What will happen to Pakistan now considering Bin ladens been hiding there ? Watch

Poll: What will happen to Pakistan now considering Bin ladens been hiding there?
Absolutely Nothing (39)
36.79%
Senior Pakistani officials will be questioned but will lead no where. Case closed soon after... (61)
57.55%
Sanctions on Pakistan (4)
3.77%
A dramatic government change will take place. Perpetrators who helped Bin laden will be brought to justice. (2)
1.89%
Drunk Punx
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Inzamam99)
Now I'am willing to bet my balls that no one in the military establishment or the government knew of the whereabouts of Bin Laden
He was found in a military establishment. I fail to believe that during the time he was there, no-one so much as saw him pop to the shops.
If ANYONE saw him or even suspected that he was there then it would stand to reason that they'd shop him in so they could have the reward.

See where I'm going with this?
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Dumb Economist
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Inzamam99)
"Now I'am willing to bet my balls that no one in the military establishment or the government knew of the whereabouts of Bin Laden but that certain elements in the ISI were responsible and these are the elements which must now be destroyed by the army as they refuse to realise which way the wind is going and what is best for Pakistan."

The only change to the above is that I'am saying some military guys may have helped harbour him. But the primary player was definitely definitely the ISI.
You seems to be a good patriotic Pakistani and I am sure there are many more. The best thing good Pakistani can do for Pakistan is accept that there is cancer growing within that includes elements of Govt, Military, ISI etc--they are all hand in hand. Work hard to eliminate it. Blaming external agencies (like west, Israel, India, Hindus, Jews, etc ) will only lead to self demise.
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Tenbinza
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#43
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#43
Everyone knew he was either in Afghanistan or Pakistan...
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Inzamam99
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Dumb Economist)
You seems to be a good patriotic Pakistani and I am sure there are many more. The best thing good Pakistani can do for Pakistan is accept that there is cancer growing within that includes elements of Govt, Military, ISI etc--they are all hand in hand. Work hard to eliminate it. Blaming external agencies (like west, Israel, India, Hindus, Jews, etc ) will only lead to self demise.
Thank you

Indeed I completely agree with you and this is a thing about some Pakistanis including my dad which really REALLY pisses me off- their failure to see the growth of this internal cancer you describe and the tendency to blame everything from the current economic situation to the suicide bombings on the Americans and the Indians (RAW to be exact) in particular. This ridiculous victim mindset is now leading to us failing to see that the real problem here is the lack of expenditure in education which is continuing to see the radicalisation of many young people and the inability of the establishment (both the government and the military) to accept that the ISI, as good as it is, is compromised and the bits that threaten the rest must be pruned out before it is too late.

The problem is too many people within the establishment still believe that supporting the Haqqani network is the best way forward in Afghanistan because according to them, that group is the one which will have the most influence once the US withdraws. Moreover they also see a necessity to support groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba because of their constant paranoia that a war with the Indians can break out anytime. Instead they should (and Kayani for one is a very intelligent man and realises this) see which way the wind is blowing and that supporting a terrorist group against a future superpower and trading with the Taliban in Afghanistan instead of the US, UK etc. is detrimental to the country's future.
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Inzamam99
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Drunk Punx)
He was found in a military establishment. I fail to believe that during the time he was there, no-one so much as saw him pop to the shops.
If ANYONE saw him or even suspected that he was there then it would stand to reason that they'd shop him in so they could have the reward.

See where I'm going with this?
He was found in a town HOUSING a military training academy. And of course he didn't "pop to the shops", he would have been noted and turned in- most people in Pakistan hate him.
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Smtn
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Doyle&TheFourFathers)

I've just seen ongoing news and a 12 year old boy had visited the compound where Osama lived a few times - he knew about Osama and his wives.
Source?

The kid knew about the kids living there, and wives....haven't seen him talk about Laden
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Drunk Punx
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Inzamam99)
He was found in a town HOUSING a military training academy. And of course he didn't "pop to the shops", he would have been noted and turned in- most people in Pakistan hate him.
Riiiight. And no-one in that town ever questioned who lived in the **** off huge mansion that, according to news reports, dwarfed every other building in the town.

