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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    I think education in general is a basic right. There are loans to cover everyone's fees, but not enough to cover living costs and accommodation. That definitely needs reworking. Quite a lot of people will get enough to cover accommodation but then have nothing left to cover living costs. Its such a costly thing. I just think its unfair. There are so many other areas that the government could have chosen to raise money from, yet they chose education. After all, the youth is the future of this country and if the government aren't careful, they won't have enough graduates who are willing to support them.
    I completely agree.. I only get £20 a week from my loan after accommodation costs, which is meant to pay for books, stationary, food, toiletries, utility bills..basically everything except accommodation. Luckily my course hours allow me to have a part time job, so I make enough to support myself, and my family help when possible. But I'm not looking forward to going into third year and having to juggle a dissertation and a job!

    I suppose it could be worse though, obviously if I had medic course hours I wouldn't even be able to have a job
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    As far as I know, they raise with inflation. So the basic amount is £9,000 but it'll have inflation added to it. Its ridiculous. God knows how much debt people will have in 5 or 10 years time...why should we have to pay an obscene amount just because we want an education?
    You don't have to, you have to pay an obscene amount of money just because you want a degree, education has always and will always be free.
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    (Original post by FinnianC)
    Are people really this ignorant? Irrespective of the loaning system and the other meagre tokens put in place, the raising of tuition fees from £3000 to £9000 will categorically affect the poor more than it will the rich. There is no dispute about that. £9000 to someone who doesn't have family members earning that much is gonna be pretty daunting, whilst to a rich person this is less of a big deal.

    Even if the loans are in place, poor people are now even more less likely to attend university, relative to their affluent counterparts. This is unfair, and, as a civilised, 'liberal' society we should hang our heads in shame at this.
    It's funny how the statistics show otherwise. Comprehension of how the loan system works is based on intelligence, so maybe it's good that the people who are put of by it aren't going to university.
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    (Original post by LouLou92)
    I completely agree.. I only get £20 a week from my loan after accommodation costs, which is meant to pay for books, stationary, food, toiletries, utility bills..basically everything except accommodation. Luckily my course hours allow me to have a part time job, so I make enough to support myself, and my family help when possible. But I'm not looking forward to going into third year and having to juggle a dissertation and a job!

    I suppose it could be worse though, obviously if I had medic course hours I wouldn't even be able to have a job
    The only possible ways you have £20 a week to live on is either because you are living somewhere too expensive or your parents earn too much money for you to be entitled to the full loan/grant. Neither situation I have much sympathy with.
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    (Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
    Nobody is priced out, the loan is available for everyone to cover tuition. I hate it when people talk about people not being able to afford to go, because there is so much financial help out there that I just don't believe it. And it's not "debt" as in the traditional sense, if you don't earn enough you don't pay it back, and if you do earn enough then the repayments are reasonable.

    I think calling HE a "basic right" is a bit silly, considering there are so many people in this world who don't even have clean water.
    I think that argument is a bit weak. Sure there are people who don't have access to clean water, but that doesn't mean higher education, or education at all isn't important, in fact, it pays off in the long term as it raises the skill level of the workforce, allowing them to get better, higher paid jobs.

    I think higher education is a basic right to which everyone should have the opportunity for. Sure not everyone wants to go/ has the grades to go, but I think everyone should get the choice and opportunity.
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    As far as I know, they raise with inflation. So the basic amount is £9,000 but it'll have inflation added to it. Its ridiculous. God knows how much debt people will have in 5 or 10 years time...why should we have to pay an obscene amount just because we want an education?
    Increase fees to account for inflation isn't ridiculous. In nominal terms, then people are clearly paying more, but in real terms they will pay the same in the future as they do today.
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    Surely the only people that are negatively affected by the new fees are those who go straight into decently paying jobs (£21,000+) as they're the only ones who will be immediately repaying them?
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    (Original post by CRIKEY12)
    If you compare fees to the cost of private schools, it does put the amount into some perspective. And if we did this, it would also shift the mindset away from being disgruntled, to an understanding of the cost of education.
    Once you have established that Unis will take the major element of funding from fees charged, hiking the fees in line with inflation is inevitable.
    When you apply, are you applying for a cost over 3-4 years or does the amount change yearly. So you might start at £9,000 and it could be £13,000 at the end. or if you apply at £9000 does this cost apply for the course duration?
    How much do you think inflation is? o.0 that's a 44% increase...

