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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    It's a sad fact of our society that you have to think ahead all the time to ensure your safety. It shouldn't be - you should be able to dance down backalleys naked, drunk at 3 in the morning if you wanted to without anyone trying to cause you harm, but unfortunately there are always those who will take advantage, so you should always watch your drinks, stay within your limit and never ever wander off on your own.
    That is life.
    Unless you want eugenics, you have to be careful.


    (Original post by Philbert)
    It's not safe for women to be walking around alone at night; shouldn't we be tackling that issue rather than berating women for not taking taxis?
    How? It is already the law not to rape so the only thing that can be done is to be careful. Wake up and face the real world - the one were people are sadly free to do and act how they want.


    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    It is easier for men not to rape than women not to be raped.

    You just don't rape.
    ...and some people don't care.
    Did that ever cross your mind? That some people are just bad people? :rolleyes:


    (Original post by kirsty1988)
    Alternatively, we could start telling all men "I hope you don't rape women. Everywhere you go, coming home at night, remember not to rape women."
    We do :rolleyes: It is called the law and society. But again, did it ever occur to you that some people just don't care? That at the end of the day YOU are responsible for yourself?


    (Original post by skeanos)
    Pretty much reflects modern society that we would rather tackle the issue of someone walking home alone (GOD FORBID) than malicous rapists who once prosecuted (IF at all) are let on the streets in a very short space of time.
    Herpaderp - but we do tackle rape, HENCE why it is against the law! God forbid people take responsibility for their own safety! :eek:


    (Original post by Emor)
    The rapist obviously shouldn't have raped her.

    It's cliché but the truth, she's not the one at fault.

    EMZ.
    So it is not her responsibility to look after her own safety? :confused: Erm, well now I am just confused....



    (Original post by KamsGirl)
    i love how everyone always blames the woman for doing something whenever a woman gets raped. :| its always 'well it depends on what she was wearing' / 'she was out late' etc. truth is, rapists will rape someone no matter what time of the day, and no matter what they are wearing, as long as they think they can get away with it. sure walking alone at night makes you more of a target (which must be avoided as much as possible), but its not to say that its impossible to get raped during the day too if you are walking home alone. rapists are people with sick minds and will rape anyone with a good chance. obviously the poor woman made a mistake that unfortunately had big consequences, but havnt we all made mistakes?

    also, i have to question whether she actually was alone or not, doesnt say it in the quotes - even if she was alone, no need to assume. and as for eamon, i hope that he just didnt realise how unsensitive he sounded, rather than he actually didnt care.

    as for OP, you should use the word cautious rather than 'taking responsibility' -the women should be cautious but it is the rapist who is responsible. and you quote the word 'rights' like we dont have any - its not just a saying, women actually do have rights smartass.

    BOTH are responsible.
    The rapist is sick and should not have done it, but she should take responsibility for her own safety. We don't live in a land of ****ing cotton so why did she act like we do? And no, no one has "rights". That is just liberal bull**** which people use as an excuse to do stupid things.
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    (Original post by aspiringwhatever)
    mhm yeh maybe you have a lot of spare cash, but i live in london and getting a 20-30 pound cab home definitely isn't an option for me or my friends because we are poor students. I think you shouldn't have to be scared, I mean I have taken the night bus home alone and I live in a ****ty place, and I never ever felt scared or threatened.
    You don't have to have a lot of cash to walk home in a group or arrange for a mate to pick you up.
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    OP why do you put 'rights' in quotation marks? Are you sceptical of the fact women don't deserve to be raped? Do you think women do and that it is just a dreadful fact of modern life that it is not acceptable to force yourself on some poor woman?

    Fact: Short skirts and walking home late at night don't cause rape. Rapists do.

    Of course women need to be careful about our safety, particularly late at night but we do not need people like you telling us to do so. We have been told this since we were little girls and our parents told us 'Not to go out dressed like that'.

    Plenty of women have been raped by taxi drivers, plenty of women are raped when they are wearing jeans, they are raped by boy friends, husbands, family members, friends and not by complete strangers in alleyways. What are they supposed to have done to protect themselves?

    If there was an easy solution to stop rape then it would have been done, please don't act like we are bringing it upon ourselves simply by having two X chromosomes.
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    (Original post by Steezy)
    I think most men know not to rape. Even the ones who rape know they could get in serious trouble.
    Except for that they probably won't. Conviction rates for reported rapes are exceptionally low, unless you get a rape kit performed straight away, and an awful lot of women are scared/ashamed about coming forwards anyway. To be honest, given the amount of reported rapes that make it to trial and the amount of those trials that then end in a conviction, I really doubt that many people are put off by the legal ramifications.

