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    if a muslim asked me what I thought of his religion I'd tell it like it is. not saying I'd go round shoving my views down their throats, but I wouldn't pretend I think any religion is anything other than ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Stephen857)
    I do it all the time and not just muslims but blacks as well.
    And I have a right to. If muslims insist on being a cancer on my society then I not only have a right but also a duty and responsibility to berate and challenge these ********s.

    I also have many muslims and immigrants in my class.

    For instance in my college they had an ethnic minority day. That promotes ethnic cultures.
    I openly challenged this in front of a room full of blacks and immigrants and teachers when I asked the department head how it was possible to have this when having a day that openly promotes white culture would never be considered.

    I also made comments reminding them of the fine line between promoting multiculturalism and force feeding it to people
    Your an idiot because of this:

    not just muslims but blacks as well.
    they are not mutually exclusive
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    (Original post by JohnC2211)
    What would bravery have to do with it? Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace. Your posts come across as trying to be threatening.
    Islam is peaceful, just Western media pick out the bad apples and showcases to everyone indirectly as Islam which is wrong.

    A follower of any faith doesn't represent their faith properly...... if you want to see what the faith represents then you need to go and read about it and not look at their followers.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Islam is peaceful, just Western media pick out the bad apples and showcases to everyone indirectly as Islam which is wrong.

    A follower of any faith doesn't represent their faith properly...... if you want to see what the faith represents then you need to go and read about it and not look at their followers.
    Peaceful, huh? Don't BS me with the whole 'islam is peacful' line. It is completely untrue and Islam should be shown up for what it really does - divide societies and encourage animosity towards non-muslims. It's no wonder Muslims have caused the greatest number of deaths against Americans in terrorist attacks - just look at your own holy books:

    Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

    Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

    Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

    Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

    Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

    Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

    Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

    Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

    Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

    Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

    Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

    Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

    Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."

    Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.' So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A Little work, but a great reward.'"

    Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"

    Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights."

    Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."

    Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

    Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."

    Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."

    Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    So, how do muslims defend the fact that their religion teaches them to kill non-believers?
    It doesn't. And before you quote a verse which you have no knowledge about, go learn about the social+historical context. I am not one of those Muslims trying to claim Islam doesn't teach certain things, for instance, I fully acknowledge and support the death penalty for a man who engages in homosexual behaviour, but what your claiming is a lie; only under VERY specific circumstances is it allowed

    EDIT: too late I suppose .
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    (Original post by falseprofit)
    I find the majority of Islamic beliefs to be ridiculous. I do consider some Islamic agendas to be threatening to my desired way of life. I am particularly threatened by the idea of Islamic supremacy. I have and will continue to voice these opinions in "real world" interactions. If your question is; would I travel to Cairo and shout my opinions at the top of my lungs? Then the answer is no. I also would not go into a biker bar and shout that I think biker gangs are degenerate thugs. My sense of self preservation does not make my opinions any less valid.
    Beautifully put.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Islam is peaceful, just Western media pick out the bad apples and showcases to everyone indirectly as Islam which is wrong.

    A follower of any faith doesn't represent their faith properly...... if you want to see what the faith represents then you need to go and read about it and not look at their followers.
    No it isn't. Stop blaming Muslims and claiming that Islam is perfect.

    It's pretty much the opposite. Thankfully the majority of Muslims don't follow the Qu'ran to the word, or else we'd be in a serious amount of trouble.

    I support the majority of Muslims but I despise Islam and the Islamists it unfortunately creates.
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    It doesn't. And before you quote a verse which you have no knowledge about, go learn about the social+historical context. I am not one of those Muslims trying to claim Islam doesn't teach certain things, for instance, I fully acknowledge and support the death penalty for a man who engages in homosexual behaviour, but what your claiming is a lie; only under VERY specific circumstances is it allowed
    You support the death penalty for someone being gay? I don't agree with homosexuality and don't like it much, but I would never agree with KILLING someone over something that they have no control over. And people attack me for wanting to keep gay marriage banned! :rolleyes:

    And, as you can see from my post above, your koran has plenty of violent quotes. It does not teach peace at all. You are proof of that.
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    It doesn't. And before you quote a verse which you have no knowledge about, go learn about the social+historical context. I am not one of those Muslims trying to claim Islam doesn't teach certain things, for instance, I fully acknowledge and support the death penalty for a man who engages in homosexual behaviour, but what your claiming is a lie; only under VERY specific circumstances is it allowed