    Inflation is on the order of 2% per year.

    Anyway, the amount changes yearly and this applied to even before the tuition fee hike. I started university in 2009 and I think at the start the tuition fee was ~£3000 for the year and now in my final year its ~£3,350
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    I think education in general is a basic right. There are loans to cover everyone's fees, but not enough to cover living costs and accommodation. That definitely needs reworking. Quite a lot of people will get enough to cover accommodation but then have nothing left to cover living costs. Its such a costly thing. I just think its unfair. There are so many other areas that the government could have chosen to raise money from, yet they chose education. After all, the youth is the future of this country and if the government aren't careful, they won't have enough graduates who are willing to support them.
    Are you quite mad? You think the government should not only give you the education for free, but should pay you for being there? How absurd. The current system works, if you're willing to work. Anyone that says they cannot afford to go to uni is either stupid or lazy.
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    Next year I will be living in Leamington Spa, I go to Warwick uni, so not the most expensive place ever. After all my bills are paid I will be getting £36 a week to live on.

    My parents earn £18k and £22k, however they are still together so I get a total loan and grant of around £5900.

    I have a friend in uni, who I will be living with next year whose mum chooses not to work, she gets the full loan and grant from student finance and then a further 2.5k grant from Warwick even though her dad earns (slightly) more than either one of my parents, and this works out to just over £9000 per year maintenance with only £1.75k to pay back.

    This is where I feel the system is ****ed up. Her mum chooses not to work, not to contribute to society, and in return my friend gets free money, whereas both of my parents who choose to work and I get much less.

    Now this choice brings such a vast difference in money that it actually works out more cost effective if my parents rent a small flat and make this one of their main living addresses, so "technically" they don't count towards to "household income". Both me and my brother then get about £9k - £10k maintenance where only £1.75k is a loan, so minimum £7.25k free money, which combined between us is less than the cost of renting a small flat for the year.

    Of course that is fraud, so would perhaps not be worth doing, but it does make you think.
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    (Original post by TheIrrational)
    Next year I will be living in Leamington Spa, I go to Warwick uni, so not the most expensive place ever. After all my bills are paid I will be getting £36 a week to live on.

    My parents earn £18k and £22k, however they are still together so I get a total loan and grant of around £5900.

    I have a friend in uni, who I will be living with next year whose mum chooses not to work, she gets the full loan and grant from student finance and then a further 2.5k grant from Warwick even though her dad earns (slightly) more than either one of my parents, and this works out to just over £9000 per year maintenance with only £1.75k to pay back.

    This is where I feel the system is ****ed up. Her mum chooses not to work, not to contribute to society, and in return my friend gets free money, whereas both of my parents who choose to work and I get much less.

    Now this choice brings such a vast difference in money that it actually works out more cost effective if my parents rent a small flat and make this one of their main living addresses, so "technically" they don't count towards to "household income". Both me and my brother then get about £9k - £10k maintenance where only £1.75k is a loan, so minimum £7.25k free money, which combined between us is less than the cost of renting a small flat for the year.

    Of course that is fraud, so would perhaps not be worth doing, but it does make you think.
    The figures for what your friend will get as a loan and a grant are wrong, there will be much more than £1,750 in loan form, but more pertinently you are advocating penalising your friend because of her Mum's decision not to work.
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    (Original post by James82)
    The only possible ways you have £20 a week to live on is either because you are living somewhere too expensive or your parents earn too much money for you to be entitled to the full loan/grant. Neither situation I have much sympathy with.

    My rent is 74 pounds a week not including bills which is pretty typical for the area I'm living in, and it's again a typical student house and I share with 5 others.

    One parent is a teacher, and my step-parent who is on the loan application is self-employed and earns around 10 grand a year so no, neither of them are earning buckets of money unfortunately. But like I said they do help me out when textbooks are expensive if they can.

