oxbridge and resits Watch

leannemarie
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#41
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#41
But if you take Kelly for example she got a D in a History module, retook it and got an A. She's obvious not stupid but perhaps her skills had improved a lot by January and in skills based subjects then it makes more sense to retake. People who retake in other subjects seem to have not revised enough the first time and when they realise they need to do some work they actually improve.
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kellywood_5
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#42
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#42
(Original post by leannemann)
But if you take Kelly for example she got a D in a History module, retook it and got an A. She's obvious not stupid but perhaps her skills had improved a lot by January and in skills based subjects then it makes more sense to retake. People who retake in other subjects seem to have not revised enough the first time and when they realise they need to do some work they actually improve.
You'd think so....most of the people in my year who did crap at AS did no work the first time around, got rubbish results, still did no work, resat and expected to do better naturally. Not surprisingly, it didn't work and now they're all complaining about the number of exams they have this summer :rolleyes:
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kellywood_5
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#43
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(Original post by Niccolo)
Because theyre still in the general field of an A arent they?
Yeah, but your main argument against resits, ie that they're deceptive and unfair on those who do well the first time, could still be applied. If you were told someone got 297/300 at AS but not that they'd only achieved this after 2 resits, you'd think they'd done better than they actually had and you'd think they were better than someone who got 288/300 the first time.
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leannemarie
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#44
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(Original post by kellywood_5)
You'd think so....most of the people in my year who did crap at AS did no work the first time around, got rubbish results, still did no work, resat and expected to do better naturally. Not surprisingly, it didn't work and now they're all complaining about the number of exams they have this summer :rolleyes:
That's what I meant by when they realise, I should have said if. I know people who got Bs in AS modules, retook them in January and got As. But then they didn't spend enough time on A2 modules and got Ds and Es!
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paddy
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#45
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(Original post by Niccolo)
I was in a dreadful school/spanish class and two people on Ds at AS went to Bs and, 4 Cs went up to As by resitting twice. One C went up to 290, which was better than what i got first time round without any resitting, 280. In the A2 section this person got 158/300, which im sure is a D. I got 290. The whole thing is a pisstake. So your approximations of what can and cannot be done are glaringly flawed. Imagine waht can be done in a decent private school with a good spanish/french department if this is what happens where I was!
I wouldn't call them glaringly flawed. I anything you are generalising from 6 people to everyone taking A Level Spanish.
And I'm presently at a private school and trust me, it doesn't mean the teaching is better. My Spanish department are utterly shocking, sitting in their offices gloating on all the As they get at GCSE:rolleyes: They can't teach A Level at all.
I can honestly say that my Spanish hasn't actually improved since I spent 2 weeks in Malaga after AS. I had a different teacher at GCSE who drilled the grammar into us, but who was possibly the best teacher 've ever had, which meant that by AS we were all at the level required. But that was then:rolleyes:
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leannemarie
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#46
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(Original post by paddy357)
And I'm presently at a private school and trust me, it doesn't mean the teaching is better. My Spanish department are utterly shocking.
Ditto, although it is particularly one teacher and another who doesn't actually teach me!
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Niccolo
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#47
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#47
(Original post by kellywood_5)
Yeah, but your main argument against resits, ie that they're deceptive and unfair on those who do well the first time, could still be applied. If you were told someone got 297/300 at AS but not that they'd only achieved this after 2 resits, you'd think they'd done better than they actually had and you'd think they were better than someone who got 288/300 the first time.
Sorry to use football analogies, but would say there is a difference saying to someone that you played for, say, Arsenal when you actually played for Tottenham (a slightly worse team) than saying that you played for Arsenal when you actually played for Scunthorpe united. And anyway, im not condoning the fact that you can resit when you get an A. Of course people should take advantage of it while it exists, its perfectly natural and anyone with any common sense would do it. My point is that the opportunity should not be allowed to exist, all for a revolting labour government to mask the fact that people are getting stupider/more ignorant than they ever were, largely due to its own policies.
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Alan Smithee
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#48
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The chance to resit once should be allowed, on the proviso that your second mark sticks, and not the highest one.

