin cleaner, both with the same wage?

It's **** idealism
Go on. Tell me what is wrong with that?

Lets use an even better example - a football player and a social worker. Is a footballer twenty or thirty times more important to society than a social worker?
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thecoldground
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#46
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(Original post by Beamuse)
Would you really want to work your ass off all day and earn the same as a guy who did half as much as you?
I'm a capitalist, I figure the harder I work, the richer I get, and there's no way I'd wanna just give away my monetary rewards for such work to any one else.
Sorry :\
(btdub, when I say that, I mean like my community and so on. I'd obvs look after my family, buy my friends birthday presents, and whatever... I'm not a total *****... )
I don't disagree with you at all.

The problem is that financial rewards don't measure up with how valuable or hard the job is, or go by any standards like that. There is no doubt in my mind that stock trader is not ten times more important than a doctor, and not twenty or thirty or forty times more important than a teacher (or a musician, even). Nor is their job twenty or thirty or forty times more hard. It's actually that huge amount easier.

So yeah. Why do you wanna just give away your monetary rewards for such work to any one else, to rich bankers and corporate interests?
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Radekal
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#47
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Try telling Communist leaders to receive the same salary as everybody else. Not gonna work. There is not an economy strong enough to keep the living standard high for everyone, and anyone who'd lose wealth because of the new system would strongly oppose it.
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MTR_10
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#48
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#48
(Original post by thecat23)
It's just that people are too power hungry. That's why communism didn't work in russia.

There's always the desire to want more. I mean think about it, how would you like it if you worked really, really hard at your studies and stuff, and you'd earn the same amount as someone that didn't give a crap and did f*** all.

Communism works if people have the right mentality, however human nature doesn't allow us to do it.
If communism was introduced properly (I mean on a global scale, not just one country here and there), then there would be no desire for power. As there would be no wars, no struggle etc.

The desire to want more is only a direct response to capitalism though. Marketing, anxiety etc. If I worked really hard at my studies, became talented at something and was able to do something very well, I would feel it was my duty to do this for the good of all and for society (to contribute to the society that allowed me to develop this talent), in much the same way, it is the duty for the people gifted in medicine to use their skills to treat patients, or the duty for the person responsible for empltying bins to make sure the bins are emptied.

The problem is that many people in today's (capitalist) world don't do f**k all but seem somehow to make a (apparent) success of themselves. I believe its called entrepreneurship. ie. Expolitation of others for individual financial gain. In a capitalist society there is a not a direct link between hard work and success.

Human nature is corrupted by capitalism. It is unnatural and does not allow progress or equality.
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anoushka1
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#49
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#49
Idealistically its great

Realistically people are too selfish for it to work we want incentives and we want rewards for working harder than other etc. doesnt work and there is no empirical data to prove that it does

And Im a very left wing socialist so Im not saying this as a capitalist minded person
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MTR_10
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#50
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#50
What if individuals was driven by duty rather than personal gain?
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Josh_Dey
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#51
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#51
I love communism :love:
If only the idea actually worked :rolleyes:
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MTR_10
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Radekal)
Try telling Communist leaders to receive the same salary as everybody else. Not gonna work. There is not an economy strong enough to keep the living standard high for everyone, and anyone who'd lose wealth because of the new system would strongly oppose it.
The living standard would be the same by nature. There would be no 'high living standards' or 'low living standards'. Just a universal, tranquil peace.

Would the wealthy so strongly oppose it though if somehow they became aware of their impact on society? If the wealthy could see first hand the impact of their actions, they may (through their conscience) decide to participate in a communist revolution. Hence the world turns communist and living standards universalised across the world. Africa opens up to the rest of the world. People travel, move around and live peacefully.
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thecat23
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#53
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#53
(Original post by MTR_10)
If communism was introduced properly (I mean on a global scale, not just one country here and there), then there would be no desire for power. As there would be no wars, no struggle etc.

The desire to want more is only a direct response to capitalism though. Marketing, anxiety etc. If I worked really hard at my studies, became talented at something and was able to do something very well, I would feel it was my duty to do this for the good of all and for society (to contribute to the society that allowed me to develop this talent), in much the same way, it is the duty for the people gifted in medicine to use their skills to treat patients, or the duty for the person responsible for empltying bins to make sure the bins are emptied.

The problem is that many people in today's (capitalist) world don't do f**k all but seem somehow to make a (apparent) success of themselves. I believe its called entrepreneurship. ie. Expolitation of others for individual financial gain. In a capitalist society there is a not a direct link between hard work and success.

