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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    And on what grounds do you come to that conclusion? Because the grounds you have stated are insufficient.
    The legislation in place in Northern Ireland at the moment is that when a majority vote in favor of a United Ireland, there will be a United Ireland. The percentage of Protestants to Catholics currently stands at 52-48. When the vote takes Northern Ireland into the South, there will be an eruption. Currently, Northern Ireland has a very strong under current of ill-feeling towards the other religious denomination i.e Protestants towards Catholics and vice versa (not everyone of course, that would be very sweeping). The underbelly of unrest amonst these people will burst when the vote goes, and this will bring about another episode of the troubles.
    As I mentioned previously, you only have to look at the two weeks of riots when the bill was passed to stop flying the flag all year. Now, take this ill-feeling, coupled with more people feeling like this, and multiply it by a reasonably large number to establish how people will feel when you take their country and their ties to the United kingdom, ties generations of their families have fought to maintain, away from them.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    The legislation in place in Northern Ireland at the moment is that when a majority vote in favor of a United Ireland, there will be a United Ireland. The percentage of Protestants to Catholics currently stands at 52-48. When the vote takes Northern Ireland into the South, there will be an eruption. Currently, Northern Ireland has a very strong under current of ill-feeling towards the other religious denomination i.e Protestants towards Catholics and vice versa (not everyone of course, that would be very sweeping). The underbelly of unrest amonst these people will burst when the vote goes, and this will bring about another episode of the troubles.
    As I mentioned previously, you only have to look at the two weeks of riots when the bill was passed to stop flying the flag all year. Now, take this ill-feeling, coupled with more people feeling like this, and multiply it by a reasonably large number to establish how people will feel when you take their country and their ties to the United kingdom, ties generations of their families have fought to maintain, away from them.
    Take this ill feeling and all you really have is a few anecdotes, a number of broad generalisations and far too many assumptions for what you say to be meaningful.
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    that is because it has a low chance of starting up again.
    But, the sad reality is, there is a very strong possibility of it starting all over again, and the majority of people in NI can foresee it.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    Take this ill feeling and all you really have is a few anecdotes, a number of broad generalisations and far too many assumptions for what you say to be meaningful.
    Would you care to explain to me why I may be wrong?
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    I'm sorry but I live in Northern Ireland and this talk about the "New Troubles" and a soon to be "Unified Ireland" that was brought up is highly, highly unlikely.

    Yes there are bomb scares over here occasionally but it doesn't normally interfere with everyday life. It isn't even comparable to what used to be like. Even the (small) riots recently over the Flag Protests have been seriously overplayed by the media, I drove through one and got out in one piece. It has been made out as if the whole of Belfast is in chaos whereas in reality it's generally contained to a single street. There is are two small groups of individuals who always have and always will make trouble for the local assembly, the hard-line republicans and hard-line loyalists.

    The vast majority of Northern Ireland wants a Union with Britain whilst maintaining valuable connections with the South, it isn't economically viable to be part of the Republic. 52% of Catholics polled as wanting to maintain the union and only 33% wanted a United Ireland. Ultimately leaving a total of 16% who want a United Ireland.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    The legislation in place in Northern Ireland at the moment is that when a majority vote in favor of a United Ireland, there will be a United Ireland. The percentage of Protestants to Catholics currently stands at 52-48. When the vote takes Northern Ireland into the South, there will be an eruption. Currently, Northern Ireland has a very strong under current of ill-feeling towards the other religious denomination i.e Protestants towards Catholics and vice versa (not everyone of course, that would be very sweeping). The underbelly of unrest amonst these people will burst when the vote goes, and this will bring about another episode of the troubles.
    As I mentioned previously, you only have to look at the two weeks of riots when the bill was passed to stop flying the flag all year. Now, take this ill-feeling, coupled with more people feeling like this, and multiply it by a reasonably large number to establish how people will feel when you take their country and their ties to the United kingdom, ties generations of their families have fought to maintain, away from them.
    all hypothetical though.

    52-48 means nothing. Religion is beginning to dwindle in NI and its role in politics is becoming less and less important. Today, the fact that there are many catholics joining the British army and the PSNI proves that not all catholics a nationalists. They may see themselves as Irish, but don't care for nationalism.

    The scene in NI will be more like the scene that was across the whole country before it the home rule crisis when you could be both Irish and British. The likes of Tom Crean for example would not have cared for nationalism, would you say he wasn't Irish though?
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    (Original post by malteser87)
    Yeah I've noticed, and in the English school I taught in the students were very uneducated about Ireland and had loads of misconceptions.


