SHOCK NEWS: 250k people to arrive in UK by 2019 Watch

Miss G
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Fires)
Britons in Romania are there because they buy holiday homes to do up, creating local employment and services for Romanian workers.

Romanians in Britain are here to obtain benefits and use the NHS. As with most of the poorest parts of Eastern Europe, there are very high rates of disease and chronic illness in Romania compared to the UK. So let's treat all your sick too, at our expense, naturally.

I'm sorry that Stalin and the Nazis butt-****ed your country rendering it a basket case (although your pre-war local fascists and persecution of your Jews aren't exactly laudable) but the sad reality is that it's now a straight choice between acting as a dumping ground for all of the worst scum in your country, or having services for our own people.
I'm Bulgarian. I was also not reffering to Bulgaria or Romania when I said there are a lot of British people where I live. I live in Dubai. The British people who live here are here for the jobs. Not for the holiday homes.

Also, refrain from calling people 'scum' just because they're working class. And stop generalizing by claiming that these people are here to take your 'benefits' or your 'jobs'. If that is indeed the case, and your government is that dysfunctional that it lets people who don't work come in and take your benefits, then the problem lies elsewhere, no? If it's simply a matter of people immigrating for better opportunities, and to provide a better life for their families, then I'm sorry I can't take your side.

I do agree, however, that the UK should take care of its own people and ensure they have benefits before other people. A country should always take care of its own people first. If, however, foreigners want to go and work hard to earn something their families can survive on, I can't judge them.


EDIT: Also, Bulgaria was never fascist. It was not butt ****ed by the Nazis, as it fought on the Nazis side. It was communist. Anti-semitism could have occured, like it did in most of Europe. Then again, my country was never responsible for nearly starving another country to death just because its population was Catholic.
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Fires
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#42
(Original post by Miss G)
I'm Bulgarian. I was also not reffering to Bulgaria or Romania when I said there are a lot of British people where I live. I live in Dubai. The British people who live here are here for the jobs. Not for the holiday homes.

Also, refrain from calling people 'scum' just because they're working class. And stop generalizing by claiming that these people are here to take your 'benefits' or your 'jobs'. If that is indeed the case, and your government is that dysfunctional that it lets people who don't work come in and take your benefits, then the problem lies elsewhere, no? If it's simply a matter of people immigrating for better opportunities, and to provide a better life for their families, then I'm sorry I can't take your side.

I do agree, however, that the UK should take care of its own people and ensure they have benefits before other people. A country should always take care of its own people first. If, however, foreigners want to go and work hard to earn something their families can survive on, I can't judge them.
I am definitely not referring to the "working class" as scum - I am referring to the easily-observed tendancy of poor countries around the world to dump their worst people on to the UK - criminals, drug dealers, child traffickers - you name them, we've got them.

Bulgaria is even poorer than Romania (quite an achievement!) and will generate a tidal wave of hopeless cases descending on our welfare system.

The UK government is indeed profoundly dysfunctional, hence the need for the people themselves in this country to say no to this new wave of immigration. Simply put, we've had enough.
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Fires
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(Original post by sammjj)
Again, wouldn't believe any figures you read on the Daily Mail.
No, they are under-estimates.
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tsnake23
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#44
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(Original post by Miss G)
I believe you have to give if you want to receive. Where I live, there is a large community of British people. None of the locals are complaining or signing petitions demanding that they leave their country. :rolleyes:
Completely irrelevant, you clearly have no understanding of the situation.

In your country (Dubai) the British are there on work permits and enter the country as skilled workers - you have to have a job before entering the country and take a skilled job. Bulgarians and Romanians can already come to Britain on similar work permits just as the British can go to Dubai.

The opening of borders in the EU for Romanians and Bulgarians is completely different. This will allow any Bulgarian or Romanian to come to the UK, job or not. If they do get a job they do not have to get a skilled one. This will flood the already oversupplied unskilled job market and will simply lead to more unemployment and unskilled job wages being driven down further.
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callum9999
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(Original post by natureartpeace)
Yeah exactly my point above. Perhaps this is because they themselves are being undercut by new immigrants and the story goes on. Meanwhile the country digs itself deeper and deeper into a hole, becomes more and more overcrowded, all in the pursuit of short term financial gain.
I'd say it's far more likely that it's because they are looked down upon by the majority of the country so become disillusioned.

Go to any Eastern European community in the UK and you will see the ones who work in "normal" jobs with "normal" Brits who respect them are happier, learn the language better and therefore integrate better and are generally far more productive. The ones who are shunned because they are foreign however will stick together in their national groups, not bother improving their English etc. and generally cause a nuisance.