    EDIT: too late I suppose .
    This is why I don't like islam.
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    And why wouldn't people want to make these comments in front of Muslims?
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    Where did the term 'Islamophobe' come from? I sounds like someone trying to ban criticism of a religion which I believe is wrong. I personally would ban all Islamic schools as it teaches children the wrong things, it's certainly not civilised enough to be in the UK anyway. It also keeps them segregated from the rest of society.
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    Correction, I didn't say they don't have the right, I asked which of the Islamophobes on TSR (there are many) are BRAVE enough to say it in the real world, in front of Muslims.
    Is this a reference to the mad violence with which so many Muslims respond to any sort of criticism or mockery?

    Not something I would expect you to be drawing attention to.
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    It doesn't. And before you quote a verse which you have no knowledge about, go learn about the social+historical context. I am not one of those Muslims trying to claim Islam doesn't teach certain things, for instance, I fully acknowledge and support the death penalty for a man who engages in homosexual behaviour, but what your claiming is a lie; only under VERY specific circumstances is it allowed

    EDIT: too late I suppose .
    What does islam say about christians and jews?




    Qur'an 5:17 "Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'"

    Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

    Qur'an 5:72 "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"

    Qur'an 74:31 "We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease."

    Ishaq:180 "According to my information, the Apostle often sat by a young Christian slave named Jabr. The Meccans said, 'He is the one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings.' Then Allah revealed, Qur'an 16:103 'We know what they (pagans) say: "It is only a mortal man who teaches him (Muhammad). But the tongue of the man they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this (Qur'an) is pure Arabic.'"

    Qur'an 72:15 "But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell."

    Qur'an 88:1 "Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring."

    And terrorism:

    Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"

    Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

    Qur'an:8:57 "If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned."

    Ishaq:326 "If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah's enemies."

    Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land."

    Ishaq:588 "When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves."

    Tabari IX:42 "We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized."

    Murder:

    Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."

    Tabari VIII:141 "The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!'"

    Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive."

    Ishaq:489 "Do the *******s think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."

    Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."

    where does this stop?
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    What a stupid and insulting remark. Just out of interest, what signs of Islamic oppression do you see in the UK?
    I don't understand how its insulting? This isn't a remark that is based on say, Hitler, as you may assume, it is a fact that Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries were seen to be invalids who had a disgusting religion that was anti-christian; In france, Edouard Droumont was an extremely vocal french newspaper editor who actually vocalised claims that Jews were the traitors of Europe and had no place in it. I wasn't suggesting something along the lines of a holocaust or a genocide, I am just saying that the discrimination against such groups, muslim, jew or african, ring very familiar bells which are too often ignored by many TSR folk who simply equate any claim like the one I just made to something to do with Nazi Germany.

    As for Islamic Opression, little in the UK as of yet beyond ridiculous levels of surviellance, but if you look at patterns in Europe- especially in Eastern Europe as well as the Netherlands and France, you cannot be blamed for suggesting that certainly, anti-muslim sentiment is on the rise.
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    I don't understand how its insulting? This isn't a remark that is based on say, Hitler, as you may assume, it is a fact that Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries were seen to be invalids who had a disgusting religion that was anti-christian; In france, Edouard Droumont was an extremely vocal french newspaper editor who actually vocalised claims that Jews were the traitors of Europe and had no place in it. I wasn't suggesting something along the lines of a holocaust or a genocide, I am just saying that the discrimination against such groups, muslim, jew or african, ring very familiar bells which are too often ignored by many TSR folk who simply equate any claim like the one I just made to something to do with Nazi Germany.

    As for Islamic Opression, little in the UK as of yet beyond ridiculous levels of surviellance, but if you look at patterns in Europe- especially in Eastern Europe as well as the Netherlands and France, you cannot be blamed for suggesting that certainly, anti-muslim sentiment is on the rise.
    With all due respect, it's hardly surprising - quite a few Westerners have been killed for criticising Islam in their own country.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)



    Irrelevant.
    I don't think it's entirely irellevant. Anti-Muslim sentiment is certainly on the rise throughout Europe, without any real logical credence beyond the fact that they are portrayed as an alien culture that are incompatible with the west, which is similar to this time in Europe. I didn't say anything about genocides and stuff, but certainly when you look at the hostility toward jewish people in public life, even in countries like Britain and even the USA, there are some common features with Muslims. Albeit there is historical hindsight and laws which prevent such ferverent discrimination, but that dosent make many muslims, especially those who do wish to show their faith outwardly by growing beards or wearing hijabs, any more comfortable in the public sphere.
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    :lolwut: You identify yourself as an Islamophobe?
    LMAO!

