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    (Original post by Steevee)
    You should thank those that pay for you.
    Do you mean me or the you as in plural - you, as you don't know anything about me other than maybe my opinion on this thread!
    I pay for me, I pay my taxes, I pay my Contributions when I work as probably you do too - and in fact the majority of people on so called benefits whom work.

    Bearing in mind the average working class person costs the State more than they'll ever provide to it.
    You mean the scroungers!

    Of course, you don't have to be Victorian about it, I understand the role the working class play in an economy. What I mean rather is that there should be a bit of grace about them, rather than demanding more, villifying those that actually put into the system and so forth.
    Every UK citizen puts into the system one way or another, remember "we are all in it together"

    But of course, you wouldn't understand that, because you see the succesful as the enemy,
    good luck to them (tough for the scrounger class though eh!)

    the rich as a cash cow and companies as oweing every worker some kind of debt.
    The megopolies (energy companies, banks, A4E's etc) set up by this and predecessor governments owe the citizens of this land the proper corporation and profits-taxes, as well as decent pay and conditions, so that we wouldn't need in-work benefits - or do you not agree with that.
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    If you are poor you don't need a living room, especially in London where space is scarce.
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    (Original post by mclean)
    The government gives me money in the form of a student loan. They don't give me enough money to have my own house or one with a spare bedroom, so I share a house with some other students.

    It's not that complicated. People needing only one or two bedrooms should be encouraged to share.

    I don't see what the problem is, you're still getting free accommodation, paid for by somebody else's hard work
    Well said!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    They are completely related. The alleged justification for the harassment of poor people underway is the deficit. The amounts owed in tax avoidance and evasion schemes approved of by inaction by the HMRC and successive governments vastly exceed any savings, by an order of magnitude at least.
    I think we should tackle both simultaneously- with greater emphasis on reducing tax Evasion of course
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    On the contrary, it's the proponents who chat the greatest ****e:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-about-welfare

    :dunce:
    That article is a pile of *******s. For example, when they talk about the shortage of one bed properties I notice that they mean social housing. Housing benefit also covers renting in the private sector.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You are simply finding a different way to repeat the same lie, that the current attacks are attacks on undeserving scroungers. In the main, they are not. The majority of those targeted are the working poor.

    But the government's changes to the personal allowance will ensure over 3 million of the poorest will pay nothing in income tax! And everyone else gets a tax cut!
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    That article is a pile of *******s. For example, when they talk about the shortage of one bed properties I notice that they mean social housing. Housing benefit also covers renting in the private sector.
    Don't forget that there are up to 710,000 empty houses in England alone!
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    The megopolies (energy companies, banks, A4E's etc) set up by this and predecessor governments owe the citizens of this land the proper corporation and profits-taxes, as well as decent pay and conditions, so that we wouldn't need in-work benefits - or do you not agree with that.
    You may pay your contributions, but the point stands, that the average working class person will require more in real cash terms, from the State than they will ever pay to the State.

    Why would I mean scroungers? Are you attempting to put words into my mouth? Poor form chap.

    Of course we do, but some put in more than others. And those that do put in more are constantly told they need to put more in, they need to do more, give more away etc, rather than being praised as those that actually contribute to the upkeep of society.

    The Companies and Corporations 'owe' nothing to society, just as workers 'owe' nothing to their workplace. A worker requires a job, a company requires a worker, it's a symbiotic relationship.
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    (Original post by a729)
    But the government's changes to the personal allowance will ensure over 3 million of the poorest will pay nothing in income tax! And everyone else gets a tax cut!
    You are referring of course to the new £10K target tax allowance, woopee great if you are a high earner.
    The net effect of the 'feel-good' tax allowance bump will be mitigated by the reduction in tax-credits and housing benefits for the low paid. Add to that the spiraling inflation (not the lie 2.8% figure piped out by ONS), I mean the cost of motoring, energy, food and rents we all are buckling under.
    It does nothing for out-of-work benefits recipients who will get a meagerly 1% rise and hammered by bedroom tax. We all pay taxes by other routes, VAT, fuel duty and so on- its not just income tax that affects your income!
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    (Original post by Martynb87)
    No there is not, i am currently working with a trade union group looking into the impact of the 'bedroom tax' and other attacks on the welfare state. In Derby there is a massive shortage of one bedroom social housing and it's the same throughout the country. It will only make things so much worse for the most vulnerable.

    People are so short sighted on this subject it is ridiculous, asking people to take in lodgers or move from their family home regardless of length of tenancy or health is unfair.

    What about a separated father who keeps two rooms for his children to visit? Should he just give up on having a relationship with his children just so he can heat his house and feed himself?

    Or parents who's child is away at university? The parents may be considered to have a spare room if they don't fulfill some criteria!