Then because these are the visible ones, the likes of the Daily Mail spread stories about them, tarring everyone of that nationality and creating a vicious cycle.

This is partially why I love the EU so much and would like it to become a federal state ala the US some day. There is far too much hatred and inequality in this country. Laughably people go on about inequality all the time - but only about those who are better off than them. The people who are poorer than them can seemingly just get stuffed...
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Miss G
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#46
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(Original post by Fires)
I didn't realise you are in Dubai, but I don't care much for or about Gulfies either, if that's any help in understanding where I'm coming from. If you all end up back in the desert sniffing camel's arses like you used to before we discovered oil for you, it won't be a sad moment.

Back to the topic at hand - I am definitely not referring to the "working class" as scum - I am referring to the easily-observed tendancy of poor countries around the world to dump their worst people on to the UK - criminals, drug dealers, child traffickers - you name them, we've got them.

Bulgaria is even poorer than Romania (quite an achievement!) and will generate a tidal wave of hopeless cases descending on our welfare system.

The UK government is indeed profoundly dysfunctional, hence the need for the people themselves in this country to say no to this new wave of immigration. Simply put, we've had enough.
Right, your first paragraph. I'm not from Dubai so you didn't discover oil for me. Also, a very stupid comment. Many British people live and prosper here. If this place wasn't around, they'd just be stuck in the UK which wouldn't be good for anyone. Perhaps you ought to think before you type.

Again with your welfare system! What if they're just there to work?

And to think I ever considered going to university here...


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Miss G
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#47
(Original post by Miss G)
Right, your first paragraph. I'm not from Dubai so you didn't discover oil for me. Also, a very stupid comment. Many British people live and prosper here. If this place wasn't around, they'd just be stuck in the UK which wouldn't be good for anyone. Perhaps you ought to think before you type.

Again with your welfare system! What if they're just there to work?

And to think I ever considered going to university here...

Edit: there are 7.5 mn Bulgarians at most. How will that wave you speak of happen?


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Miss G
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(Original post by tsnake23)
Completely irrelevant, you clearly have no understanding of the situation.

In your country (Dubai) the British are there on work permits and enter the country as skilled workers - you have to have a job before entering the country and take a skilled job. Bulgarians and Romanians can already come to Britain on similar work permits just as the British can go to Dubai.

The opening of borders in the EU for Romanians and Bulgarians is completely different. This will allow any Bulgarian or Romanian to come to the UK, job or not. If they do get a job they do not have to get a skilled one. This will flood the already oversupplied unskilled job market and will simply lead to more unemployment and unskilled job wages being driven down further.
I'm Bulgarian, I just live in Dubai, so I'm pretty sure I have some understanding of the situation. Also, Dubai is a city not a country.

Anyway, people have come to your country as 'students' in your bogus schools, they have illegally immigrated on so many occasions, yet that does not concern you, but someone legally entering your country for a better life and in some cases, for seeking equality and running from a country which is extremely xenophobic, homophobic, you name it... That's somehow wrong? I'm sorry people who don't want to work but simply want to live off other peoples hard earned money will weasel through. They'll always find a way, legally or illegally. However, so many of those entering legally simply want a chance at a better life for them and their families and for whatever reason, they think the UK will somehow do it for them. They want to work. Not live off your welfare system.


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Fires
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(Original post by Miss G)
I'm Bulgarian, I just live in Dubai, so I'm pretty sure I have some understanding of the situation. Also, Dubai is a city not a country.

Anyway, people have come to your country as 'students' in your bogus schools, they have illegally immigrated on so many occasions, yet that does not concern you, but someone legally entering your country for a better life and in some cases, for seeking equality and running from a country which is extremely xenophobic, homophobic, you name it... That's somehow wrong? I'm sorry people who don't want to work but simply want to live off other peoples hard earned money will weasel through. They'll always find a way, legally or illegally. However, so many of those entering legally simply want a chance at a better life for them and their families and for whatever reason, they think the UK will somehow do it for them. They want to work. Not live off your welfare system.


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Lol, it's easy to sit back in Dubai and pontificate about how we should be running Britain, isn't it. You have absolutely no idea about the subjects you are sounding off on.

Personally I'm relieved you never made it to uni here, we already have quite enough simple-minded medieval hangovers of the Ottoman empire in our midst.
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Miss G
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(Original post by Fires)
Lol, it's easy to sit back in Dubai and pontificate about how we should be running Britain, isn't it. You have absolutely no idea about the subjects you are sounding off on.

Personally I'm relieved you never made it to uni here, we already have quite enough simple-minded medieval hangovers of the Ottoman empire in our midst.
Well, to be fair, neither do you. But that should have been obvious since it seems that you're an avid fan of the Daily Mail, a newspaper which is more fiction than fact, as it would seem.

