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Halting immigration "would cost UK £18bn in five years". Watch

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    (Original post by deehee)
    We need an ethnic based immigration policy
    So basically you just want immigration from the Anglosphere (not that i'd be against looser restrictions for them)?
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    (Original post by deehee)
    We need an ethnic based immigration policy
    I don't see what is wrong with an ethic based immigration policy. The "liberals" would be jumping up and down in a fit. I don't really understand why its so contravertial. Its the way all groups think including Jack Straws group in their own country.

    Perhaps a liberal can explain why they find it so bad.

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    (Original post by Magda1502)
    So opinions should carry more weight depending on where the holder's ancestors were from? Interesting. How far back do you go then?
    Not sure about that. I was referring to the fact that there is a double standard in the case of accepting it's reasonable for other ethnic groups to restrict immigration (eg. Tibetans, Japanese, Israel, most African countries, Mexico) but it's seen as strange for European countries to do the same.

    Pew Global research shows the majority in developed and developing countries surveyed want immigration restricted. The moral shaming only seems to occur in respect of european countries or politicians who pursue this. It's an appalling double standard.

    Hence my question of what Roche's view on immigration to Israel is. Is she being consistent, or is it a case of immigration is fine to a country in which she is an ethnic minority, but not to a country where she would be part of an ethnic majority? Are some ethnic interests acceptable but others are not? Why is that?
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    If anyone is wondering what happened with the investigation, I've had TWO emails now from Companies House saying that they can't meet their usual timeframe for response as "complex" enquiries into Migration Matters Campaign Ltd are ongoing, the most recent on 8th April saying a further response would be issued "within 10 working days" which are up soon.

    I notice in the time since that the site has changed twice, with several of the numbers from they "migration myths" claims vanishing or changing. At one point, they had added their company number to comply with UK law; the company number has now vanished again and the site is now breaking UK law again.

    I'll let you know what Companies House say!
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    People with a vested or emotional interest will always find statistics and half baked evidence to back up their views.
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    People with a vested or emotional interest will always find statistics and half baked evidence to back up their views.
    That's certainly the case with the people from Migration Matters Trust. They appear to be pursuing their own ethnic interests at the expense of the majority of Britains. They are like Chinese arguing that it would make economic sense for Tibet to increase immigration. Or perhaps a Palestinian Group arguing Israel would economically benefit massively from increased immigration.
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    With news that Spain's unemployment level is now at a record high of over 27%, I'd be interested to see how that reconciles with migration flows.

    If I look at this table http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta..._2009-2011.png what I think I'm seeing is that Spain has "enjoyed" the highest inward migration numbers of both EU and non-EU migrations over the last few years.

    And yet... "Spain's unemployment rate is at a new record high, pushing the total number of jobless now to more than 6 million. And the country's economy is still contracting at a rate of nearly 1.5 per cent."

    Let's start with this table showing that Romanians are by far the highest number of immigrants to Spain, a +2,631% percent increase.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra...European_Union

    See, here's where I'm confused - mass, uncontrolled immigration brings huge benefits according to groups like Migration Matters Campaign Ltd.

    And yet Spain is showing entirely the opposite experience. It's almost as if we're being lied to.
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    (Original post by digitaltoast)
    With news that Spain's unemployment level is now at a record high of over 27%, I'd be interested to see how that reconciles with migration flows.

    See, here's where I'm confused - mass, uncontrolled immigration brings huge benefits according to groups like Migration Matters Campaign Ltd.

    And yet Spain is showing entirely the opposite experience. It's almost as if we're being lied to.
    You have to remember that for people like Barbara Roche the economic argument doesn't really matter. She sees it as morally good to increase immigration to the UK and make it more ethnically diverse. That's in her ethnic interests as a member of a minority that has historically experienced persecution. Accordingly, she and many like her believe multiculturalism will make things safer for jewish people. Of course, that is now backfiring spectacularly as Islamic migrants are driving out jews to the extent that the former EU Commissioner said they had no future in the Netherlands.

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Je...he-Netherlands

    She an others like her are impervious to economic arguments. If she really believed it she would be arguing that Israel would benefit economically from increased immigration.

    Once you understand that you will appreciate why she is happy to cherry pick figures and ignore evidence that contradict what she's after.
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    Well done OP, top notch research.
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    Thanks!

    I also got reminded of Ireland's housing bubble recently.

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...at-never-were/

    "In 2010, while traveling in and around Roosky, a small village on the River Shannon, Ms. Anex, 27, noticed a number of empty houses. All of them were new; all of them “waiting for somebody to come.”

