Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Maggie Thatcher - The worst PM in UK's history and an economic failure Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    There is a typo in the title it's meant to say best MP


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hostile*****)
    I know a lot about UK and its economy since the Industrial Revolution. Can I be considered an expert? Not entirely, but I definitely obtain superior knowledge to the majority of TSR members about my country.

    Seriously, if I admit she was [extremely] charismatic and I do get her appeal as the Iron Lady but when it comes to her economic arrangements - no thank you. Never ever shall this scourge visit my lovely jord.
    You do realize Sweden is ranked the 18th most free market economy in the world, Germany is 18th,the UK 14th and France 45th.
    SOURCE: Here is the 2013 economic freedom index page,it has some interesting analysis on Sweden's Economy http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Karla_Steinbach)
    I'm Dutch and I truly love Britons as a nation (we're sort of distant cousins with the English Saxons) but I must say Falklands simply do not and should not belong to Britain.

    Should they belong to Argentine? That's disputable.

    The point about Falklands War - yes - it was a criminal act as no sea warfare and airbombarding was necessary to sink the ships full of Argentinian men retreating with a white flag!
    Always wondered what a foreign opinion might be on the Falklands. What would you do with them then?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by snapper1)
    Hitler stuck to his decisions and wasn't swayed by other people either, but he wasn't great was he? I hate this government too but her legacy has haunted this country ever since she left office.
    It was a good feature of him ( his resolve) as it would be in anyone. Ideologically Hitler was absolutely vile. Resolve is a good characteristic you don't change that by changing who you apply it to.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    It's mainly a right wing smear that the left didn't support the Falklands campaign. It was supported by the Labour opposition at the time. Some extreme-left people opposed it, but they were a tiny minority. I heard Tory MPs today in the Thatcher Commemorative Debate ****ging off Michael Foot for opposing the war - absolute bull****. He once or twice made critical remarks about aspects of the conduct of the campaign, but he was supposed to be the *opposition*. He was unswervingly supportive of Thatcher both at the start of the campaign and the end, but he was (as a lifelong pacifist) sad for the loss of life.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Benjie)
    There is a typo in the title it's meant to say best MP


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Someone get this lad an education!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ollier4)
    How many of us were alive when Thatcher was in office? not many
    I spoke to my grandparents today.
    They spent a long time saying how the 80s were considerably better than the 70s. Personally i'd believe them (they did live through both of them), they said how the sight of rubbsh in the street, bodies not being buried, a 3 day working week, not having any coal to heat their homes, the unions riding roughshod over the elected government, inflation in double figures.
    Then (despite everything you've said) Maggie came and they had, for the first time ever in their lives, a disposable income. They went on holiday, they could heat their homes, the government didn't give in every time the miners went out, you were able to get a job without being in a union (an idea heinous to some people such as my grandad). In their views, having lived through it, she (the devil in a dress to some of you) made their lives many times better and easier than before.
    Lol.

    Grandparents were on the right side of the rich/poor divide then! Don't generalise her success on the back of your grandparents, because none of us are.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thriftworks)
    You do realize Sweden is ranked the 18th most free market economy in the world, Germany is 18th,the UK 14th and France 45th.
    SOURCE: Here is the 2013 economic freedom index page,it has some interesting analysis on Sweden's Economy http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden.
    I wasn't born yesterday.

    We have always championed this ranking with Norway et al since pretty much the post-war era and I could explain why by writing a book on it... But it's TSR so I'll just rapidly explain.

    Sweden is friendly in terms of innovation, entrepreneurial acts and always has been and that is what makes top those rankings. You will find a lot more "economic freedom" in low-taxed Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic or UK, but all of those are matchless to Sweden that - while embraces progressive taxation and redistribution of wealth - does not allow the businesses to monopolize and for the small/medium businesses to fail as a result.

    We have a mixed economy with state intervention etc, but that does not mean we're any less free or small/medium business friendly than others. In fact it's the opposite. We make sure economy serves everyone.

    Btw our current right-wing government is a) small b) sucks c) focuses on non-EU immigration as a social issue d) cannot pass a major economic reform e) will be voted out in 2015 with Cameron.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    Thatcherism produced:

    1) Shifting of the means of production to the developing countries for cheap, exploiting labour power

    2) Record levels of unemployment reaching higher than what can be witnessed in the present-day ordoliberal Poland

    3) Making the British economy entirely dependent on the finance sector, more so than Switzerland

    4) Creating the gigantic monopolies and oligarchs alongside, such as the Six main banks, Six main energy companies so that we could compete with perestroikan Russia

    5) Destroying the leftover of respect, dignity and influence for the organized labour which has been remarked by the greatest faculties of mind as essential for the commodity producing society, i.e. Adam Smith

    6) As far as practicing fierce capitalism, Baroness was willing to give in to American companies in Westland Affair

    7) Marketization of education which, as opposed to 'parentocracy' created the A-C economy with millions being permanently written off and the wealthy having a substantial socio-economic advantage in education ever since

    8) Devastated the concept of social mobility and meritocracy with repealing of the measures despite the Black Report of 1980

    9) Despite being the outspoken Eurosceptic, Baroness in fact passed more power and always complied with the Brussels policy

    10) Failed at Hong Kong

    11) Falklands War Criminal

    12) Poll tax was the final blow to any concept of fiscal justice

    13) Led to the record levels of crime

    14) Destroyed the socialized NHS with market influence of private companies, making the private sector medical services superior to public

    15) Portrayed the Celtic nations as inferior, especially in the case of Northern Ireland struggle or Wales

    16) Britain's childhood-poverty rate in 1997 was the highest in Europe

    17) During her government Britain's Gini coefficient reflected this growing difference, going from 0.25 in 1979 to 0.34 in 1990.