Human nature is corrupted by capitalism. It is unnatural and does not allow progress or equality.
But that's exactly it. It's too late cos we've all been socially conditioned. Unless you introduce it to the next generation.

We all think of GAINING rather than feeling dutiful. That's just the way we've been raised. At school, we're taught that you have to get grades, to go to uni, in order to get a GOOD JOB and MAKE LOADS OF MONEY.

that's it. It's literally a dog eat dog world.

you'd probably like this: www.zeitgeistmovie.com
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Radekal
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#54
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(Original post by MTR_10)
The living standard would be the same by nature. There would be no 'high living standards' or 'low living standards'. Just a universal, tranquil peace.

Would the wealthy so strongly oppose it though if somehow they became aware of their impact on society? If the wealthy could see first hand the impact of their actions, they may (through their conscience) decide to participate in a communist revolution. Hence the world turns communist and living standards universalised across the world. Africa opens up to the rest of the world. People travel, move around and live peacefully.
What I'm saying is that obviously if you spread the wealth equally then the wealthiest would lose a lot.
I don't believe human conscience is strong enough to spark a worldwide revolution. People are tempted by money too much.
Also, and this is not meant to be racist, if the poorest populations could travel freely, there would be a massive increase in the spread of HIV, and possibly other diseases as well.
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MTR_10
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#55
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#55
(Original post by thecat23)
But that's exactly it. It's too late cos we've all been socially conditioned. Unless you introduce it to the next generation.

We all think of GAINING rather than feeling dutiful. That's just the way we've been raised. At school, we're taught that you have to get grades, to go to uni, in order to get a GOOD JOB and MAKE LOADS OF MONEY.

that's it. It's literally a dog eat dog world.

you'd probably like this: www.zeitgeistmovie.com
To introduce it to a generation would cause an imbalance in the way society interacts and views each other. There needs to be a continuous understanding and shared ideologies between grandparents and children, wealthy and poor (as they currently exist). The form of global communist revolution I am referring to would be entirely voluntary and therefore peaceful. The wealthy (and subsequently influential) voluntarily dispersing their wealth throughout the world in order to gain more as a collective group than as individuals. Capitalism has its limits, and the desire for materialism or individual gain can only reach a point. Once (true) success and happiness is recognsied, understood and introduced the notion of communism will spread and the revolution will occur.

Many Far Eastern cultures are driven by duty and honour.

Except we are humans.

I'll take a look.
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Don John
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#56
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#56
(Original post by MTR_10)
If communism means abolishing the class system in favour of equality, then what exactly is wrong with it? Up until now, communism has always been associated with poverty. What if, a world superpower say America for example (or China in the future) resorts to communism. If Britain joins them (and the Commonwealth countries do as well) and the EU then pretty much over half of the world will live in communism. As this spreads, poverty in Africa will be abolished, extreme wealth will be dissolved into the system and the world will potentially stop fighting over wealth and individual gain. The world will be driven by 'the system' and not the 'individual'. New countries will open themselves up to the rest of the world. Borders will be opened and everyone will live as one.
Communism disincentivises hard work by rewarding everyone, regardless of the quality of their production.
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f00ddude
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#57
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nothing is wrong with communism ideals, it will NEVER work though
humans are self interested beings
read animal farm and you should understand
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MTR_10
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Radekal)
What I'm saying is that obviously if you spread the wealth equally then the wealthiest would lose a lot.
I don't believe human conscience is strong enough to spark a worldwide revolution. People are tempted by money too much.
Also, and this is not meant to be racist, if the poorest populations could travel freely, there would be a massive increase in the spread of HIV, and possibly other diseases as well.
But what about what they would gain? Also, would they lose a lot? Considering the materials we have today - £2 t-shirts for the poor, yachts for the wealthy. They would all be accessible to everyone. No status attached to them. Everyone shares what the world currently has.

The fact that you (and many others) 'don't believe' is exactly what is stopping it from happening.

Money would lose its value in a communist society.

HIV has been caused by oppression in the first place so that is not a valid argument. Also with the current technology/ healthcare we have in the first world we would most likely be able to treat it. Also, great plagues are nothing new. Why should HIV virus (in theory) be concentrated to one geographical area when it is a problem partly created (or not helped in any way) by the West?
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Evanesyne
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#59
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#59
Very simply put: Spiffying idea on paper, **** real world applications.
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Liam123
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#60
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#60
To even begin to implement it, a state has to restrict the people enormously. And pretty much keep it that way. A communist society could never be a truly rosy, happy and equal society - that is, due to all the reasons previously stated.
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