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which broadband is the best??? watch

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    (Original post by technik)
    past experience has taught us that charging stupidly low fees will a) lead the company into bankruptcy or b) lead the company to provide a service worse than the NHS manages!

    i wouldnt touch this carphone warehouse deal with a barge pole and i hope other providers are smart enough to keep charging enough to provide a good service.
    Penetraion pricing is used all the time, and often a well established company in other markets will employ it. carphone warehouse are the largest mobile phone seller in europe and have the financial clout to do this.

    People, think they will lose too much money through this, but the markets seem not to as their share prices are rallying.

    If they are below below operational costs (average variable costs), it would be illegal as it would be predatory pricing. So its safe to say, in the longrun they aren't going to go bankrupt nor should they provide a shoddy service.
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    (Original post by Gnarl)
    Wanadoo braodband. No caps at any speed:

    512kbps ~ £17.99
    1mbps ~ £21.99
    2mbps ~ £29.99

    monthly.
    They would love to have you believe that. Look under their small print for the Fair Usage policy - basically it says 'we will cap you if you are in the top 2% of users by bandwidth'

    The only two ISP's that I know of that have totally uncapped services (read, no bandwidth limit and no fair usage policy) are Zen Internet and AOL.... but Zen have now I think brought in capping (at 50Gb).
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    (Original post by GerardT)
    They would love to have you believe that. Look under their small print for the Fair Usage policy - basically it says 'we will cap you if you are in the top 2% of users by bandwidth'

    The only two ISP's that I know of that have totally uncapped services (read, no bandwidth limit and no fair usage policy) are Zen Internet and AOL.... but Zen have now I think brought in capping (at 50Gb).
    Who would download in excess of 50GB? You'd have to be running a server or something. In which case a residential line should not be used.
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    p2p, torrents....
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    (Original post by rahmed)
    p2p, torrents....
    So you're going to be downloading 50GB of video a month? Thats over 110 hrs of video using xvid.

    I download a lot and only reach 30 very rarely.
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    yes, i know a friend who downloads that much
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    we as a household would surpass 50Gb a month - we have 5 computers running wirelessly off one connection.
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    how much does that slow the connection down. 5 computers?!
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    (Original post by GerardT)
    we as a household would surpass 50Gb a month - we have 5 computers running wirelessly off one connection.
    What are the computers normally used for?
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    (Original post by rahmed)
    how much does that slow the connection down. 5 computers?!
    It's only noticeably slower when we're all downloading/torrenting/online gaming at once. Just browsing the net the slowerness (new word that) is hardly noticeable. The line is 2mb by the way.
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    (Original post by GerardT)
    It's only noticeably slower when we're all downloading/torrenting/online gaming at once. Just browsing the net the slowerness (new word that) is hardly noticeable. The line is 2mb by the way.
    What proportion of you're usage(bandwidth wise) is torrenting?
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    (Original post by rahmed)
    yes, i know a friend who downloads that much
    What does he do, get a new harddrive every 2 months?
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    (Original post by ghost101)
    Penetraion pricing is used all the time, and often a well established company in other markets will employ it. carphone warehouse are the largest mobile phone seller in europe and have the financial clout to do this.

    People, think they will lose too much money through this, but the markets seem not to as their share prices are rallying.

    If they are below below operational costs (average variable costs), it would be illegal as it would be predatory pricing. So its safe to say, in the longrun they aren't going to go bankrupt nor should they provide a shoddy service.
    problem is the UK now has a relatively mature broadband market. its now nearly 6 years since it was rolled out across the major cities and most other towns have had it for a few years or more. the UK now has about 10 million broadband connections in operation for a population of around 60 million. dont forget that 1 connection often serves multiple people.

    many agree that the vast majority of those who want broadband already have it and as such there is no new market for these sorts of companies, with their pricing, to plunder. most of their business is going to come from users already on broadband migrating in.

    cable and wireless, through their bulldog brand, are finding this out. they planned to throw millions of pounds at upgrading and installing their own kit all over the UK. problem is, with the market being as it is, it would take them years to even break even let alone make any decent return on the investments. as such, their ideas are scaling down.

    the current fashion seems to be for big players to buy up smaller players in different areas. sky (tv based) buying the likes of easynet for an internet presence. NTL buying telewest and virgin to get a mobile phone element. the carphone warehouse have their own fixed line networks already, run through a subsidiary, and we all know of their mobile operations. the common theme is companies buying each other out so they can offer internet, fixed line, mobile phone and possibly TV in one package. other smaller outfits seem to be buying each other out in a specific area - like pipex buying other ISPs, and people like plusnet and tiscali getting together to offer services. they've caught on that being a small outfit focussed in one area will never get you anywhere.

