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    (Original post by Laika)
    Try and consider the people who live in Africa as actual human beings and you might begin to grasp it.
    Intelligent comment :rolleyes:

    I can grasp that both people here and people there are human beings. However, the human beings that matter more to me are the ones that have worked there whole lives, paying taxes for this country. After this, for them to have their tax money wasted on Africa especially in light of articles like this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4892976.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4876374.stm

    I find plain ridiculous.

    Give as much of your money to Africa as you want, donate your whole wage to Africa I don't care. But the Government, which in my mind is supposed to look after the people it Governs over (isn't that what we elect them to do?) shouldn't be letting them die of cancer or be underfunding the health service in favour of (perhaps) educating children in Africa.

    By the way feel free to swap our Africa for USA, Spain whatever. The issue for me isn't who the money is going to it's the fact the money is going anywhere but here.

    Andrew
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    No, its completely wrong.

    Feel free to show me a letter which says 'Dear Sir, the government would like to inform you that all your tax money is being sent to Africa'.
    The point it you can't pinpoint exactly where your families money went. The point I'm making is that services in this country are improving and continuing to improve.
    I knew some "smart" person would give an arguement like this. Equally prove that all of our tax money hasn't gone in this £8.5 Billion donation to Africa...

    See my point?

    Andrew
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    The issue for me isn't who the money is going to it's the fact the money is going anywhere but here.
    Go look at how much money the labour government puts into our public services then make that statement.
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    I knew some "smart" person would give an arguement like this. Equally prove that all of our tax money hasn't gone in this £8.5 Billion donation to Africa...

    See my point?

    Andrew
    No I dont. Lets just say all your families tax money went to Africa. It just means all of another family's(of equal wealth) will go to services in this country, but that is not how it works. What does it matter?

    Mike
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    Go look at how much money the labour government puts into our public services then make that statement.
    Look at my links for crying out loud.

    I don't care how much money is going into the public services, £8.5Billion more than any figure you pull out of the bag would make a hell of a lot of difference to the people of this country.

    Andrew
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    No I dont. Lets just say all your families tax money went to Africa. It just means all of another family's(of equal wealth) will go to services in this country, but that is not how it works. What does it matter?

    Mike
    Great you finally get it. All of my money is going to Africa, all of your money to our health service.

    Don't you think the NHS would have more chance if both of our tax contributions went to it (or other public services)?

    It matters.

    Andrew
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    Look at my links for crying out loud.

    I don't care how much money is going into the public services, £8.5Billion more than any figure you pull out of the bag would make a hell of a lot of difference to the people of this country.

    Andrew
    Makes more of a difference to those in Africa. £8.5 billion is a huge sum of money but the point is services here are very good, Africa on the other hand needs this money desperately. Would you deny children the right to an education or basic health care?

    Mike
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    Great you finally get it. All of my money is going to Africa, all of your money to our health service.

    Don't you think the NHS would have more chance if both of our tax contributions went to it (or other public services)?

    It matters.

    Andrew
    We give aid because we have morals.(As a country I mean).
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    Makes more of a difference to those in Africa.
    Remind yourself of that comment after your loved one waits weeks for a vital operation, only to catch MRSA, be ferried between hospitals in search of bed then die of breast cancer because her NHS trust can't afford Herceptin.

    Remind yourself of that when another couple of thousand pensioners die of hypothermia this Winter because they can't afford to pay their heating bill.

    etc etc

    Lets get this country sorted before giving so much to others, that's all I ask.

    Andrew
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    We give aid because we have morals.(As a country I mean).
    I think my above post answers this comment too.

    Andrew
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    Remind yourself of that comment after your loved one waits weeks for a vital operation, only to catch MRSA, be ferried between hospitals in search of bed then die of breast cancer because her NHS trust can't afford Herceptin.

    Remind yourself of that when another couple of thousand pensioners die of hypothermia this Winter because they can't afford to pay their heating bill.

    etc etc

    Lets get this country sorted before giving so much to others, that's all I ask.

    Andrew
    The Government is already taking measures to improve both situations you mentioned.
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    The Government is already taking measures to improve both situations you mentioned.
    We're going round in circles now, so I'm going to withdraw from this thread for a bit.

    Would these measures of the Governments not be helped by an extra £8.5Billion though?

    I thought so...

    Andrew
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    (Original post by Dhesi)
    The Government is already taking measures to improve both situations you mentioned.
    Will donating money away from the NHS make the service better or worse, in your judgment?
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    Bismarck Why aren’t you more positive? Global poverty is one of the conservative parties key chalanges, you should be far more optimistic and I think it would be a good idea if you offered some solutions to the problem.

    http://www.globalpovertychallenge.com/
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    (Original post by BirchyGreen)
    When 40,000 OAP's die in this country every winter of hyperthermia because they cant afford to heat their homes, i think this kind of outlay is an absolute disgrace.
    Bull****. 40,000 people don't die because of that, it is a mixture of factors. Do you really think a bit of cold kills old people in such numbers? Why should we have to support decrepid wrinklies who haven't bothered to save for a pension? They are a drain on our resources!

    Aid, trade and debt relief will bring Africa to a new level. It will create a continent that we can trade with. Surely a new trading CONTINENT would be better than a few thousand old people who serve no purpose?
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    (Original post by DemonDemonic)
    Bismarck Why aren’t you more positive? Global poverty is one of the conservative parties key chalanges, you should be far more optimistic and I think it would be a good idea if you offered some solutions to the problem.

    http://www.globalpovertychallenge.com/
    The solution is to let every African country deal with their own problems, just like China, India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore dealt with theirs. As long as those countries are receiving massive handouts (massive relative to the size of the African economies), they have absolutely no reason to reform their economies or to battle corruption. I'd also get rid of the agricultural subsidies, but the effect of that is not going to be very large until the above problems are sorted out.

    And just because something is a problem doesn't mean you could solve it just by throwing money at it, though you are a socialist, and that's your typical solution to all problems.
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    (Original post by Anne Auraque)
    Bull****. 40,000 people don't die because of that, it is a mixture of factors. Do you really think a bit of cold kills old people in such numbers? Why should we have to support decrepid wrinklies who haven't bothered to save for a pension? They are a drain on our resources!
    Do you propose that there is a cut- off point, after which one's life is of no value?
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    Wow, ₤8,500,000,000!!! I wonder how many Presidential Palaces that will buy for the continents Dictators!
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    Don't all miss the point here. Our services need all the investment they can get, why are we sending money to Africa while the situation at home is so poor?

    Andrew
    The UK's not exactly underfunded - this amount works out at something like 0.15% of total government spending over the timeframe (the aid is over 10 years).
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    (Original post by andyukguy)
    Remind yourself of that comment after your loved one waits weeks for a vital operation, only to catch MRSA, be ferried between hospitals in search of bed then die of breast cancer because her NHS trust can't afford Herceptin.

    Remind yourself of that when another couple of thousand pensioners die of hypothermia this Winter because they can't afford to pay their heating bill.

    etc etc

    Lets get this country sorted before giving so much to others, that's all I ask.

    Andrew
    You think that these problems are down to underfunding? The NHS gets about £246m a day and you think it's problems could be solved by throwing more money at it? You think that if this tiny amount (and it is tiny by government standards) was not sent to Africa the UK would suddenly improve tenfold?
 
 
 
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