    (Original post by sollythewise)
    much easier and more practical to tell the 99% of women who are sensible and normal how to stay safe than to try getting the 1% of dangerous men to behave properly. rapists are'nt going to listen to us telling them not to rape
    The problem is that we seem to see 'rapists' as a completely different breed of human being, rather than as people who've raped someone. I'm not defending rapists, just saying that it's not always as clear-cut as being a random man down a dark alleyway.

    If you have sex with someone too drunk to say no, you've raped them. If you have sex with someone who went along with it rather than actively wanting to, you've raped them. If you're consensually kissing someone, and then you decide to have sex with them and assume that them kissing you was consent to have sex with you, you may have raped them. If you say something like 'tell me if you want me to stop' as opposed to 'is it ok if I do this?', you're placing the person you're having sex with in a position where they have to actively tell you to stop - and what if they're scared of you or feel like they couldn't say no, even if they want to? It's a very, very grey area in a lot of cases. It's not just this event committed at night by horrible predatory men.

    whereas women (usually) will listen to good advice about staying safe. i say usually because some of them decide to moan instead, as this thread demonstrates.
    Fun fact: whenever women complain about something that affects them (sexism, rape, etc) they get labelled as 'moaning' or 'hysterical' or 'shrill' or whatever.
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    You don't have to have a lot of cash to walk home in a group or arrange for a mate to pick you up.
    but I am not always out with a group of people. It's wrong that I can't do normal things like walk home on my own or take the night bus because then if I get raped its my fault. No it's not, and why should I live my life differently because of some sick person out there?
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    (Original post by kerily)
    Oh thank Lord, someone talking sense. Why are we telling women not to get raped instead of telling men not to rape?

    It's not like getting a taxi is even something everyone can do. You can't always afford a taxi (especially if you're in London!), you can't always flag one down, you might not have a working phone on you (lack of credit, lack of battery) and you might have a phone but no idea of local taxi numbers. Does this mean you deserve to be raped? Obviously not.

    The point here should be 'if you see a woman walking alone at night, don't rape her' as opposed to 'if you're a woman, or have any chance of being perceived as one, don't walk around alone at night'.
    LOL, look, OP wasn't BLAMING women for not taking taxis or for getting raped. But in the real world, looking at all viable solutions for diminishing rape, self-protection is more effective (and less naïve) than rapist-blaming. There will always be robbers and murderers and rapists. That problem will never go away. The best real-life solution is self-protection.

    So OP was right in focussing on women getting taxis or walking with someone or something.

    I lived in Brazil for a few years. There are some areas of Rio in which you simply DO NOT walk into at night. And that's anybody, not just girls. I'm not saying who's to blame, I'm only pointing out that the most logical solution to the problem is awareness and protection.
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    (Original post by sollythewise)
    much easier and more practical to tell the 99% of women who are sensible and normal how to stay safe than to try getting the 1% of dangerous men to behave properly. rapists are'nt going to listen to us telling them not to rape, whereas women (usually) will listen to good advice about staying safe. i say usually because some of them decide to moan instead, as this thread demonstrates.
    Yes, I agree. There is no practical measure which you could take to condition all men not to rape people, as if they aren't aware that it is immoral and illegal to the nth degree anyway. All I wanted to bring out is that making women feel bad for being raped is the last thing they need; not taking the adequate steps to mitigate risk is not the same as it being your fault.
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    He could've at least been a little more sensitive about it.
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    You don't have to have a lot of cash to walk home in a group or arrange for a mate to pick you up.
    But you do have to have a group of friends who live in the same direction, or a friend who can drive. Not everyone has this.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    ...and some people don't care.
    Did that ever cross your mind? That some people are just bad people? :rolleyes:
    See above
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    (Original post by aspiringwhatever)
    but I am not always out with a group of people. It's wrong that I can't do normal things like walk home on my own or take the night bus because then if I get raped its my fault. No it's not, and why should I live my life differently because of some sick person out there?
    But it's never your fault if you get raped / mugged / attacked.