I'm not claiming to a specific viewpoint on this, merely trying to be open-minded about it; it's very ****ing unlikely that no-one ever saw him.
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Dumb Economist
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Inzamam99)
Thank you

Indeed I completely agree with you and this is a thing about some Pakistanis including my dad which really REALLY pisses me off- their failure to see the growth of this internal cancer you describe and the tendency to blame everything from the current economic situation to the suicide bombings on the Americans and the Indians (RAW to be exact) in particular. This ridiculous victim mindset is now leading to us failing to see that the real problem here is the lack of expenditure in education which is continuing to see the radicalisation of many young people and the inability of the establishment (both the government and the military) to accept that the ISI, as good as it is, is compromised and the bits that threaten the rest must be pruned out before it is too late.

The problem is too many people within the establishment still believe that supporting the Haqqani network is the best way forward in Afghanistan because according to them, that group is the one which will have the most influence once the US withdraws. Moreover they also see a necessity to support groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba because of their constant paranoia that a war with the Indians can break out anytime. Instead they should (and Kayani for one is a very intelligent man and realises this) see which way the wind is blowing and that supporting a terrorist group against a future superpower and trading with the Taliban in Afghanistan instead of the US, UK etc. is detrimental to the country's future.
I get really surprised to see such constant paranoia about Indian threat. From what I have seen average Indian does not care about Pakistan and they only get excited about Pakistan only when there is new perceived threat which normally follows after stupid attacks like the one in Mumbai. One third of Pakistan's GDP is wasted on Army. Just imagine if so called 'Indian' threat does not exist? The same corrupt elements from the Govt, army and ISI will lose the opportunity to generate revenues for themselves. These people use 'religion' 'ignorance' 'illiteracy' and 'perceived or non existing threats' to keep this cycle going. It will be a huge task for the average Pakistani to sort this mess. But it needs to sorted for the sake of everyone including the neighbours.
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Saadar
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Dumb Economist)
I get really surprised to see such constant paranoia about Indian threat. From what I have seen average Indian does not care about Pakistan and they only get excited about Pakistan only when there is new perceived threat which normally follows after stupid attacks like the one in Mumbai. One third of Pakistan's GDP is wasted on Army. Just imagine if so called 'Indian' threat does not exist? The same corrupt elements from the Govt, army and ISI will lose the opportunity to generate revenues for themselves. These people use 'religion' 'ignorance' 'illiteracy' and 'perceived or non existing threats' to keep this cycle going. It will be a huge task for the average Pakistani to sort this mess. But it needs to sorted for the sake of everyone including the neighbours.
I don't think you realise that most Pakistanis hate Indians and its the same the other way around, as for the " average Indian does not care about Pakistan" comment go watch a few Indian news channels, almost every other story is to do with Pakistan, especially now, all the "facts" you hear on BBC will be exaggerated in some way by the Indian news channels to further degrade the way the average Indian perceives Pakistan. Why would the news channels do this if none of their audience gives a monkeys?
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Dumb Economist
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Saadar)
I don't think you realise that most Pakistanis hate Indians and its the same the other way around, as for the " average Indian does not care about Pakistan" comment go watch a few Indian news channels, almost every other story is to do with Pakistan, especially now, all the "facts" you hear on BBC will be exaggerated in some way by the Indian news channels to further degrade the way the average Indian perceives Pakistan. Why would the news channels do this if none of their audience gives a monkeys?
As the channels have nothing better to fill the slots with. Secondly there many crooked elements in the Indian govt too- who would rather divert people's attention to external problem from the internal ones. But I say it again - avg Indian does not care about Pakistan.
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Joe199111
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Dumb Economist)
get really surprised to see such constant paranoia about Indian threat. From what I have seen average Indian does not care about Pakistan and they only get excited about Pakistan only when there is new perceived threat which normally follows after stupid attacks like the one in Mumbai. One third of Pakistan's GDP is wasted on Army
then why is 80% of the Indian Military on Pakistans Border ? Why do indian politicians compete to say who will be the most aggressive with pakistan that other politicians.Last time I checked pakistan defense spending was 3-4% of GDP, no doubt the myth in india is its 103%. The average Indian cares very much so about pakistan. Indian Leaders all ways attempt to block any foreign arms purchases by pakistan.There is a difference between reporting the news and engaging in negative propaganda and gloating which is what the Indian Media is doing.