    Communities in Ireland where more than half of homes are vacant or incomplete are known as “Ghost Estates,” which is also the title of Ms. Anex’s haunting photo essay. The emptiness symbolizes the country’s degrading economic situation. But it goes beyond visual representation. The estates have had a very physical effect on the face of the open landscape."

    Now, as immigrants leave the country, young people strive to move away, and unfinished houses remain unfinished, the question is whether to put the finishing touches on the buildings, or to knock them down. The problem is that either option costs money.
    Migrant workers are just that - migratory. They have no tie to the land that feeds them. As soon as the grass is greener, they'll be over the fence. The clue is in the name "migrant worker".

    In Ireland's case, the economy has paid for it in financial terms, but more importantly, the landscape has paid of it with the devastation of green fields with tens of thousands of empty homes which will never be lived in.

    I wonder if Migration Matters Campaign Ltd factored something like that into all the figures they bandied around in interviews?
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    (Original post by digitaltoast)
    Thanks!

    I also got reminded of Ireland's housing bubble recently.

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...at-never-were/

    Migrant workers are just that - migratory. They have no tie to the land that feeds them. As soon as the grass is greener, they'll be over the fence. The clue is in the name "migrant worker".

    In Ireland's case, the economy has paid for it in financial terms, but more importantly, the landscape has paid of it with the devastation of green fields with tens of thousands of empty homes which will never be lived in.

    I wonder if Migration Matters Campaign Ltd factored something like that into all the figures they bandied around in interviews?
    Hang on. So when immigrants put a strain on resources you blame them for coming and when a government actually plans ahead but short term circumstances force them to leave, you blame them.

    As the economic picture improves in addition to its birth rate we will see these houses filled, lets stop looking at the short term.
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    u.k should import high skilled immigrants mainly.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Hang on. So when immigrants put a strain on resources you blame them for coming and when a government actually plans ahead but short term circumstances force them to leave, you blame them.

    As the economic picture improves in addition to its birth rate we will see these houses filled, lets stop looking at the short term.
    As you've clearly thought your answer through, talk me through a few of things. First, a paragraph from one of the article:

    Hardly a town or village in Leitrim – the least populated county in Ireland and the worst affected by the over-enthusiastic builders – has been untouched. Pretty lakeside villages with perhaps just 200 residents now have 50 empty 'dream homes' in new developments where fading advertising signs boast of private moorings and roof gardens now with brambles growing over the gardens, potholed roads unfinished and adorned with graffiti by the kids who use them as drinking dens.

    The only solution that seems to have been put into action is fencing off the estates – hiding the embarrassing problem behind huge sheets of wood – leaving the houses to crumble into disrepair away from the gaze of despairing neighbours who paid full price for an identical house just 200 yards away.
    So
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    As the economic picture improves in addition to its birth rate we will see these houses filled
    .

    The birth rate in Ireland is falling: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ei&v=25

    Let's assume it mysteriously rises again, according to the BBC "the average age of first-time buyers is now 30, up from 29 a year ago". Let's again assume that figure remains mysteriously the same.

    Now, there's no money to complete these houses.

    Between now and 30 years time, talk me through what you think will happen to these buildings?

    Here's a good parallel: Chernobyl happened about 27 years ago. This is what fully complete and finished infrastructure from then looks like now: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...25-years-later

    In your vision, we have to contend not only with nature but vandals, thieves etc.

    I'd be fascinated to hear how you think your idea would work...
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    (Original post by digitaltoast)
    As you've clearly thought your answer through, talk me through a few of things. First, a paragraph from one of the article:

    So .

    The birth rate in Ireland is falling: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ei&v=25

    Let's assume it mysteriously rises again, according to the BBC "the average age of first-time buyers is now 30, up from 29 a year ago". Let's again assume that figure remains mysteriously the same.

    Now, there's no money to complete these houses.

    Between now and 30 years time, talk me through what you think will happen to these buildings?

    Here's a good parallel: Chernobyl happened about 27 years ago. This is what fully complete and finished infrastructure from then looks like now: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...25-years-later

    In your vision, we have to contend not only with nature but vandals, thieves etc.

    I'd be fascinated to hear how you think your idea would work...
    Apologies, should have said that the Irish population is expected to increase..

    http://airo.ie/news/europe-2060-popu...-interact-data

    They won't stay for 30 years, there can't be that much of an excess that it would take 30 years to fill.

    Money may not be available now but over time i'm a sure a developer will renovate and sell them.
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    All for immigration, just not mass-immigration. Against the EU, topic title says £18bn in five years.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...bn-a-year.html

    Telegraph article says EU costs 118bn a year. so thats 590bn in 5 years.
 
 
 
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