Personally, I'm not going to take offense from someone as narrow minded and simple as you. Clearly, you have never been out of your tiny village or experienced the world, and probably never even went to university in the first place. I hope, anyway. I would think that your education system would not create such extremists. The extreme right or the extreme left in politics has always been supported by those who lack any knowledge of politics, economics or the way the world works. Judging by your racist remarks throughout the thread about anyone who isn't British, you're exactly that. You talk too much and know too little.


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tsnake23
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#51
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(Original post by Miss G)
I'm Bulgarian, I just live in Dubai, so I'm pretty sure I have some understanding of the situation
UAE or Dubai emirate is not planning to open its borders to Bulgarians or Romanians (outside of employing people from these countries via work permits).

You clearly don't have an understanding of the situation because you keep failing to distinguish the difference between allowing open immigration (completely opening borders between 2 countries) and allowing restricted work permit based immigration like you have currently in Dubai and UK. Do you know the difference yet?

(Original post by Miss G)
Anyway, people have come to your country as 'students' in your bogus schools, they have illegally immigrated on so many occasions, yet that does not concern you,
Wait, stop! Why is that not concerning? Of course it is concerning to people here. The government have recently cracked down on this as well so its much more difficult to do it now.

(Original post by Miss G)
I'm sorry people who don't want to work but simply want to live off other peoples hard earned money will weasel through. They'll always find a way, legally or illegally
It really isn't easy to get into the UK illegally, if you do then it will be a struggle because you won't be able to get a legal job as you won't have the required documentation that employers check for. The border police in this country do a reasonable job and it will only be a matter of time before you are found and sent back.

(Original post by Miss G)
However, so many of those entering legally simply want a chance at a better life for them and their families and for whatever reason, they think the UK will somehow do it for them. They want to work. Not live off your welfare system.
Again: THEY ALREADY CAN. If they are able to get a skilled job in the UK then they can come to the UK. Almost all British people will welcome them as they are filling a gap in the labour market and will be making a valuable contribution to society. However the opening of the borders for anyone in Bulgaria/Romania to come over whether they have/want a job or not will cause the oversupplied job market to become even more so, increasing unemployment and driving down the average unskilled job wage.
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Miss G
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(Original post by tsnake23)
UAE or Dubai emirate is not planning to open its borders to Bulgarians or Romanians (outside of employing people from these countries via work permits).

You clearly don't have an understanding of the situation because you keep failing to distinguish the difference between allowing open immigration (completely opening borders between 2 countries) and allowing restricted work permit based immigration like you have currently in Dubai and UK. Do you know the difference yet?



Wait, stop! Why is that not concerning? Of course it is concerning to people here. The government have recently cracked down on this as well so its much more difficult to do it now.



T wIt really isn't easy to get into the UK illegally, if you do then it will be a struggle because you won't be able to get a legal job as you won't have the required documentation that employers check for. The border police in this country do a reasonable job and it will only be a matter of time before you are found and sent back.



Again: THEY ALREADY CAN. If they are able to get a skilled job in the UK then they can come to the UK. Almost all British people will welcome them as they are filling a gap in the labour market and will be making a valuable contribution to society. However the opening of the borders for anyone in Bulgaria/Romania to come over whether they have/want a job or not will cause the oversupplied job market to become even more so, increasing unemployment and driving down the average unskilled job wage.
Right, but seeing as all other EU members are allowed to do it, wouldn't it be slightly unfair if bulgaria and Romania aren't? Personally, I would feel that just because I come from a poorer country, I will be judged and discriminated against, and I dont see that as fair. Also, this point I'm unclear on, but how can a foreigner claim benefits unless they have previously worked for the country or are currently working for the country? Surely that's not possible!




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Skip_Snip
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So are there more than 250k jobs out there? Enough to give all these immigrants AND British nationals a chance to become employed? Somehow I doubt it ...
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Tier
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If you fear that an unskilled, uneducated and illiterate worker is going to take you and your people's jobs, what does that say about you?

Fact is, if you don't like people coming over here and claiming benefits, then vote Tory and get all your benefits cut as well.
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natureartpeace
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(Original post by Tier)
If you fear that an unskilled, uneducated and illiterate worker is going to take you and your people's jobs, what does that say about you?

Fact is, if you don't like people coming over here and claiming benefits, then vote Tory and get all your benefits cut as well.
To clarify the situation, and hopefully educate you a little and help with your ignorance.