(Original post by ShadowConspiracy)

So you agree with the aid, :facepalm: , For a country that's slashing spending left right and centre, .
so unless you live in a penthouse you live in the stone ages ? what an ignorant and stupid comment

I dont agree with Aid, but Aid should only be taken away when the EU stops illegal farm subsidies( €55 billion a year ) and stops using the IMF to influence developing countries economic policy. Countries like pakistan give far more in debt servicing costs to the us that we give them in Aid. It doesnt matter if the government is corrupt as aid is distributed through NGOs. 150 million from a 650 billion pound is not alot, but in the long term farm subsidies should be stopped

As for the Million Dollar mansion

"Osama bin Laden's house, described by the US government as a $1m (£605,000) mansion, is in fact worth no than $250,000 say property professionals in Abbottabad, the town where he was killed"
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ShadowConspiracy
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Joe199111)

so unless you live in a penthouse you live in the stone ages ? what an ignorant and stupid comment
When did I state this? You can compare Pakistan to the U.K it'll be like comparing Barcelona to Leeds United football club it's just pointless and retarded.
(Original post by Joe199111)
I dont agree with Aid, but Aid should only be taken away when the EU stops illegal farm subsidies( €55 billion a year ) and stops using the IMF to influence developing countries economic policy. Countries like pakistan give far more in debt servicing costs to the us that we give them in Aid. It doesnt matter if the government is corrupt as aid is distributed through NGOs. 150 million from a 650 billion pound is not alot, but in the long term farm subsidies should be stopped
You haven't answered my question, For a country with a corrupt government, Why should we the British taxpayer fund them? The U.S is slashing their aid budget towards them, Why shouldn't the British?

It's the left wing people like you, The reason this country is such a pushover.
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Dumb Economist
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Joe199111)
then why is 80% of the Indian Military on Pakistans Border ? Why do indian politicians compete to say who will be the most aggressive with pakistan that other politicians.Last time I checked pakistan defense spending was 3-4% of GDP, no doubt the myth in india is its 103%. The average Indian cares very much so about pakistan. Indian Leaders all ways attempt to block any foreign arms purchases by pakistan.There is a difference between reporting the news and engaging in negative propaganda and gloating which is what the Indian Media is doing.
First - Pakistan defence spending is 13.5% in yr 2011. (So my mistake of carelessly saying one third) - Still 13.5 % is huge amount. Secondly Indian Army will obviously be located where there is biggest threat coming from would that be normal? Obviously there is not much army presence with Bangladesh, Nepal, Burma or Sri Lanka borders? Why do think that? With regards to Indian Media - They are obviously sensationalising a news like any other news ... They do the same with other India events. Pakistan's media is no different. I do not understand where this argument going? Are you trying to say Indian threat is valid?
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Joe199111
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Dumb Economist)
First - Pakistan defence spending is 13.5% in yr 2011. (So my mistake of carelessly saying one third) - Still 13.5 % is huge amount. Secondly Indian Army will obviously be located where there is biggest threat coming from would that be normal? Obviously there is not much army presence with Bangladesh, Nepal, Burma or Sri Lanka borders? Why do think that? With regards to Indian Media - They are obviously sensationalising a news like any other news ... They do the same with other India events. Pakistan's media is no different. I do not understand where this argument going? Are you trying to say Indian threat is valid?
Yes, but India has a much larger border with China.I dont know if India is a threat today, but India has the potential to be a threat with such an offensive force on the border. thats what keeps the Pakistanis seeing India as a threat.13.5% is alot but not quite 33%, I wonder how much that figure would fall by if you takeaway the cost pakistan army operation against the taliban.So if India sees Pakistan as a threat then Pakistan will see India as a threat its a cycle, saying India doesn't care about pakistan is incorrect.