    Advice being given....
    Number 1 move??? to where i ask when there is a shortage of smaller homes?
    Number 2 take in a lodger??? yeah that's a great idea, let a stranger into your home if you may be vulnerable or have dependents like children.
    Number 3 Increase the hours you work??? haha if only it was that easy
    Number 4 Get a job??? are they on a wind up?

    source http://www.lbbd.gov.uk/AdviceBenefit...s2013FAQs.aspx

    This is an act of class war, plain and simple

    Firstly why's a trade union getting involved in this?

    secondly its the 21st century so can we stop with the chants if class war. Some of us actually have to foot the bill for this.

    so you'll excuse me for feeling the need to go short because somebody would like to keep spare bedrooms to see their kids once a week.
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    You are referring of course to the new £10K target tax allowance, woopee great if you are a high earner.
    The net effect of the 'feel-good' tax allowance bump will be mitigated by the reduction in tax-credits and housing benefits for the low paid. Add to that the spiraling inflation (not the lie 2.8% figure piped out by ONS), I mean the cost of motoring, energy, food and rents we all are buckling under.
    It does nothing for out-of-work benefits recipients who will get a meagerly 1% rise and hammered by bedroom tax. We all pay taxes by other routes, VAT, fuel duty and so on- its not just income tax that affects your income!


    Where are your figures for a higher inflation rate than is stated by ONS?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    ..
    The Companies and Corporations 'owe' nothing to society, just as workers 'owe' nothing to their workplace. A worker requires a job, a company requires a worker, it's a symbiotic relationship.
    Non-financial companies in the UK hold around £700 billion in cash reserves, (mainly in off-shore holdings) - Deloitte Feb 2012.
    So these companies are free to suck massive amounts of cash out of the UK economy, leaving it (us) in billions of national debt, and thats Ok its fine they can keep it all- and we go around attacking the poorest in society with punitive fiscal measures. Not to mention the millions in bonuses paid out to a handful of executives in my (your) banks. Sorry I think the Co's and Bros owes UK BIG time. An unemployed requires a job which are few and far between, totally disgraceful Osborne and Co. I think they (this cabinet) should be on PBR
    (Payment by Results) until they get the books balanced - as Gordon Brown managed to do _ I suppose it takes a Labour leader to do it.
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    (Original post by a729)
    But the government's changes to the personal allowance will ensure over 3 million of the poorest will pay nothing in income tax! And everyone else gets a tax cut!

    You're attempting to bring balance into the argument.
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    You are referring of course to the new £10K target tax allowance, woopee great if you are a high earner.
    The net effect of the 'feel-good' tax allowance bump will be mitigated by the reduction in tax-credits and housing benefits for the low paid. Add to that the spiraling inflation (not the lie 2.8% figure piped out by ONS), I mean the cost of motoring, energy, food and rents we all are buckling under.
    It does nothing for out-of-work benefits recipients who will get a meagerly 1% rise and hammered by bedroom tax. We all pay taxes by other routes, VAT, fuel duty and so on- its not just income tax that affects your income!
    You come across slightly condescending to be honest.

    You're first point is wrong as the real high earners don't receive a personal allowance at all!

    Inflation affects everyone regardless of income-although it harms savers in particular

    Many working poor won't get a pay rise so the unemployed should be grateful they got a rise at all to be frank

    Unfortunately they didn't lower VAT but I prefer income tax cuts across the board

    The housing benefit cap would affect the unemployed the most-after all the more you work the less benefits you're entitled to anyway
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Firstly why's a trade union getting involved in this?

    secondly its the 21st century so can we stop with the chants if class war. Some of us actually have to foot the bill for this.

    so you'll excuse me for feeling the need to go short because somebody would like to keep spare bedrooms to see their kids once a week.
    Loool well some people see the welfare state as an employer and claiming benefits as the job so maybe they might be looking advice to set up a trade union for benefit claimants loool!

    That's the problem , people seem to be happy to spend /receive money that was forcibly taken from others lol
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You're attempting to bring balance into the argument.
    We need rational people to keep the loony left in check!
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    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    If you are poor you don't need a living room, especially in London where space is scarce.
    Sadly this is true- there are stories of major overcrowding in London
    Especially in borough's like Tower Hamlets
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    I agree with that statement entirely.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21998784

    Do you agree?

    There is not a single argument against the bedroom tax for example.
    Oh, bigotry and ignorance, how you fuel the tory opinions.
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    (Original post by a729)
    Sadly this is true- there are stories of major overcrowding in London
    Especially in borough's like Tower Hamlets

    How much of that is down to cultural issues though?
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    (Original post by a729)
    You come across slightly condescending to be honest.

    You're first point is wrong as the real high earners don't receive a personal allowance at all!

    Inflation affects everyone regardless of income-although it harms savers in particular

    Many working poor won't get a pay rise so the unemployed should be grateful they got a rise at all to be frank

    Unfortunately they didn't lower VAT but I prefer income tax cuts across the board

    The housing benefit cap would affect the unemployed the most-after all the more you work the less benefits you're entitled to anyway
    EGHH -AND YOU'RE NOT!

    High earners receive the £10k allowance give away like everyone else - YES/NO.
    Im sure such £40K'rs won't be made homeless through the new Welfare Reform measures.

    Inflation effects everyone that includes the poorest whom can't afford savings anyhow- so its not a savings issue but a survival issue for them.

    Many working poor will soon be joining the unemployed queue- where they will be forced through welfare to do the same job they done before for their benefit.

    I bet they soon will up VAT and blame it on Europe!

    Housing benefit is paid out to low earners so they will be affected by the new measures too.
 
 
 
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