    Criticising certain aspects of Islam =/= being an Islamophobe.

    I don't have a moral problem with criticising Islam to Muslims' faces, but I generally find them to be objectionable, violent people, so probably wouldn't actually do it.
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    I don't understand how its insulting? This isn't a remark that is based on say, Hitler, as you may assume, it is a fact that Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries were seen to be invalids who had a disgusting religion that was anti-christian; In france, Edouard Droumont was an extremely vocal french newspaper editor who actually vocalised claims that Jews were the traitors of Europe and had no place in it. I wasn't suggesting something along the lines of a holocaust or a genocide, I am just saying that the discrimination against such groups, muslim, jew or african, ring very familiar bells which are too often ignored by many TSR folk who simply equate any claim like the one I just made to something to do with Nazi Germany.

    As for Islamic Opression, little in the UK as of yet beyond ridiculous levels of surviellance, but if you look at patterns in Europe- especially in Eastern Europe as well as the Netherlands and France, you cannot be blamed for suggesting that certainly, anti-muslim sentiment is on the rise.
    I think you are mistaking who are the oppressed and who are the oppressors. Jews, you must remember, are not only religious Jews, but ethnic Jews as well. Persecuting someone based on race is much different to persecuting someone based on religion.

    Also, I do not recall any Jewish terrorist attacks, fatwas (obviously, the Jewish equivalent, if such a thing exists) or burning down of buildings due to being offended or by us simply being 'infidels'.

    Lastly, anti-Muslim sentiment is on the rise because Islam is becoming much more of a present force in Europe. Many people, myself included, do not like this because they do not like the teachings or the methods of Islam. It really is that simple.
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    With all due respect, it's hardly surprising - quite a few Westerners have been killed for criticising Islam in their own country.
    Most of whom had little to do with the communities that are being watched and monitored- and it is this that is an inherent component in radicalisation, ie. If the state views me as a traitor even though I have done nothing, then why should I trust the state ?

    Such big-brother tactics have always been self defeating and exacerbate rather than solve problems.
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    I think you are mistaking who are the oppressed and who are the oppressors. Jews, you must remember, are not only religious Jews, but ethnic Jews as well. Persecuting someone based on race is much different to persecuting someone based on religion.

    Also, I do not recall any Jewish terrorist attacks, fatwas (obviously, the Jewish equivalent, if such a thing exists) or burning down of buildings due to being offended or by us simply being 'infidels'.

    Lastly, anti-Muslim sentiment is on the rise because Islam is becoming much more of a present force in Europe. Many people, myself included, do not like this because they do not like the teachings or the methods of Islam. It really is that simple.
    placing it into historical context yes- I mean this hasnt stopped other south asians from being discriminated against- or even immigrants as a whole, and in application, as someone who is in 'the Muslim community' of the UK itself, I can say that there is certainly a racial component in such discrimination, even if there is percieved not to be by certain organisations.

    But further, you need to actually look at Islam and Islamic terrorism, which even many western scholars will agree are different. The latter in its current form is a modern conception- a lot of it is rooted in geopolitics and distorted narratives in the same way that almost all religions are. Hence why most Muslims do not actively engage in such violence, and why they also get annoyed when minority groups led by Anjem Chowdhury somehow find themselves to be portrayed as the leaders of the UK Islamic Revolution.

    Finally, I do not see how Islam is becoming a more potent force in daily life; Yes, more Muslims exist that is true, but our legal system isnt at threat of being changed to Shariah law, girls arent going to be forced to wear burkas and certainly Muslims are not plotting to take over the UK government. Disagree with the teachings of Islam, I beleive that is ok- just as with every religion, but I am slightly disheartened to hear that 'Muslims' as a whole are viewed as part of a European problem.
 
 
 
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