    18) Shifting back the Victorian societal values undermining ethnic minorities, different sexual orientations, different family units and any 'deviance from mainstream'

    19) Re-enchantment of the world with her Methodist beliefs and damaging the process of secularization

    20) Inflicted a severe damage upon the pensioners and the safety net system desired for them despite the most loyal contribution to the British economy and wealth creation throughout their best years of their lives

    21) Last but not least, Baroness alienated the Britons from their communities. Philosophically speaking: separation of the subject from the object was at its zenith. Record levels of suicide, mental illness, depression and millions of lives betrayed from childhood, parenthood and senility.
    Somebody doesn't know what they're talking about?

    Have you come up with this list yourself or are you a child of a bitter NUM scargill supporter?
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    I did not know winning three consecutive Elections is bad

    She is up there because she is the UK's first female PM and was the longest.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hostile*****)
    I wasn't born yesterday.

    We have always championed this ranking with Norway et al since pretty much the post-war era and I could explain why by writing a book on it... But it's TSR so I'll just rapidly explain.

    Sweden is friendly in terms of innovation, entrepreneurial acts and always has been and that is what makes top those rankings. You will find a lot more "economic freedom" in low-taxed Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic or UK, but all of those are matchless to Sweden that - while embraces progressive taxation and redistribution of wealth - does not allow the businesses to monopolize and for the small/medium businesses to fail as a result.

    We have a mixed economy with state intervention etc, but that does not mean we're any less free or small/medium business friendly than others. In fact it's the opposite. We make sure economy serves everyone.

    Btw our current right-wing government is a) small b) sucks c) focuses on non-EU immigration as a social issue d) cannot pass a major economic reform e) will be voted out in 2015 with Cameron.
    But the evidence published in this report does not suggest that you have a 'mixed economy' comparability to the rest of the world and even Europe. You have a budding free - market economy.
    May I add only Estonia is ranked higher on the index, thus you are incorrect with you statements about economic freedom in the aforementioned countries. The facts -> http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden scroll left/right between countries to check others positions.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Sinking the Belgrano was not a war crime. End of story.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    Thatcherism produced:
    2) Record levels of unemployment reaching higher than what can be witnessed in the present-day ordoliberal Poland
    Being from Ordoliberal Poland (very accurate way to describe the fiscal approach of Tusk to be honest), I'll add that our cause of unemployment mainly originates from the purge of the public sector bureaucracy of the statist years.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by snapper1)
    Lol.

    Grandparents were on the right side of the rich/poor divide then! Don't generalise her success on the back of your grandparents, because none of us are.
    Dont think so, my mum was the first person ever in her family to go to uni, my grandparents come from the east end, one grandad was from a family of the pits in Co. Durham and the other worked himself to death fixing fridges in the shops of north london.
    Dont generalise people's familys on their political beliefs, she had a lot of wrking class support else she wouldn't have won
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    Thatcherism produced:

    1) Shifting of the means of production to the developing countries for cheap, exploiting labour power

    2) Record levels of unemployment reaching higher than what can be witnessed in the present-day ordoliberal Poland

    3) Making the British economy entirely dependent on the finance sector, more so than Switzerland

    4) Creating the gigantic monopolies and oligarchs alongside, such as the Six main banks, Six main energy companies so that we could compete with perestroikan Russia

    5) Destroying the leftover of respect, dignity and influence for the organized labour which has been remarked by the greatest faculties of mind as essential for the commodity producing society, i.e. Adam Smith

    6) As far as practicing fierce capitalism, Baroness was willing to give in to American companies in Westland Affair

    7) Marketization of education which, as opposed to 'parentocracy' created the A-C economy with millions being permanently written off and the wealthy having a substantial socio-economic advantage in education ever since

    8) Devastated the concept of social mobility and meritocracy with repealing of the measures despite the Black Report of 1980

    9) Despite being the outspoken Eurosceptic, Baroness in fact passed more power and always complied with the Brussels policy

    10) Failed at Hong Kong

    11) Falklands War Criminal

    12) Poll tax was the final blow to any concept of fiscal justice

    13) Led to the record levels of crime

    14) Destroyed the socialized NHS with market influence of private companies, making the private sector medical services superior to public

    15) Portrayed the Celtic nations as inferior, especially in the case of Northern Ireland struggle or Wales

    16) Britain's childhood-poverty rate in 1997 was the highest in Europe

    17) During her government Britain's Gini coefficient reflected this growing difference, going from 0.25 in 1979 to 0.34 in 1990.