At my college, those who did resits had to pay for them anyway.
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paddy
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Platocrates)
The chance to resit once should be allowed, on the proviso that your second mark sticks, and not the highest one.

At my college, those who did resits had to pay for them anyway.
Well everyone has to pay for them, the exam boards charge you for them.
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Ises
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#50
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#50
To be honest, I wish it was just like the old A-Levels, where you did it all at the end of the two years.
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kellywood_5
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#51
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#51
(Original post by paddylad)
Well everyone has to pay for them, the exam boards charge you for them.
Yeah, but some schools/colleges pay for resits. My school does.
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Kolya
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Niccolo)
My point is that the opportunity should not be allowed to exist, all for a revolting labour government to mask the fact that people are getting stupider/more ignorant than they ever were, largely due to its own policies.
Why should people who have roughly the same knowledge at the end of the two years receive different grades? It seems that you want to punish those who learn at a slower pace, or those who made a mistake at the start of their course. We should allow them them another chance to show what they know. I firmly think that somebody who acheived an A first time around should still receive the same grade as somebody who managed to get an A after five resits. Their knowledge of the A Level syllabus will roughly be the same at the end and therefore they should be awarded the same grade.

You have got the wrong end of the stick. Stopping resits is not the way to make A Levels more difficult. You need to increase the actual difficulty of the questions on the test to do this. This method is far more fair and beneficial to all than stopping resits.
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Niccolo
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Baal_k)
Why should people who have roughly the same knowledge at the end of the two years receive different grades? It seems that you want to punish those who learn at a slower pace, or those who made a mistake at the start of their course. We should allow them them another chance to show what they know. I firmly think that somebody who acheived an A first time around should still receive the same grade as somebody who managed to get an A after five resits. Their knowledge of the A Level syllabus will roughly be the same at the end and therefore they should be awarded the same grade.

You have got the wrong end of the stick. Stopping resits is not the way to make A Levels more difficult. You need to increase the actual difficulty of the questions on the test to do this. This method is far more fair and beneficial to all than stopping resits.
So if an employer/competitive university actively looks for people who learn quickly/do not need to repeat things god knows how many times to get it right, you think its fair that someone who does 5 resits gets the same grade as someone whp gets an A after their first attempt? Thats disgusting, and totally fraudulent, unless their certificate is clearly marked 'RESIT' with the number of attempts next to it. If this was the case then id have no problem at all.
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ThornsnRoses
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#54
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(Original post by Niccolo)
So if an employer/competitive university actively looks for people who learn quickly/do not need to repeat things god knows how many times to get it right, you think its fair that someone who does 5 resits gets the same grade as someone whp gets an A after their first attempt? Thats disgusting, and totally fraudulent, unless their certificate is clearly marked 'RESIT' with the number of attempts next to it. If this was the case then id have no problem at all.
I agree, they should declare the grades you got at each retake. Because its also not fair on people who are told to retake by their schools, who for example already achieved As but need/want higher As to be lumped in with the people who get Ds and retake to get As or whatever grades.

I don’t think retakes should be disallowed because if you have the potential to get an A, why not be given the opportunity? Although, I do appreciate the problem with allowing retakes for subjects like Maths, and languages.
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Kolya
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#55
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(Original post by Niccolo)
So if an employer/competitive university actively looks for people who learn quickly/do not need to repeat things god knows how many times to get it right, you think its fair that someone who does 5 resits gets the same grade as someone whp gets an A after their first attempt?
This is not the purpose of the A Level examinations. If one was to take a look at a typical specification then they would find an overview like this:

"This History specification encourages candidates to develop their
capacity for critical thinking and to see relationships between the
different aspects of history in its broader perspectives, such as
between its political, economic, social and cultural dimensions, and to
appreciate the diversities of societies, developments affecting different
groups, the significance of events and issues, and the role of
individuals within them. "

No where in the overview does it refer to "learning quickly". That is NOT the purpose of the examination.