    I do get a grant as well as my maintenance loan - but after accommodation it is still only 20 pounds a week.

    edit - just worked it out exactly and I get 23.25 per week.

    despite how my posts come across I'm not trying to complain because I know it could be worse and I am lucky to have a job at the same time. Just makes me lol how studentfinance expect 23.25 to be enough to live on!
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    (Original post by James82)
    The figures for what your friend will get as a loan and a grant are wrong, there will be much more than £1,750 in loan form, but more pertinently you are advocating penalising your friend because of her Mum's decision not to work.
    Yes I am, her mum does not work, does not pay taxes, and hence she gets the taxes from others who do work. So not only are they supporting her, they are then expected to support their own children.
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    (Original post by TheIrrational)
    Yes I am, her mum does not work, does not pay taxes, and hence she gets the taxes from others who do work. So not only are they supporting her, they are then expected to support their own children.
    Interesting views, personally I would treat all children separately from their parents, but what you are saying is that you deserve to be treated independently from your parents and your friend should be treated worse because their Mum chooses not to work.
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    (Original post by FinnianC)
    Are people really this ignorant? Irrespective of the loaning system and the other meagre tokens put in place, the raising of tuition fees from £3000 to £9000 will categorically affect the poor more than it will the rich. There is no dispute about that. £9000 to someone who doesn't have family members earning that much is gonna be pretty daunting, whilst to a rich person this is less of a big deal.

    Even if the loans are in place, poor people are now even more less likely to attend university, relative to their affluent counterparts. This is unfair, and, as a civilised, 'liberal' society we should hang our heads in shame at this.
    I think the only reason that poorer people are put off is because they haven't understood how the finance system works. Most of the time they're better off whilst at uni than their coursemates with wealthier parents.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by James82)
    Interesting views, personally I would treat all children separately from their parents, but what you are saying is that you deserve to be treated independently from your parents and your friend should be treated worse because their Mum chooses not to work.
    There you go, I would definitely agree that people should be given money separate to what their parents earn. I'm being penalized because both my parents work and have stayed together, they both contribute in tax and don't claim benefits and yet I'm the penalised one?

    I don't want to have to rely on my parents for money while I'm in university.

    I have other friends, who live with their mum because their parents are divorced, and hence also get the full money, however they have a dad who earns £80k+ which apparently doesn't matter at all.

    The ones who are penalised most by this system are those who's parents stayed together and both work.

    I would 100% agree that people should be funded separate to their parents earnings.

    Just done a little more research

    Name:  WarwickBur.png
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    Here is the table of what you get by you parents earnings at Warwick. I'm dead middle in the max repayable bit. So I'm going to have the biggest actual loan, which just angers me because I'm going to be paying back for the longest of anyone because my parents are still together and average earners... It's just ridiculous? They aren't going to support me, so it will be living off very little money.
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    This can only be seen as a good thing. Too many people today are at Universities to get drunk, sleep around and they basically see it as a free ride. The lower classes at Uni drag down their betters; they talk in class and are disruptive, one wonder if they have ever been taught anything, let alone any manners.
    Increasing the fees will mean the dredges of society will have to find work and will not use Universities as a cash cow, with the loans and grants they would receive for being so poor.
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    (Original post by Abbseh)
    I've been reading through various university prospectuses and it seems the fees are going to rise again. One phrase particularly caught my attention which was:
    "2014 fees are subject to government approval"
    To further back this up on the bursary page of York's prospectus the phrase 'increased number available in 2014' appeared through various bursaries.

    Are they really going to put them up AGAIN but have shied away from publicising it?
    Other than rises for inflation any change to the cap on tuition fees of ~£9k pa would have to go through parliament.

    The reason that prospectuses say "subject to approval/change" is that any university wanting to charge above £6kpa has to get annual approval of their Access Agreement from OFFA. This approval comes through in the July before students start each year (while obviously the prospectus is printed around 16 months before this).
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    Well be happy you don't live in America, where some schools charge over $100,000 per year
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    (Original post by Abbseh)
    I've been reading through various university prospectuses and it seems the fees are going to rise again. One phrase particularly caught my attention which was:
    "2014 fees are subject to government approval"
    To further back this up on the bursary page of York's prospectus the phrase 'increased number available in 2014' appeared through various bursaries.

    Are they really going to put them up AGAIN but have shied away from publicising it?
    I'm doubtful they would, given it would likely discourage some potential students from going. It'd probably also increase the proportion that apply for funded courses i.e. currently NHS funded courses (which may not last much longer themselves!). Plus, I think they'd struggle to keep another fee rise under wraps!
 
 
 
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