    18) Shifting back the Victorian societal values undermining ethnic minorities, different sexual orientations, different family units and any 'deviance from mainstream'

    19) Re-enchantment of the world with her Methodist beliefs and damaging the process of secularization

    20) Inflicted a severe damage upon the pensioners and the safety net system desired for them despite the most loyal contribution to the British economy and wealth creation throughout their best years of their lives

    21) Last but not least, Baroness alienated the Britons from their communities. Philosophically speaking: separation of the subject from the object was at its zenith. Record levels of suicide, mental illness, depression and millions of lives betrayed from childhood, parenthood and senility.
    1) Elaborate. Why did she shift it abroad? Why would it have not gone abroad if she wasn't there?

    2) That was 1984, by 1990 unemployment had halved from 12% in 1984 to 5.5%.

    3) Is it? 25% of corporation tax comes from the oil and gas industries which she stimulated massively. I think there's a common misconception here from people who like to rally to the socialist cause.

    4) I'll accept that in energy the implementation of privatisation was poor but lets not forget BT being a success.

    5) The same organized labour which forced Heath into giving them a 27% pay rise and subsequent inflationary recession? The same organized labour that gave us the 3 day weeks? The same organized labour that brought the country to a halt repeatedly?

    6) Can't say i care.

    7) I'd rather put this down to the fact that she was quite happy for the grammar school system to die. Private schools existed before.

    8) I'm from a benefits background, i'm going to do a Masters at a top university and i am going to get rich. People who say social mobility does not exist do not have the initiative and self belief to seek their goals. As for meritocracy, you need equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

    9) She did indeed change her views but since i'm not a nationalist i actually agree with Heseltine and the like.

    10) Don't know about Hong Kong in relation to Thatcher?

    11) War criminal? They attacked our territory, were that me then i would have destroyed their military assets all down their coastline.

    12) Subjective and actually she originally wanted the council tax, she chose the poll tax because her advisors said that the council tax would be too divisive.

    13) Your blaming Thatcher for the actions of nutty individuals? If i murder you, is that my fault or Cameron's?

    14) Would this be the same NHS which we are told now is one of the most efficient in the world? Why would it have been better without reform? Are you so ideologically blind that you would put public ownership ahead of healthcare? I'd also note that Blair did far more than Thatcher ever dreamed.

    15) Economically, they are. England pays their bills and Scotland just about keeps pace.

    16) And what was it it in 1979?

    17) Can't say i really care.

    18) If your referring to section 28 that was actually a private members bill, not government.

    19) Data does not support you here. The process of secularization begun long before her and showed no signs of abaiting.

    20) Elaborate?

    21) Don't blame somebody else for causing people to be depressed. As for removing people from communities, a lack of labour movement flexibility is damaging to the economy. If you can't find a job, then move.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Karla_Steinbach)
    I'm Dutch and I truly love Britons as a nation (we're sort of distant cousins with the English Saxons) but I must say Falklands simply do not and should not belong to Britain.

    Should they belong to Argentine? That's disputable.

    The point about Falklands War - yes - it was a criminal act as no sea warfare and airbombarding was necessary to sink the ships full of Argentinian men retreating with a white flag!
    Such a view is highly unpopular here so I've given you a minus despite being a left-winger and generally anti-Thatcherite.

    Falklanders are, however, British
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I did not know winning three consecutive Elections is bad

    She is up there because she is the UK's first female PM and was the longest.
    I hate this argument, FPTP is an incredibly flawed voting system in 1979 Thatcher was elected with 43.9% of the vote, turnout was 76%.
    Due to this undemocratic system, the tories with a minority of the vote had a majority within parliament of 43 seats.

    Hers is one of many examples easily found.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's mainly a right wing smear that the left didn't support the Falklands campaign. It was supported by the Labour opposition at the time. Some extreme-left people opposed it, but they were a tiny minority. I heard Tory MPs today in the Thatcher Commemorative Debate ****ging off Michael Foot for opposing the war - absolute bull****. He once or twice made critical remarks about aspects of the conduct of the campaign, but he was supposed to be the *opposition*. He was unswervingly supportive of Thatcher both at the start of the campaign and the end, but he was (as a lifelong pacifist) sad for the loss of life.

    Somebody started linking thatcher with the Falklands in a negative way. And you've guessed it. It was labour.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by luca-cunn)
    I hate this argument, FPTP is an incredibly flawed voting system in 1979 Thatcher was elected with 43.9% of the vote, turnout was 76%.
    Due to this undemocratic system, the tories with a minority of the vote had a majority within parliament of 43 seats.

    Hers is one of many examples easily found.
    The flaws of the electoral system is a different argument. You have failed to look at the 1983 and 1987 Elections
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hostile*****)
    What a horrible witch. I hope Sweden never ever has such a Prime Minister.
    I wish you very well Sverige! :five:
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brussels sprouts
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.