Pakistan is spending around $6.5 billion which was 4 per cent of its GDP.


(Original post by ShadowConspiracy)
When did I state this? You can compare Pakistan to the U.K it'll be like comparing Barcelona to Leeds United football club it's just pointless and retarded.

You haven't answered my question, For a country with a corrupt government, Why should we the British taxpayer fund them? The U.S is slashing their aid budget towards them, Why shouldn't the British?

It's the left wing people like you, The reason this country is such a pushover.
I didnt compare Pakistan to the UK, I said just because you dont live in the UK does not mean you live in the stone age. I dont think you are aware of the facts on the ground. Like I said I am against giving Aid and favour cutting farm subsidies

.British Aid does not go to the Pakistan government but to British Charities.What america does is its own buisness, I doubt they are but thats up to them. Military Aid to pakistan 1) its a developing country and important transit for NATO supplies
its only a small chunk of National Spending.
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ShadowConspiracy
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Joe199111)
I didnt compare Pakistan to the UK, I said just because you dont live in the UK does not mean you live in the stone age. I dont think you are aware of the facts on the ground. Like I said I am against giving Aid and favour cutting farm subsidies
But Pakistan is hardly a world super power, It might as well be back in the stone ages?
[QUOTE=Joe199111;31252740]
.British Aid does not go to the Pakistan government but to British Charities.[quote]

Incorrect, the aid goes to the government, It's a total waste of money considering 2% of Pakistan's annual budget was spend on education, 2 ****ing percent, And you don't want to cut back, A country that clearly supports terrorism (They knew Bin Laden was living in that house, It's probably the reason he's been undetected for so long)


(Original post by Joe199111)
What america does is its own buisness, I doubt they are but thats up to them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20059255.shtml

(Original post by Joe199111)
Military Aid to pakistan 1) its a developing country and important transit for NATO supplies
its only a small chunk of National Spending.
So that alone justifies giving them over £600 million?
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Saadar
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#56
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#56
"Incorrect, the aid goes to the government, It's a total waste of money considering 2% of Pakistan's annual budget was spend on education, 2 ****ing percent, And you don't want to cut back, A country that clearly supports terrorism (They knew Bin Laden was living in that house, It's probably the reason he's been undetected for so long)"

A country that supports terrorism, how the hell can you say that, every week there are suicide bombs going off all over the place killing hundreds, most people over there hate terrorists and the ones that do support them are a minority who have been misinformed. Have you been to Pakistan to be making such bold accusations?
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Seher
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Doyle&TheFourFathers)
seriously?

say goodbye to your testicles.

I've just seen ongoing news and a 12 year old boy had visited the compound where Osama lived a few times - he knew about Osama and his wives.

A 12 year old local boy knew the whereabouts of Osama.


I have every confidence that Pakistani officials knew.
Be real. Please. If any locals had known that Osama was living so close to them, the $25m reward would've been more than sufficient initiative to hand him over. Never mind the fact that many Pakistani citizens have been terrified of taliban bombings for years now - it's a much, much more realistic threat there than in the UK or the US.

The only reason Pakistani officials were hiding/assisting him was to continue getting aid money from the US. The local citizens had no such motives - why would they hide Osama?

At the end of the day, he's just a 12 year old boy being quizzed by international journalists who probably thinks the whole thing is quite cool and that he'll become famous if people think he was buddies with the most wanted man on the planet.
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Joe199111
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#58
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#58
[QUOTE=ShadowConspiracy;31253037]But Pakistan is hardly a world super power, It might as well be back in the stone ages?

you seem obsessed with the stone ages, have you lived in the stone ages ?.Britian is not a world power does that make the UK in the stone ages such an ignorant comment clearly no point explaining to further you will never understand.
[QUOTE=Joe199111;31252740]
.British Aid does not go to the Pakistan government but to British Charities.

