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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw6hmSeTNXY

    I didn't say it was. If you read my post i'm making examples.

    Btw, Is it mandatory for UK Muslims to celebrate Pakistani Independence day in London, Green Street?

    No. Does that mean they shouldn't?

    We have this funny thing called freedom of movement and freedom of speech in this country. It means people are allowed to PICK AND CHOOSE which political events they attend. A lot of pakistanis celebrating pakistani indepence? My goodness! What a f'in shock! Didn't see that one coming!
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw6hmSeTNXY

    I didn't say it was. If you read my post i'm making examples.

    Btw, Is it mandatory for UK Muslims to celebrate Pakistani Independence day in London, Green Street?

    Are we saying Pakistanis are not allowed to celebrate their Independence Day? I'm pretty sure we have the annual Chinese New Year festival across the country too. Shall we stop that too?
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    (Original post by TechnikAli)
    Great post.



    What are you basing this notion that hatred toward the troops is very very strong on? The fact is there's more educating of young people against extremism and how to identify it. There's community action from mosques working with the police. There's active action taken against people preaching hatred under the guise of Islam.

    What action would you like to see? I don't believe that the minute numbers of people preaching hatred should be given a platform or the attention that they want. There's no negotiating with people with extreme views, and extreme views are not limited to Islam.



    Where do you want to see them? Muslims in politics (MPs and councillors) are not invisible, and they wear the poppy just like their colleagues. Are you saying they should go over and beyond what everyone else does, just to prove that they care more than everyone else?

    There's a WW1/2 memorial in France where you will see literally hundreds of gravestones carved with the names of Muslim soldiers who fought as Allies. There's also a huge number of Muslims who died in other regions of the world in WW2 in support of Britain. WW2 was not just a war for Europe or Christianity. Muslims have as much to remember on Remembrance Day as anyone else. Do you remember those troops as well as the British? My grandfather was delivering supplies to the Allied troops across Europe via ships. Muslims do not hate our troops, they have in fact a long history of supporting them.

    I can find someone to lay out a lecture or sermon against extremism in all it's form if you can find me a platform on the BBC to do so?
    Muslim do not have a history of supporting British wars. If you also look at history, Muslims also fought on behalf of Adolf Hitler and fought against us in the war. Don't you know that?

    Hitler described Christianity as gutless and praised Islam on numerous occasions.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    No. Does that mean they shouldn't?

    We have this funny thing called freedom of movement and freedom of speech in this country. It means people are allowed to PICK AND CHOOSE which political events they attend. A lot of pakistanis celebrating pakistani indepence? My goodness! What a f'in shock! Didn't see that one coming!
    Erm, instead of jumping off on one, maybe you should re-read what I said. I'm displaying the difference between Muslims loyalty's toward the UK & Islam + others. Maybe you should re-read my OP. Since your 4 posts in and still have no clue as too what I am referring to.

    I stand by my Thread. Nobody has proved me wrong thus far..
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    Not going to lie but I've always wanted to join the Army or Navy.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    Erm, instead of jumping off on one, maybe you should re-read what I said. I'm displaying the difference between Muslims loyalty's toward the UK & Islam + others. Maybe you should re-read my OP. Since your 4 posts in and still have no clue as too what I am referring to.
    I have plenty of clue what you're referring to, I'm just disagreeing with your conclusions. Not coming to support troops does not make you disloyal, unless you hold totalitarian ideals. That was my point with the North Korea reference. No one owes loyalty to the army.

    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    Muslim do not have a history of supporting British wars. If you also look at history, Muslims also fought on behalf of Adolf Hitler and fought against us in the war. Don't you know that?

    Hitler described Christianity as gutless and praised Islam on numerous occasions.
    And what Hitler says is an accurate portrayal of anything, is it? He also claimed to be defending christianity when it suited him. No muslims having a history of supporting Britain in wars? What about Mohammed Jinnah - the founder of the Muslim league and leader of the Pakistani independence movement, who believed that the best way to secure independence, unlike Gandhi, was by supporting Britain in the war? What about the thousands of Muslim soldiers that fought, and died, for Britain in the British Indian army in the Second World War?

    Before claiming people don't know anything, maybe you should try reading up on some facts yourself, buddy.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    Muslim do not have a history of supporting British wars. If you also look at history, Muslims also fought on behalf of Adolf Hitler and fought against us in the war. Don't you know that?

    Hitler described Christianity as gutless and praised Islam on numerous occasions.

    You've simply avoided in totality the evidence of Muslims fighting alongside British troops in the form of a WW2 Memorial. How about this?
    http://metro.co.uk/2010/11/10/armist...gotten-577418/
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    I have plenty of clue what you're referring to, I'm just disagreeing with your conclusions. Not coming to support troops does not make you disloyal, unless you hold totalitarian ideals. That was my point with the North Korea reference. No one owes loyalty to the army.



    And what Hitler says is an accurate portrayal of anything, is it? He also claimed to be defending christianity when it suited him. No muslims having a history of supporting wars? What about Mohammed Jinnah - the founder of the Muslim league and leader of the Pakistani independence movement, who believed that the best way to secure independence, unlike Gandhi, was by supporting Britain in the war? What about the thousands of Muslim soldiers that fought, and died, for Britain in the British Indian army in the Second World War?

