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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    They do not have the ability to morally reason - we do. It would be wrong for those animals to kill others if they were aware of the moral consequences and they were able to survive without taking them.
    Why?

    Boxing is acceptable because both participants can consent. That's why it's wrong to watch one person attack another for entertainment without their one party's knowledge, but it is OK to watch a boxing match.
    Ill concede that much.
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    (Original post by miser)
    Alright, I don't think I can debate this anymore. We have no framework for it - you're evidently some kind of moral nihilist that doesn't care about causing suffering, or if you do it's only for selfish reasons like the preservation of your own kind.

    We fundamentally disagree, and I don't fancy another debate about attempting to prove the existence of morality.
    I most certainly am not a Moral Nihilist, can't stand the folks.

    I have stated numerous times that I do care about causing suffering and have even gave examples to t his extent.

    But if you don't want to debate any further, that's fine by me.

    Blessings upon you.
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    (Original post by JinxedOut)
    If you read what I said properly, I didn't say we ARE a society that does. I said that a society which values life is one that puts values before personal satisfaction.

    Clearly society as a construct differs from country to country, depending on the system of laws in place and their enforcement, as well as cultural influences, demographic distributions, environmental surroundings (space available), resources, politics etc etc.

    But, I think that is what society should aim towards though, valuing life before personal satisfaction. I think we should be constantly aiming to improve human and animal rights.

    (Humans are animals btw.)
    Sorry for the late reply my friend!
    I would agree on the improvement of human rights, but I just don't see a good argument for why Animals need them.
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    I have no problem with hunting because you need the meat or hunting to cull populations but shooting, say, an elephant just to feel like a big man is something I despise.
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    (Original post by arkhamz)
    I have no problem with hunting because you need the meat or hunting to cull populations but shooting, say, an elephant just to feel like a big man is something I despise.
    Yea, I don't think I would be comfortable shooting an Elephant or another species in simmiler risk of depopulation.
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    I don't buy the cruelty argument. Being shot (not mauled by another animal, mind) is probably the best thing that could happen to a wild animal. 99% of them will be eaten alive, starved or die of cold, and the rest are probably roadkill.
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    (Original post by tjf8)
    I don't buy the cruelty argument. Being shot (not mauled by another animal, mind) is probably the best thing that could happen to a wild animal. 99% of them will be eaten alive, starved or die of cold, and the rest are probably roadkill.
    The argument is that we as humans are "Smarter" therefore we should be able to given our greater intellect be of a standard where we cause zero suffering.

    And that animals are just stupid animals, limited to there biological abilities and thus they just do the best with what they can.

    It's a silly argument either-way.
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    I have no problem with it. To be honest, many animals in the wild have a much higher quality of life than those in factory farms. People will eat their 'ethically' slaughter factory farmed chicken and act like they have some moral superiority over someone who hunts. So aquiring your food through hunting is a much superior and ethical food source compared to that of the meat sold in most supermarkets.

    I think people obsess to much over how an animal is killed :dontknow: If the animal has lived in a cramped cage its whole life, slaughtering it in the least painful way doesn't mean ****. Sure the animal that is shot may suffer a lot at the end of its life. But really, that animal has most likely lived a much superior life to most animals which are farmed and therefore in my opinion is more ethical :yep:
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    The argument is that we as humans are "Smarter" therefore we should be able to given our greater intellect be of a standard where we cause zero suffering.

    And that animals are just stupid animals, limited to there biological abilities and thus they just do the best with what they can.

    It's a silly argument either-way.
    How does the intellectual superiority of humans over animals pertain to my point that being shot is possibly the most humane way an animal can go? Not sure I understand your point
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    As the title states, so is the question!

    I myself have been a sport hunter for a long time, I started out hunting foul and small game with my Dad when I was younger, but as I grew older I moved on to progressively larger game and started Bow Hunting instead. I would go over to my Brother in Laws in the States and hunt Big Game such as Deer, Elk, Proghorn, Moose Bear etc(tried Mountain Lion, but the things are tricky) , and even to Africa to hunt Oryx.


