Turn on thread page Beta

"British culture": destroyed by immigrants? watch

Announcements
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Johnny)
    Switzerland, the Spanish Netherlands in the 16th century. There are tonnes.
    The Spanish Netherlands? There's a clue in the title.

    Switzerland I cantonned already.

    Tonnes more please?
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    What was wrong with the Old Britain?
    It was in terrible decline. It's empire was disolving, its economy was in shambles, it was grimy and polluted. Just read a few Dickens/ Post-War period novels and you will see.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    The Spanish Netherlands? There's a clue in the title.

    Switzerland I cantonned already.

    Tonnes more please?
    The US of A. And don't try to invent problems. This is the most powerful nation on Earth made up of every person being an immigrant fro a different race/ethnicity.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    Let us not forget Rome, Great Britain, Germany and many others.
    They all had a dominant culture. They were empires created by force and ruled by oppression. Their ends were down to ethnic revolt too!
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    They all had a dominant culture. They were empires created by force and ruled by oppression. Their ends were down to ethnic revolt too!
    Doesn't that describe the whole world until recently?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    The US of A. And don't try to invent problems. This is the most powerful nation on Earth made up of every person being an immigrant fro a different race/ethnicity.
    For all of it's history, even today, it has had tiers of citizenship, unequal rights, and unequal laws! It's riven by interracial tension and that tension is a mjor force in the domestic politics of the country.

    Indians live on ****ing reservations ff!
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    Doesn't that describe the whole world until recently?
    It describes your examples which you selected to show the opposite traits Sol.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    The Spanish Netherlands? There's a clue in the title.

    Switzerland I cantonned already.

    Tonnes more please?
    Yet more of your ignorance shines through. The netherlands comprised speakers of Walloon and French among other dialects, yet the estates general granted all citizens equal rights.

    The Spanish Netherlands was just its official name genius.

    At a later date it was called the 'United Provinces' after they overthrew spanish rule in 1581. The same points still apply.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    The UN?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    It was in terrible decline. It's empire was disolving, its economy was in shambles, it was grimy and polluted. Just read a few Dickens/ Post-War period novels and you will see.
    The Old Britain in a spiritual sense of self I meant. I think those qualities are all too aaparent in the most diverse areas of the New Britain, certainly the CRE and similar types make much of those hopeless skies across non-White Britain.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Johnny)
    Yet more of your ignorance shines through. The netherlands comprised speakers of Walloon and French among other dialects, yet the estates general granted all citizens equal rights.

    The Spanish Netherlands was just its official name genius.
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...etherlands.htm

    Go away!
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    For all of it's history, even today, it has had tiers of citizenship, unequal rights, and unequal laws! It's riven by interracial tension and that tension is a mjor force in the domestic politics of the country.

    Indians live on ****ing reservations ff!
    History. Key word. Look at the US now. It has far fewer problems that most nations. And Indians are no longer forced to sit on reservations. Many still live their because of families and communitied.

    You seem to talk about multi-_____ societies falling apart, would AO seek to provide us with some examples of a single-ethnic/race nation that has survived and thrived without problems, all out of his extensive wisdom?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Laika, chemistboy, Sol, others...the British are an especially open minded people who enjoy learning and adopting new mores, memes and manners form other peoples. Mass immigration and rejection and replacement of the old Britain and it's national stock and identity need not be a part of that. When you force these things on a people - reactionary and violent responses are to be expected.
    I don't really recognise "old britain" as we have never had a "stock identity" and we aren't much older than the US as a single political entity. Perhaps you should refer to "old england", "old wales", "old scotland" and "old ireland". The point is that we already have cultural difference within the "indigenous" population of our nation.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...etherlands.htm

    Go away!
    Ooh a GCSE-level site. That proves you right of course.

    The spanish Netherlands united to form the United Provinces, despite having different dialects and cultures.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    History. Key word. Look at the US now. It has far fewer problems that most nations. And Indians are no longer forced to sit on reservations. Many still live their because of families and communitied.

    You seem to talk about multi-_____ societies falling apart, would AO seek to provide us with some examples of a single-ethnic/race nation that has survived and thrived without problems, all out of his extensive wisdom?
    "even today," key words.

    There are no long lived substantially multi-ethnic/racial/religious states. None! Not one without a self-consciously dominant culture has survived into our era for any measure of time.

    Contrast England. Japan. China.

    I'm three up just for naming 3 of my faves.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Johnny)
    Ooh a GCSE-level site. That proves you right of course.