    The fact remains that it's still sensible to take precautions - something may be illegal and wrong but that alone isn't going to protect you. I agree you should be able to go wherever you like whenever you like without fear of getting attacked, but sadly we don't live in a society like that.
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    You don't have to have a lot of cash to walk home in a group or arrange for a mate to pick you up.
    ohh yeh and again, I live in London and am a student, I don't even know anyone that owns a car.
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    (Original post by emerset)
    LOL, look, OP wasn't BLAMING women for not taking taxis or for getting raped. But in the real world, looking at all viable solutions for diminishing rape, self-protection is more effective (and less naïve) than rapist-blaming. There will always be robbers and murderers and rapists. That problem will never go away. The best real-life solution is self-protection.

    So OP was right in focussing on women getting taxis or walking with someone or something.

    I lived in Brazil for a few years. There are some areas of Rio in which you simply DO NOT walk into at night. And that's anybody, not just girls. I'm not saying who's to blame, I'm only pointing out that the most logical solution to the problem is awareness and protection.
    Yeh. I forgot.

    No one realises that you are more likely to raped or robbed if you don't take a taxi than if you take a taxi.

    Thanks for reminding us all in case we forgot that. Stupid women.
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    (Original post by kerily)
    But you do have to have a group of friends who live in the same direction, or a friend who can drive. Not everyone has this.
    You could arrange to crash at a friends house for the night?
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    But it's never your fault if you get raped / mugged / attacked.

    The fact remains that it's still sensible to take precautions - something may be illegal and wrong but that alone isn't going to protect you. I agree you should be able to go wherever you like whenever you like without fear of getting attacked, but sadly we don't live in a society like that.
    Yes I know, but society tries to make you believe that it's your fault if you wear a skimpy dress/walk around with your phone/nice clothes or walk home at night alone. It's not, and no one should have to be obliged to pay for a cab to get home when there are much cheaper options or go out of their way by staying at someone else's house or whatever.
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    There has never been a society where it is safe to walk home at night - ever. There have been varying degrees of danger, sure, but there has never been a complete lack of crime.

    This isnt about punishing the perpetrators or blaming the victim, its about helping to prevent rape.
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    (Original post by AP1989)
    Well, yes, obviously.

    But it's no good saying that, is it? Saying that doesn't prevent her getting raped, whereas taking a taxi would have.

    Unfortunately we live in a society where it isn't particularly safe for a woman to be walking alone at night. Obviously it's sad that women can't feel safe alone at night, we would obviously love to live in a society where this wasn't an issue, but the fact is it is, as her story demonstrates.
    This is true but I think we should be making a greater effort to promote men not raping as opposed to promoting woman being safe at night or whatever.

    Attack the actual source. The truth is if it wasn't her it'd be someone else. You can't expect >50% of the population to be subject to some curfew because a minority of men have skewed ethics.

    That and it's a bit ridiculous to expect people to live in fear. It's like telling someone who got hit by a car that they obviously shouldn't have crossed the road. Well what do you expect them to do then? Never cross roads? You can't expect woman to always get a taxi on the off-chance a rapist is in the surrounding area, for solely practical reasons.

    EMZ.
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    How insensitive.

    It's a spur of the moment thing, are you going to spend £5 on a taxi, or just walk it home and save that money for another night out.

    Why should we need to take a taxi?

    We should be able to walk in late nights, without worrying about what may happen.

    Why should we change? Becuase of other peoples actions.
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    (Original post by aspiringwhatever)
    Yes I know, but society tries to make you believe that it's your fault if you wear a skimpy dress/walk around with your phone/nice clothes or walk home at night alone. It's not, and no one should have to be obliged to pay for a cab to get home when there are much cheaper options or go out of their way by staying at someone else's house or whatever.
    Again, I agree. But until we live in a society where that happens, it's still sensible to take precautions to remove yourself from a potential nasty situation.
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    (Original post by kerily)
    How are you 'tempting fate', though? I consider walking home to be a completely normal thing to do; after all, it's necessary if you've been out. It's not like you're going to any extra lengths to invite attention; you're just doing what you have to do in order to get home as soon as possible. Would you say that a man walking home through a city was 'tempting fate'?
    That's a straw man argument, and you know it. Walking home is a normal thing to do, although not a necessary one(taxi, bus, etc.). Walking home, at night, alone, in a big city, whilst drunk - and let's just be frank about this - and female, is not a wise idea. You know that the chance of your getting raped in this situation is higher than if it was during the day, you were in a group in the countryside, and sober - or even if you took a taxi. It would not be the victim's fault at all, but there are some pretty evil people about, and you shouldn't give them a chance.
 
 
 
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