    All I can is that I absolutely love it, as many other hunters will know it's the thrill of the stalk and the satisfaction of the kill that makes it worth while.

    I hear a lot of winging and crying from those in the anti-hunting brigade, and I usually do my best to keep them happy, I have a habit of whenever able utilizing all the meat and the pelts(as most Hunters do really..why waste good meat and pelts you can sell?)

    Sadly though over the past few years due to University Commitments, getting married, putting money away for essentially starting up a decent life and family, I haven't had the chance to get away but ive been thinking of sometime in the near future getting my Bow out of it's case, get my aim back in order and maybe getting back into the hobby, which made me think?

    What does TSR think of Hunting, Thrilling Blood Sport, or Barbaric Animal Cruelty?

    I obviously don't have a problem with it, it's a fantastic and rewarding pastime.

    Myself Below

    Hunting is great, I would do it too if I could afford it. Mainly the ones where hunters are called in to control or eliminate the introduced species destroying the ecosystem. Like wild boars in the States and stuff.

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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    As the title states, so is the question!

    I myself have been a sport hunter for a long time, I started out hunting foul and small game with my Dad when I was younger, but as I grew older I moved on to progressively larger game and started Bow Hunting instead. I would go over to my Brother in Laws in the States and hunt Big Game such as Deer, Elk, Proghorn, Moose Bear etc(tried Mountain Lion, but the things are tricky) , and even to Africa to hunt Oryx.


    All I can is that I absolutely love it, as many other hunters will know it's the thrill of the stalk and the satisfaction of the kill that makes it worth while.

    I hear a lot of winging and crying from those in the anti-hunting brigade, and I usually do my best to keep them happy, I have a habit of whenever able utilizing all the meat and the pelts(as most Hunters do really..why waste good meat and pelts you can sell?)

    Sadly though over the past few years due to University Commitments, getting married, putting money away for essentially starting up a decent life and family, I haven't had the chance to get away but ive been thinking of sometime in the near future getting my Bow out of it's case, get my aim back in order and maybe getting back into the hobby, which made me think?

    What does TSR think of Hunting, Thrilling Blood Sport, or Barbaric Animal Cruelty?

    I obviously don't have a problem with it, it's a fantastic and rewarding pastime.

    Myself Below

    so how would you become a hunter? like were would you start??
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    (Original post by tjf8)
    How does the intellectual superiority of humans over animals pertain to my point that being shot is possibly the most humane way an animal can go? Not sure I understand your point
    I don't understand it either...it's not my point.

    Hence why I enjoy shooting and killing animals.
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    (Original post by EduWiz)
    so how would you become a hunter? like were would you start??
    Here is what I would advise

    1st) Go onto Google and look up some UK Hunting Sites, get a feel for what goes on in the sport in the country. Be aware though that in the UK your not going to be hunting anything big.

    2)If you think you would like it, get in contact with a local hunting group which there should certainly be in your area, if not go http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/ there and you can find someone in your local area.

    3)Have a day out or something see if you enjoy it!

    4)Choose your weapon of choice, your probably going to end up Rifle Hunting, as the only other option really is Bow Hunting or Trapping, and to Bow Hunt in any serious manner you usually end having to go abroad(at least I do) join a Rifle Club or somesuch, work on your aim.

    5)Go Hunting.

    Simplez
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    (Original post by Reuben F)
    Hunting is great, I would do it too if I could afford it. Mainly the ones where hunters are called in to control or eliminate the introduced species destroying the ecosystem. Like wild boars in the States and stuff.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I agree on both counts, it can be an expensive hobby, especially if you wan't to go abroad to do big game hunting (I have tried suggesting moving to the states numerous times...wife won't have it).
    Ive found there's nothing quite like the states in winter though, something really primal about stalking the snow for a kill.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    As the title states, so is the question!