    The spanish Netherlands united to form the United Provinces, despite having different dialects and cultures.
    If there's anything incorrect in there which alters things, point it out. You replied to: "Can anyone think of a successful society which did not have a dominant culture? Can anyone think of an example where different groups have managed to live together, on equal footing, whilst retaining their different religions, languages, and cultural traditions?" There was a dominant culture, there wasn't an equal footing, the different religions, languages, and cultural traditions brought about the ruin. You shouldn't shout about it!
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    I don't really recognise "old britain" as we have never had a "stock identity" and we aren't much older than the US as a single political entity. Perhaps you should refer to "old england", "old wales", "old scotland" and "old ireland". The point is that we already have cultural difference within the "indigenous" population of our nation.
    I have been quite at pains to point out that the Old Britain was an amalgam of the different national identities of the British peoples, Scots, Welsh and English.

    Even then, there is a solid ground for using the somewhat archaic racial "stock," in a modern environment where so much of what divides us is down to the usually true assumptions of loyalty and ultimate interest which are written into our physical appearances. The rest of what divides us is the secret and hidden loyalties which the 7/7 bombers concealed so well.

    http://majorityrights.com/index.php/...themselves_up/
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    History. Key word. Look at the US now. It has far fewer problems that most nations. And Indians are no longer forced to sit on reservations. Many still live their because of families and communitied.

    You seem to talk about multi-_____ societies falling apart, would AO seek to provide us with some examples of a single-ethnic/race nation that has survived and thrived without problems, all out of his extensive wisdom?
    I don't think you'll find one. However, you will find that, throughout history, people have reaped the benefits of immigration and other cultures without holding a Blairite view of 'multiculturalism'. If the great works of Byzantium were written today, we would definitley describe them as being the work of 'supremacists'. How else could you describe works which labeled all foreign peoples as 'barbarians'? However, Byzantium wasn't a 'single-race' society. While the Greeks may have had a 'racist' assurance of their own superiority, the empire was one of the most cosmopolitan places in the world. Many foreigners could be found in the capital, the armies were staffed with mercenaries from both the East and the West.

    At the end of the day, I don't see why a similar kind of system couldn't work again. Indeed it would keep everyone happy. If our culture was to be protected and enthusiastically protected it would keep the majority of the publuic, along with the BNP brigade, happy and if the borders were left open but more tightly controlled, then we could still reap the harvest of foreign culture.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    "even today," key words.

    There are no long lived substantially multi-ethnic/racial/religious states. None! Not one without a self-consciously dominant culture has survived into our era for any measure of time.

    Contrast England. Japan. China.

    I'm three up just for naming 3 of my faves.
    You make me laugh.

    England? What 'English Culture"? Do you mean a Southern or Northern Culture? An upper class culture, or a lower class culture? And England has been continuously invaded or ruled by foreigners whose culture became dominant. So do you speak of a pre-Indo-European Culture? or a Celtic Culture? or an Anglo-Saxon culture? or a Norman Culture? or a Franco-Aristocratic Culture? or a Germano-Victorian culture? What dominant culture do you choose.

    Japan? 65-55 years ago the Japanese were so assured of their Homogenous ethinicity/race that they were commiting atrocities against half the world.

    China? China was been multi-ethnic for the past 800 years. Two of the last three Imperial dynasties were non-Chinese. Under the Manchus China reached its greates borders. Under the Manchus China's culture was a Hybrid of Manchu-Mongolian and Chinese elements. Then when the Manchus were expelled, the new republic collapsed and China was plagued by civil war and defeat in wars against Japan. Then let us not forget Communist rule, and the greatest part of that was the cultural revolution, in which the Chinese systematically destroyed their own culture.

    AO, you better stop backing up your unfounded ideas with a less than GCSE History examples.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
    I don't think you'll find one. However, you will find that, throughout history, people have reaped the benefits of immigration and other cultures without holding a Blairite view of 'multiculturalism'. If the great works of Byzantium were written today, we would definitley describe them as being the work of 'supremacists'. How else could you describe works which labeled all foreign peoples as 'barbarians'? However, Byzantium wasn't a 'single-race' society. While the Greeks may have had a 'racist' assurance of their own superiority, the empire was one of the most cosmopolitan places in the world. Many foreigners could be found in the capital, the armies were staffed with mercenaries from both the East and the West.

    At the end of the day, I don't see why a similar kind of system couldn't work again. Indeed it would keep everyone happy. If our culture was to be protected and enthusiastically protected it would keep the majority of the publuic, along with the BNP brigade, happy and if the borders were left open but more tightly controlled, then we could still reap the harvest of foreign culture.
    I reap the harvest of foreign culture without needing immigration, empire (one and the same) and all of it's moral problems. And I think we in Britain are especially capable of enjoying those pursuits without having ourselves (as nations connected to the past) destroyed. I do think that less robust and environmentally secure cultures and peoples are positively harmed and sometimes eventually destroyed by imperialism, even cultural.

    There is no need for a new Byzantium or Greece, but there is a need to respect the poples and cultures that we have today, and to wish all of them well.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 25, 2006
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.