Many unskilled foreign workers are 'employed' here under circumstances which require some form of law breaking or unethical activity on the part of the employer. For example, the illiterate, uneducated, unskilled and financially poor immigrant worker you describe is a capitalist's dream. They can dangle the carrot (visa) in front of them and force them to do whatever they want. Most agree based on the reward and cannot stand up for themselves for various reasons, notably no access to legal aid, no money for an independent lawyer and no support from the locals. The capitalist knows he/ she can get away with almost anything and all they have do is sign their visa form at the end, rinse and repeat.

Most capitalists vote Tory.
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GreenOut
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**** the daily mail
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stuart_aitken
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Hi all. Look around you. You'll find the whole country speaks English, most neighbourhoods are fine, there are jobs to be had, the population isn't increasing exponentially, and generally nothing is really that bad.

That's how I feel anyway.

Why?

I don't read newspapers. My opinions are formed by my reality. For the vast majority of all you highly argumentative keyboard warriors, please take a look around you and consider real life. The news is a very powerful Construct.

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Fires
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From the news just now. They really are like sewer rats. What did we, as a country do, to deserve having people like this living amongst us?

-------------
A 12-year-old girl who was repeatedly raped by a group of men was also made to have a back-room abortion after falling pregnant, a court has heard.

She is one of six alleged victims of nine men accused of grooming children and exploiting them for sex in Oxford.

She was also "branded" with the initial of a man who claimed to "own her".

The men deny 51 charges including rape, arranging child prostitution and trafficking relating to girls aged between 11 and 15 from 2004 to 2012.

Jurors at the Old Bailey heard the victim, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, was "sold" to Mohammed Karrar when she had just turned 11 to "cure her bad attitude".

Noel Lucas QC, prosecuting, said he then groomed her for sexual activity, giving her alcohol and drugs.

Hair-pin branding
Both he and his brother, Bassam Karrar, repeatedly raped the girl and arranged for her to be raped by other men in a way she described as "torture", the court heard.

Mr Lucas said that on one occasion Mohammed Karrar heated a hair pin with a lighter and branded the girl with the letter M on her buttock to show she belonged to him.

When she became pregnant, aged 12, he arranged for her to have an illegal abortion in a back-room in Reading.

Mr Lucas told jurors: "This brief summary of the very extensive and persistent abuse [she] suffered at the hands of Mohammed Karrar illustrates his view of her as something to be used and abused at will.

"He regarded her as his property. He showed her no regard.

"He felt he was entitled to have sex with her when he wanted and in whatever manner he wanted.

"If she had the courage to resist, he beat her. He branded her to make her his property and to ensure others knew it.
"
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tsnake23
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(Original post by Tier)
If you fear that an unskilled, uneducated and illiterate worker is going to take you and your people's jobs, what does that say about you?

Fact is, if you don't like people coming over here and claiming benefits, then vote Tory and get all your benefits cut as well.
A large number of unskilled workers coming to this country will add to the oversupply of unskilled workers we currently have in this country. It will only help to further drive down wages for the less well off and increase unemployment. I would consider myself a skilled worker with a degree level job but as someone who actually cares about the state of the economy I can't see how flooding the unskilled labour market in the current economic climate would be a good idea.

That is some retarded logic you've stated in the second paragraph. Surely the people that would be more interested in stopping open borders is the low skilled British workers that will find it harder to get a job? Why would they be for a cut in benefits?
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Tier
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(Original post by tsnake23)
A large number of unskilled workers coming to this country will add to the oversupply of unskilled workers we currently have in this country. It will only help to further drive down wages for the less well off and increase unemployment. I would consider myself a skilled worker with a degree level job but as someone who actually cares about the state of the economy I can't see how flooding the unskilled labour market in the current economic climate would be a good idea.

That is some retarded logic you've stated in the second paragraph. Surely the people that would be more interested in stopping open borders is the low skilled British workers that will find it harder to get a job? Why would they be for a cut in benefits?
The second part was more a jab at people who complain about immigrants gaining benefits, yet crave them themselves. Those who take the position that by birthright they are entitled to welfare support while those who emigrate are not because they are outsiders. The way I see it, benefits should be distributed based on merit of work ethic rather than social classifications.

I will admit I am rather ignorant on issues of immigration, only because my gut reaction to those who are anti-immigration is a rather sour one. The type who are like 'all these bloody Somalians coming over here with their 8 kids, rolling in benefits and living off my taxes!'. They polarize me.

The way I see it though, if you're an unskilled worker, make the effort to benefit yourself and become skilled. I find it hard to believe that in this day and age people have no way of finding suitable employment. If it means going back to school, then go back to school. If it means autodidactly learning a craft, then that's it. Once again, I am woefully ignorant to the real world being only a student. It may just be the way I was raised though, always being told that hard work and resilience always comes through.
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