    I myself have been a sport hunter for a long time, I started out hunting foul and small game with my Dad when I was younger, but as I grew older I moved on to progressively larger game and started Bow Hunting instead. I would go over to my Brother in Laws in the States and hunt Big Game such as Deer, Elk, Proghorn, Moose Bear etc(tried Mountain Lion, but the things are tricky) , and even to Africa to hunt Oryx.


    All I can is that I absolutely love it, as many other hunters will know it's the thrill of the stalk and the satisfaction of the kill that makes it worth while.

    I hear a lot of winging and crying from those in the anti-hunting brigade, and I usually do my best to keep them happy, I have a habit of whenever able utilizing all the meat and the pelts(as most Hunters do really..why waste good meat and pelts you can sell?)

    Sadly though over the past few years due to University Commitments, getting married, putting money away for essentially starting up a decent life and family, I haven't had the chance to get away but ive been thinking of sometime in the near future getting my Bow out of it's case, get my aim back in order and maybe getting back into the hobby, which made me think?

    What does TSR think of Hunting, Thrilling Blood Sport, or Barbaric Animal Cruelty?

    I obviously don't have a problem with it, it's a fantastic and rewarding pastime.

    Myself Below

    I think it's barbaric and I don't understand how anyone could consider ruthlessly killing living creatures a 'fantastic and rewarding pastime'.

    These animals are terrified and most likely in pain when they die, and furthermore these are unnecessary deaths; you don't NEED anything from them (not that I think needing something from them necessarily justifies killing them anyway).

    How you, and any other hunters out there, can kill living creatures for your own enjoyment and attempt to defend your position is beyond my realm of comprehension. I find it truly shocking that in the Western world in the 21st century such pursuits continue to exist.
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    (Original post by la95)
    I think it's barbaric and I don't understand how anyone could consider ruthlessly killing living creatures a 'fantastic and rewarding pastime'.

    These animals are terrified and most likely in pain when they die, and furthermore these are unnecessary deaths; you don't NEED anything from them (not that I think needing something from them necessarily justifies killing them anyway).

    How you, and any other hunters out there, can kill living creatures for your own enjoyment and attempt to defend your position is beyond my realm of comprehension. I find it truly shocking that in the Western world in the 21st century such pursuits continue to exist.
    I am noticing more and more, it's women who are the most offended by it, while most men just shrug and crack on.

    I take it you are a Vegetarian anyway?
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    I'm strongly against it. As a way of getting meat I find hunting to be preferable to intensive farming but I often find this excuse to be a weak justification of hunting. Many hunters who use this argument in support of hunting do not have providing food as their primary motivation but hunt mainly because of the fun. The effects of them hunting are fairly balanced because they use the meat but I don't think gaining pleasure from harming another animal is a desire which should be morally accepted. I think it wrong to put the enjoyment you gain from hunting over the life of that animal even if to you it out ways the empathy you have for the creature.
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    (Original post by la95)
    I think it's barbaric and I don't understand how anyone could consider ruthlessly killing living creatures a 'fantastic and rewarding pastime'.

    These animals are terrified and most likely in pain when they die, and furthermore these are unnecessary deaths; you don't NEED anything from them (not that I think needing something from them necessarily justifies killing them anyway).

    How you, and any other hunters out there, can kill living creatures for your own enjoyment and attempt to defend your position is beyond my realm of comprehension. I find it truly shocking that in the Western world in the 21st century such pursuits continue to exist.
    Well said.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I don't understand it either...it's not my point.

    Hence why I enjoy shooting and killing animals.
    Oh right, I thought you were arguing against me!
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    (Original post by la95)
    I think it's barbaric and I don't understand how anyone could consider ruthlessly killing living creatures a 'fantastic and rewarding pastime'.

    These animals are terrified and most likely in pain when they die, and furthermore these are unnecessary deaths; you don't NEED anything from them (not that I think needing something from them necessarily justifies killing them anyway).

    How you, and any other hunters out there, can kill living creatures for your own enjoyment and attempt to defend your position is beyond my realm of comprehension. I find it truly shocking that in the Western world in the 21st century such pursuits continue to exist.
    Do you own any leather clothing or accessories?
 
 
 
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