    the sums involved in the buy outs, advertising, setting up the new products and services amongst others isn't pennies. the other common theme seems to be the belief that lower prices are better. the figures dont inspire me with much confidence.

    if the companies involved creating networks and services rely on numbers that amount to making some sort of profit in some number of years down the line then expect big casualties. im no expert in economics or business but im pretty sure that all successful businesses always try to stay in the black.

    share prices are also a bit dodgy. plusnet lost about 1/4 of its share value in the space of a few days in the last week or two.

    the trend seems to be towards offering your phone and internet together and possibly other things like mobile tariffs and possibly TV services. look at the current pricing and what you pay for all the services you currently use - your phone line, the broadband isp charge, your mobile or sky/cable if you have any. then look at the substantial drops in price that are being touted around the net. of course merging and having companies offering all of these and more will lower the prices somewhat but dont expect to be paying bargain basement prices for all your service - and if you are dont be surprised if you wake up one morning to find the company has smashed.

    personally i'd prefer to pay a bit more cash to get a proper service. each and everytime, in IT/comms, a provider offers a service for buttons money, the service is worth buttons and it soon falls down.
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    TalkTalk have free broadband now. Well strictly speaking, its £20.99 for broadband, line rental and all calls free including international. Sounds good. Its 40gb a month download.
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    (Original post by digitalparadox)
    TalkTalk have free broadband now. Well strictly speaking, its £20.99 for broadband, line rental and all calls free including international. Sounds good. Its 40gb a month download.
    free is sometimes good...but you'd rather spend £20 on a watch out of argos than use one you get "free" in a cereal packet wouldnt you?

    quality of service on free products will be dismal especially if they manage to sign up a fair amount of people
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    (Original post by ghost101)
    What does he do, get a new harddrive every 2 months?
    You do know you can get PC's like Dell's shipping with 1 and 1.5 Tb hard-drives now, right?

    At 50Gb a month then you're talking years to fill that.
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    (Original post by GerardT)
    You do know you can get PC's like Dell's shipping with 1 and 1.5 Tb hard-drives now, right?

    At 50Gb a month then you're talking years to fill that.
    lot of people don't have that amount of hard disk capacity though, infact most will have nowhere near that.
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    (Original post by technik)
    free is sometimes good...but you'd rather spend £20 on a watch out of argos than use one you get "free" in a cereal packet wouldnt you?

    quality of service on free products will be dismal especially if they manage to sign up a fair amount of people
    But why does cheap mean poor quality service, cheap could imply mean smaller profit margins. Smaller profit margins doesnt suggest that they are spending less per unit of output. I think it is a sign of competition in a market where it is dominated by a few firms (bt 23%, ntl 20%, telewest 14%).

    You suggest that companies buying up each other is the only method of growth because broadband uptake has slowed down. Broadband is highly price elastic because there simply is no alternative and this is why we pay high prices in the UK. We have a few companies controlling a large market share and they are exploiting the fact, there are a few companies that households are willing to place their trust in. This in combination with the absurd 12 month contracts some firms employ are the reasons for high prices.

    The broadband market is inflexible, and by combining it with other sevices such as tv, it compounds the problem. It creates monopolies that will use their power to raise prices to rates that they can get away with.

    I would rather see, tv costing x, internet y, and telephone z. The cheapest and most allocatively efficient possible rather than cheaper prices only offered when combined with products. The comparison with france and south korea are astounding where competition forces companies to give amazing offers. I would much rather have that situation instead of whats happening in the UK.

    In a market where there are large fixed costs and where marginal costs are minimal, it always tends towards a monopoly because a firm that can employ the highest level of productive efficiency through increasing output will always have the cheapest product. The telecommunications industry has changed and is still changing. Fixed costs are decreasing, and the internet makes it much easier and cheaper to reach an audience that use the internet. The trend should not be for firms to be charging premium prices for a "quality" service but a competitive price for the market. After all all the products in a market are the same.

    Carphone Warehouse have started something that will be much more prevalent as technology improves and more firms get in on the act (mobile phone companies). Where there is abnormal profit, there will always be firms undercutting you (doesnt nake them worse).

    Companies will get "smashed" in a competitive environment. I dont particularly need an isp that has to last for more than 6 months. I would save money in the long run instead of paying a premium for having the privilege of having the name BT at the top of my bill.
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    (Original post by ghost101)
    What does he do, get a new harddrive every 2 months?
    No, he backs up onto DVD's, but he doesn't do it every month, usually in the holidays.
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    (Original post by rahmed)
    No, he backs up onto DVD's, but he doesn't do it every month, usually in the holidays.
    k, still find it astonishing though.

    I could imagine going into his room with huge piles of DVDs everywhere :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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