    Many years ago the Berlin Wall came down. About a third of my class had no idea what it was.

    an awful lot of people are just generally unaware of a lot of things going on around them.
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    Easter is a very special time for us Irish, as it is the Anniversary of the Easter Rising in Dublin, when we finally had enough of English Rule. The relationship between Ireland and the UK has never been better, and whilst the IRA did some terrible things since 1969, lets not beat about the bush. The English did no good in Ireland, they brought Wars, Famines, Destruction, and partition of our country. Even though I have lived in the UK for a long time and have lots of English friends, I will always wear my Easter Lily when I think of our Fenian dead, who fought and died, against English Brutality.
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    (Original post by 01Chris02)
    I'm sorry but I live in Northern Ireland and this talk about the "New Troubles" and a soon to be "Unified Ireland" that was brought up is highly, highly unlikely.

    Yes there are bomb scares over here occasionally but it doesn't normally interfere with everyday life. It isn't even comparable to what used to be like. Even the (small) riots recently over the Flag Protests have been seriously overplayed by the media, I drove through one and got out in one piece. It has been made out as if the whole of Belfast is in chaos whereas in reality it's generally contained to a single street. There is are two small groups of individuals who always have and always will make trouble for the local assembly, the hard-line republicans and hard-line loyalists.

    The vast majority of Northern Ireland wants a Union with Britain whilst maintaining valuable connections with the South, it isn't economically viable to be part of the Republic. 52% of Catholics polled as wanting to maintain the union and only 33% wanted a United Ireland. Ultimately leaving a total of 16% who want a United Ireland.
    It has not been my intention to paint Belfast in chaos, and i apologise if that is what I did.
    I sincerely hope you are correct in what you are saying, don't get me wrong. However, there are more than occasional bomb scares. Most of them are not reported to the media in the first place. I know this because my dad is in the PSNI.
    Of Course, it is the minority that are involved in all of these instances. However, it is not unforeseeable to see a United Ireland. Where did you find you polling statistics? I read in the Irish Independent over a year ago now that 41% of the population was in favor of a united Ireland. Of course, the real figure may be closer to yours, and I hope it is, but I can honestly see a United Ireland within 20 years, and the troubles coming with it.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Easter is a very special time for us Irish, as it is the Anniversary of the Easter Rising in Dublin, when we finally had enough of English Rule. The relationship between Ireland and the UK has never been better, and whilst the IRA did some terrible things since 1969, lets not beat about the bush. The English did no good in Ireland, they brought Wars, Famines, Destruction, and partition of our country. Even though I have lived in the UK for a long time and have lots of English friends, I will always wear my Easter Lily when I think of our Fenian dead, who fought and died, against English Brutality.
    I think we should keep away from the nitty gritty parts of this topic, it's controversial and will most likely result in arguments.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    Would you care to explain to me why I may be wrong?
    Because in a world of infinite possibilities you have listed just one and made a poor justification for it.
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    (Original post by 01Chris02)
    I think we should keep away from the nitty gritty parts of this topic, it's controversial and will most likely result in arguments.
    You are correct, hence, even though I'm a Republican myself, it does not mean I supported what they did in The Troubles, it was wrong, just like what happened when the English left in 1922, and Ireland descended into Civil War and anarchy. We have a dark history unfortunately.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Many years ago the Berlin Wall came down. About a third of my class had no idea what it was.

    an awful lot of people are just generally unaware of a lot of things going on around them.
    I tried to use the news as an interesting and informative thing to do during form time with my class but it was met with boredom and a "don't care" attitude from them. It's a shame how ignorant kids are these days
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    all hypothetical though.

    52-48 means nothing. Religion is beginning to dwindle in NI and its role in politics is becoming less and less important. Today, the fact that there are many catholics joining the British army and the PSNI proves that not all catholics a nationalists. They may see themselves as Irish, but don't care for nationalism.

