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The right, the welfare system and its propaganda Watch

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    (Original post by Swanbow)
    Can't disagree with you there to be honest. The mismanagement of government spending is ridiculous. Surely however efforts should be taken to introduce leaner and better management and remove unnecessary benefits before hitting at the at the pay of public sector workers. I can understand it was necessary as a temporary measure, but seriously capping their increase at one percent until 2016 is going to hit a lot of families hard and going to do nothing to increase consumer spending. But yeah much rather have efficient state as your stating, easier said than done though.
    Workers across the board have experienced real drops in income since 2009 and this will continue; the government are basically financing the bank rescue (complete with continuing lavish bonuses for bankers - thank goodness - we wouldn't want any suffering in those quarters) by squeezing the incomes of the poor, working class, middle class and people who rely on savings like pensioners.

    At the same time, the steps that would really fix the underlying cause, the credit collapse, like allowing certain banks to go bust (whilst safeguarding ordinary savers), breaking the banks up and shutting down some of the more grotesque casino operations that continue in the too-big-to-fail institutions have not so far been taken. The Coalition pay lip service to them but take few actions.

    The economy is going to continue to stagnate and the only answer they have is to squeeze incomes still further. They are already rounding on the disabled and the very poor - the next step probably will be to launch a severe attack on things like teacher's pay, civil servants, doctors, nurses, etc. In Ireland all of these groups have had big pay cuts.

    So far the number of prosecutions for those who were corruptly involved in key parts of the crisis, like the bankers and accountancies in the UK who helped Lehmans and others hide the depths of their problems, is, er, nil.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Workers across the board have experienced real drops in income since 2009 and this will continue; the government are basically financing the bank rescue (complete with continuing lavish bonuses for bankers - thank goodness - we wouldn't want any suffering in those quarters) by squeezing the incomes of the poor, working class, middle class and people who rely on savings like pensioners.

    At the same time, the steps that would really fix the underlying cause, the credit collapse, like allowing certain banks to go bust (whilst safeguarding ordinary savers), breaking the banks up and shutting down some of the more grotesque casino operations that continue in the too-big-to-fail institutions have not so far been taken. The Coalition pay lip service to them but take few actions.

    The economy is going to continue to stagnate and the only answer they have is to squeeze incomes still further. They are already rounding on the disabled and the very poor - the next step probably will be to launch a severe attack on things like teacher's pay, civil servants, doctors, nurses, etc. In Ireland all of these groups have had big pay cuts.

    So far the number of prosecutions for those who were corruptly involved in key parts of the crisis, like the bankers and accountancies in the UK who helped Lehmans and others hide the depths of their problems, is, er, nil.
    Workers have experienced real drops in income since 1997 if you measure average wage growth with runaway house prices, if you're prepared to use a different metric like electronic products though thanks to the Chinese real incomes have increased. This is why I don't place too much faith in statistics like these, they can be easily manipulated to suit a particular political agenda...

    There's nothing wrong with casino banking either as long the risks are transparent (within reason if course, if you're gambling there's always an element of risk) and all parties are entering into the arrangement voluntarily. What you're suggesting makes for a good soundbite but it doesn't make for a sound economic policy, if I want to bet my life savings on a FTSE 100 company who is the government to tell me otherwise? How do be objectively determine 'gambling' from a sensible long-term investment when all you're doing is buying shares, purchasing a futures contract (a form of insurance) or using the FOREX market to obtain foreign currency? If people want to engage in such activities then as a libertarian I believe they should be able to, just don't ask for a bailout if it all goes wrong!
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Workers have experienced real drops in income since 1997 if you measure average wage growth with runaway house prices, if you're prepared to use a different metric like electronic products though thanks to the Chinese real incomes have increased. This is why I don't place too much faith in statistics like these, they can be easily manipulated to suit a particular political agenda...

    There's nothing wrong with casino banking either as long the risks are transparent (within reason if course, if you're gambling there's always an element of risk) and all parties are entering into the arrangement voluntarily. What you're suggesting makes for a good soundbite but it doesn't make for a sound economic policy, if I want to bet my life savings on a FTSE 100 company who is the government to tell me otherwise? How do be objectively determine 'gambling' from a sensible long-term investment when all you're doing is buying shares, purchasing a futures contract (a form of insurance) or using the FOREX market to obtain foreign currency? If people want to engage in such activities then as a libertarian I believe they should be able to, just don't ask for a bailout if it all goes wrong!
    You're missing the point. The thing that's wrong with casino banking is that the casinos are underwritten by the taxpayer. Heads - we win. Tails - we win and the taxpayer loses.

    The alleged situation where you bet the house on a stock is not the issue. The situation where a banker does it, knowing that if all the bets go to hell in a handbasket, both the bank and the banker will be fine, because they can draw on state handouts is the issue.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You're missing the point. The thing that's wrong with casino banking is that the casinos are underwritten by the taxpayer. Heads - we win. Tails - we win and the taxpayer loses.

    The alleged situation where you bet the house on a stock is not the issue. The situation where a banker does it, knowing that if all the bets go to hell in a handbasket, both the bank and the banker will be fine, because they can draw on state handouts is the issue.
    I'm not missing the point. Most of the banks that either failed or were bailed out - Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, Alliance and Leicester, HBOS and RBS etc - were common high street mortgage banks. Indeed the first major bank failure -Northern Rock- weren't engaged in what you would disparagingly call 'casino banking' at all. They were deeply involved in the domestic mortgage market however, a strategy which was fine all the time house prices were rising but deeply risky the moment they stopped.

    Casino banking isn't to blame for the state of the economy, The Banksters are being used as a scapegoat by those who don't really know what they're talking about. They're a handy villain who due to their generous remuneration packages are extremely easy to hate on.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    You are so right! There are no government barriers to employment in Somalia (well.. there's no government) and it's totally booming!
    Irrelevant.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Workers across the board have experienced real drops in income since 2009 and this will continue; the government are basically financing the bank rescue (complete with continuing lavish bonuses for bankers - thank goodness - we wouldn't want any suffering in those quarters) by squeezing the incomes of the poor, working class, middle class and people who rely on savings like pensioners.

    At the same time, the steps that would really fix the underlying cause, the credit collapse, like allowing certain banks to go bust (whilst safeguarding ordinary savers), breaking the banks up and shutting down some of the more grotesque casino operations that continue in the too-big-to-fail institutions have not so far been taken. The Coalition pay lip service to them but take few actions.

    The economy is going to continue to stagnate and the only answer they have is to squeeze incomes still further. They are already rounding on the disabled and the very poor - the next step probably will be to launch a severe attack on things like teacher's pay, civil servants, doctors, nurses, etc. In Ireland all of these groups have had big pay cuts.

    So far the number of prosecutions for those who were corruptly involved in key parts of the crisis, like the bankers and accountancies in the UK who helped Lehmans and others hide the depths of their problems, is, er, nil.
    Because the increase pre 2009 was built on a cheap credit. This so called drop is just a case of normalisation to what it should be.

    Other wise you can have an argument of taking out a huge loan from the bank, blowing the money on a jet set life style and then complaining that you can't live the lifestyle you used to when the money runs out.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You're missing the point. The thing that's wrong with casino banking is that the casinos are underwritten by the taxpayer. Heads - we win. Tails - we win and the taxpayer loses.

    The alleged situation where you bet the house on a stock is not the issue. The situation where a banker does it, knowing that if all the bets go to hell in a handbasket, both the bank and the banker will be fine, because they can draw on state handouts is the issue.
    Don't underwrite them with taxpayer money then. Problem solved.
 
 
 
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