Incorrect, the aid goes to the government, It's a total waste of money considering 2% of Pakistan's annual budget was spend on education, 2 ****ing percent, And you don't want to cut back, A country that clearly supports terrorism (They knew Bin Laden was living in that house, It's probably the reason he's been undetected for so long)


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20059255.shtml


So that alone justifies giving them over £600 million?
Aid is distributed by DFid. Pakistan spends 2% no ones saying thats good, but that is a common in poorer countries. Do you understand the process of nation building , that is what our foreign policy objective is.100 million may build 100 schools in england but it can build 20,000 in Pakistan

you could say we are supporting terrorism in Libya, but I doubt the Pakistan hiding bin laden. They have no financial incentive as aid is given for the war against the taliban and only bin laden.Pakistan intelligence put this compound on the CIA radar and has been critical to the fight against Al Qaeda

With Bin Laden I suspect what happened Bin Laden never left the compound or made a phone so he was left no traces, you could hide an illegal immigrant in your house for 10 years and the police would never know. Pakistan Intelligence is not perfect they dont do a very good job of breaking up suicide bomber cells at home.


Like I said its not 650 its over a number of years and yes why not ? Pakistan has been hit by massive floods, the war on terror has cost them at least 7.5 billion dollars a year. The pakistan government has repeatedly said it wants FREE trade not aid but india and peru blocked at the WTO.

(Original post by ShadowConspiracy)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20059255.shtml


So that alone justifies giving them over £600 million?
yes I know there are some reports but I assure it will america will not cut aid.Even Obama acknowledged that pakistani help led to obama assassination

House Speaker John Boehner "a robust U.S.-Pakistan relationship is critical to stopping the terrorist al-Qaida network"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=135943545

Democrat John Kerry defended aid to Pakistan, . ''We just got Osama bin Laden. One of the reasons we got him is because we had intelligence people there and able to do their work. If we lose that, we put America at greater risk

U..S. Senator John McCain declared that the United States must stand with Pakistan, despite the proliferation of suspicions about how that country’s military and intelligence apparatus may have helped and supported terrorists, including Osama bin Laden.

So the House Speaker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Ranking Member of armed services committee all support the Coalition Support Fund(aid).Pakistan does not profit from the war, its similar to the UN peace keeping operation countries get paid costs they dont make a profit.

The Reason, America didnt ask the ISI to arrest Bin Laden is they wanted Bin Laden dead they did not want to wait for the pakistani courts to extradite him

If you are not happy with British Foreign Policy,study international relations for 3 years and join the Foreign Office or even better become the Editor of the Daily Mail
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Doyle&TheFourFathers
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Seher)
Be real. Please. If any locals had known that Osama was living so close to them, the $25m reward would've been more than sufficient initiative to hand him over. Never mind the fact that many Pakistani citizens have been terrified of taliban bombings for years now - it's a much, much more realistic threat there than in the UK or the US.

The only reason Pakistani officials were hiding/assisting him was to continue getting aid money from the US. The local citizens had no such motives - why would they hide Osama?

At the end of the day, he's just a 12 year old boy being quizzed by international journalists who probably thinks the whole thing is quite cool and that he'll become famous if people think he was buddies with the most wanted man on the planet.
I think its deluded to believe that locals and the Pakistani government did not know about Osamas whereabouts. Osama was an extremely rich person - not only that but his family are extremely rich and he had a wealth of followers who are very rich. Bribery of the immediate local populace is almost certain. The other motive to hide Osama for such a long period of time is of course the threat of execution to the individual and their family.

I think the Americans found out about his whereabouts through local contacts.

"The 12 year old boy" story is, to me, proof that Osamas location was known to at least some people living in that area, both civilian and military. Did you see the brief interview with the Pakistani MP? He was insisting to move on from this situation and to not ask questions.
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member264988
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#60
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#60
This is all such a conspiracy, Obama died in 2001, the 9/11 was done by Freemasons and the AL-Qaeda ironically was formed by the Americans during the war against Russia,

Stop believing everything on the media and do some research!

as for Pakistan 30,000 citizens and 5000 members of the army have been lost during the 'war on terror'
and Pakistan is still getting blamed for supporting terrorism?
what has the west lost?
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