    The scene in NI will be more like the scene that was across the whole country before it the home rule crisis when you could be both Irish and British. The likes of Tom Crean for example would not have cared for nationalism, would you say he wasn't Irish though?
    Yes I suppose you are correct that it is. Religion as an idea may be dwindling, but religion as an identity is not. One of the first questions many ask when they meet someone new in Ireland is if they are Protestant or Catholic. However, who people vote for in Northern Ireland is still first decided by your religion, so it is still very prominent in politics. I do believe you are right in that not all Catholics are Nationalists. In fact most are not. However, I do not know if I have ever met any catholic that says they are Irish AND British.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    Because in a world of infinite possibilities you have listed just one and made a poor justification for it.
    Of course the world is full of many different possibilities. But for someone who has lived in many parts of Ireland and know people in positions in government and people in revolutionary wings, whilst being the son of a Protestant and Catholic I am in a good position to make an educated guess. yes, I know, an educated guess, but in terms of the unpredictably of the Irish question, that's all one can ever have. I suppose, who am I to know what is going to happen, and you may well be right in what you say.
    Also, having been brought up a Protestant and playing Gaelic, a Catholic sport, I have encountered jibes from protestants throughout my life and know that the situation will take many twists and turns before the final conclusion is reached. And in reality one may never be reached. It is a very complicated topic..
    I appreciate your responses, I enjoy a decent debate with someone!
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    It has not been my intention to paint Belfast in chaos, and i apologise if that is what I did.
    I sincerely hope you are correct in what you are saying, don't get me wrong. However, there are more than occasional bomb scares. Most of them are not reported to the media in the first place. I know this because my dad is in the PSNI.
    Of Course, it is the minority that are involved in all of these instances. However, it is not unforeseeable to see a United Ireland. Where did you find you polling statistics? I read in the Irish Independent over a year ago now that 41% of the population was in favor of a united Ireland. Of course, the real figure may be closer to yours, and I hope it is, but I can honestly see a United Ireland within 20 years, and the troubles coming with it.
    Oh no mate there's no need to apologize, that was a broad statement on my part. A lot of English people I have spoken to recently seem to think that we're on the verge of meltdown so I was trying to enlighten any misinformed individuals!

    I grabbed those statistics off the BBC and tried to confirm them with Wikipedia (I found the same statistics buried in there somewhere).

    I don't think the troubles would come about again on anywhere near the scale as what it previously was. There is much less support for violence and more for democratic and diplomatic process, people have become fed up with the violence and that's why (I think) so many people vote neutrally answers on the polls.
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    My flatmate from Belfast says that the city is covered with Union Flags to compensate for them taking it off the city hall. No surrender!
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    (Original post by 01Chris02)
    Oh no mate there's no need to apologize, that was a broad statement on my part. A lot of English people I have spoken to recently seem to think that we're on the verge of meltdown so I was trying to enlighten any misinformed individuals!

    I grabbed those statistics off the BBC and tried to confirm them with Wikipedia (I found the same statistics buried in there somewhere).

    I don't think the troubles would come about again on anywhere near the scale as what it previously was. There is much less support for violence and more for democratic and diplomatic process, people have become fed up with the violence and that's why (I think) so many people vote neutrally answers on the polls.
    Ah fair enough I will have a look at those statistics and try and find the ones I read!

    The only problem with these is that, until it actually happens, we may not know what people would vote. Similar to the Scottish question, in terms of the variation in percentages that people think will vote yes to independence!
    Oh well, whatever happens, it is a long, interesting road ahead!
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Nyah, most of the UK couldn't give two ****s about our wee country. I still get asked by English people if Norn Iron uses the Euro. Does my head in, really. If they're going to claim as part of their country, they could at least get some basic education on the place.
    I forget I mix in quite political circles: being politically engaged usually leads to being engaged more generally with history, international issues and all that. That said, a friend of mine - who is usually quite bright - recently revealed they didn't know Southern Ireland had ever been part of the UK, and assumed that the UK had just essentially annexed Northern Ireland in the relatively recent past.

    Probably the majority of people really don't give much of a **** about what goes on beyond their own everyday experience. Ironically, with the Troubles in the past, you're probably going to matter even less.

    Spare a thought for the poor Cornish, Shetlanders, Manx and all that too. Hardly anyone in this country has a clue about their local distinctiveness either.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    One thing I forgot, why has the Orange Order not been banned as a sectarian organisation? Surely as it doesn't allow Catholics to join, it's discriminating?
    Unless expressly prohibited, discrimination is perfectly legal. No one is suggesting that the Roman Catholic church should let Muslims join, after all. Religious groups are perfectly entitled to have discriminatory entry requirements.

    Anyway, there's no law permitting the banning of organisations for being sectarian, or otherwise bigoted.
 
 
 
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