You refer to the needs of employers; but most A Levels are not voactional. They are an academic qualification and therefore should provide an academic education, not necessarily preparing them for work. Vocational qualifications prepare people for work, so your point may stand for these, but not for most A Levels.

You do not need to be good in academia to be a good employee, and a good academic does not necessarily make a good employer. Unfortunatly you have become confused over the two distinct areas.

(Original post by Niccolo)
Thats disgusting, and totally fraudulent
Just a little advice, if the idea of the exam system makes you nauseous or physically sick then I would consult a doctor.
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Niccolo
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Baal_k)
This is not the purpose of the A Level examinations. If one was to take a look at a typical specification then they would find an overview like this:

"This History specification encourages candidates to develop their
capacity for critical thinking and to see relationships between the
different aspects of history in its broader perspectives, such as
between its political, economic, social and cultural dimensions, and to
appreciate the diversities of societies, developments affecting different
groups, the significance of events and issues, and the role of
individuals within them. "

No where in the overview does it refer to "learning quickly". That is NOT the purpose of the examination.

You refer to the needs of employers; but most A Levels are not voactional. They are an academic qualification and therefore should provide an academic education, not necessarily preparing them for work. Vocational qualifications prepare people for work, so your point may stand for these, but not for most A Levels.

You do not need to be good in academia to be a good employee, and a good academic does not necessarily make a good employer. Unfortunatly you have become confused over the two distinct areas.



Just a little advice, if the idea of the exam system makes you nauseous or physically sick then I would consult a doctor.
I cant even be bothered to do a point by point critique of the irredeemably dodgy comments that you have made.
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Kolya
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#57
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#57
Shall I simplify it for you?

-Most A Levels are an academic qualification.

-Academic qualifications are often not a good indication of a good employee/worker.

-Hence employers should not (and do not) rely on A Levels for a good employee.

-This implies A Levels do not need to avoid resits as their inherent purpose is not to produce a good employee (as you define one), which resits could compromise.

Therefore resits should be allowed.
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rachel-linguist
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#58
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#58
As I think I have already said on this thread, the problem is not with resits but with AS exams. What is the point of testing candidates half way through a two year course? you've only learnt half the content and more importantly only learnt half the skills. Plus they just add unnecessary stress at a time when we should be enjoying the last few years at school.
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ThornsnRoses
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#59
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Baal K, you don't seem to have got the essence of the problem. The problem being you could easily cheat people and yourself into getting an A. You have two years effectively to learn As material, and its not really that challenging to drill in. You than can have 3 tries at it - score high on an easy paper and you've done well. You can then breeze through the A2 material and get a much lower grade and still get an A or a B - how then by attaining that grade have you met the specific requirements of the qualification for that particular grade?

How is someone who achieved an A grade in history by scoring As on all their modules the same calibre as someone who retook 3 times, got really high As’s and then Cs at A2s? I’m sorry to say, they DO NOT have the same level of skill, despite what the specification aims to do, because the requirements for A2 and As are so different.

I don’t think they should ban retakes entirely (and if they did, I’m not complaining), just put a limit to them or make previously accomplished grades available.

And with all respect I think the Alevel system is a bit of a joke, it genuinely undermines clever or actually talented people.
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ThornsnRoses
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#60
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(Original post by rachel-linguist)
As I think I have already said on this thread, the problem is not with resits but with AS exams. What is the point of testing candidates half way through a two year course? you've only learnt half the content and more importantly only learnt half the skills. Plus they just add unnecessary stress at a time when we should be enjoying the last few years at school.
That’s true, but having gone through it and knowing that I only need to take two more exams for each subject in June, with some kind of security with my As grades is much more relieving than worrying about 50 exams.
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