    Before claiming people don't know anything, maybe you should try reading up on some facts yourself, buddy.
    They didn't fight 'for' the British. They fought Nazism which was in everybody's interests. Nobody says Americans fought and died for us do they when they got involved...Everybody fought Nazism. Even Australians. You may as well claim Brits died for Americans in the war. That's just very, leftist thinking. I have never heard anything like 'The Brits died for the Jews' either. Very off-point.
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    (Original post by TechnikAli)
    You've simply avoided in totality the evidence of Muslims fighting alongside British troops in the form of a WW2 Memorial. How about this?
    http://metro.co.uk/2010/11/10/armist...gotten-577418/
    The Spanish, Portuguese & Brits joined up to battle the French once. So what's your point?
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    They didn't fight 'for' the British. They fought Nazism which was in everybody's interests. Nobody says Americans fought and died for us do they when they got involved...Everybody fought Nazism. Even Australians. You may as well claim Brits died for Americans in the war. That's just very, leftist thinking. I have never heard anything like 'The Brits died for the Jews' either. Very off-point.
    So first you claim that Muslims fight against the British when they fight as Hitler's allies (and some Muslims states did, yes), yet when they fight for the British AGAINST Hitler and his allies they are not fighting in support of the British? That's a lot of hypocrisy going on right there. The British Indian Army fought as soldiers of the BRITISH EMPIRE. The clue's in the name. The BRITISH Indian Army. They fought for British interests in Asia.

    Believe it or not, people who have actually studied the history (I very much doubt you have) recognise that the two World Wars were largely fought to preserve empires (empires whose hands were often no cleaner than Hitler's), rather than purely on the basis of 'good' vs 'evil'. Very little in this world is so black and white.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    So first you claim that Muslims fight against the British when they are fight as Hitler's allies (and some Muslims states did, yes), yet when they fight for the British AGAINST Hitler and his allies they are not fighting in support of the British? That's a lot of hypocrisy going on right there. The British Indian Army fought as soldiers of the BRITISH EMPIRE. The clue's in the name. The BRITISH Indian Army. They fought for British interests in Asia.

    Believe it or not, people who have actually studied the history (I very much doubt you have) recognise that the two World Wars were largely fought to preserve empires (empires whose hands were often no cleaner than Hitler's), rather than purely on the basis of 'good' vs 'evil'. Very little in this world is so black and white.
    This is not about WW2. I disagree with your comments as well. They fought Nazism, not for the UK. I don't see what WW2 has to do with anything.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    They didn't fight 'for' the British. They fought Nazism which was in everybody's interests. Nobody says Americans fought and died for us do they when they got involved...Everybody fought Nazism. Even Australians. You may as well claim Brits died for Americans in the war. That's just very, leftist thinking. I have never heard anything like 'The Brits died for the Jews' either. Very off-point.
    Oh another thing: you know which other very well-known army group much-loved by the right-wing press contains a significant number of Muslims? DING DING DING! You guessed, gurkhas.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    This is not about WW2. I disagree with your comments as well. They fought Nazism, not for the UK. I don't see what WW2 has to do with anything.
    They fought for the UK. They were part of the BRITISH Indian army. How is that failing to get through to you? What WW2 has to do with anything is that you claimed that there is no history of muslims supporting the UK in wars. I've just resoundingly proved that to be wrong, and you've suddenly decided it's irrelevant. How convenient.
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    I'm not a Muslim but I think it has to do with drone strikes (although that's from the US).

    I don't think they have a right to hate UK/US troops, but rather their governments.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    They fought for the UK. They were part of the BRITISH Indian army. How is that failing to get through to you? What WW2 it has to do with anything is that you claimed that there is no history of muslims supporting the UK in wars. I've just resoundingly proved that to be wrong, and you've suddenly decided it's irrelevant. How convenient.
    All you're interested in is trying to prove we all owe them something now. They were only part of that army because they were a colony of the government anyway. So lets not beat about the bush here. More Americans fought in the war for us. End of.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    All you're interested in is trying to prove we all owe them something now. They were only part of that army because they were a colony of the government anyway. So lets not beat about the bush here. More Americans fought in the war for us. End of.
    I don't believe 'we all' owe 'them' anything. Except possibly respect and remembrance. Exactly what you're demanding for people who fought for Britain. You're mistaken, in any case. All I'M interested in trying to prove is that the 'facts' you are wheeling out to defend your arguments are bogus.

    Another thing: The British Indian Army was a VOLUNTEER force. These people weren't forced as colonial citizens. They VOLUNTEERED.

    The Americans refused to fight in the war until attacked by Japan. They didn't enter the war until 1941. By that point, thousands of Muslims had already died fighting for Britain. Are you honestly this unwilling to accept fact when it is presented to you?
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    I don't believe 'we all' owe 'them' anything. Except possibly respect and remembrance. Exactly what you're demanding of people who fought for Britain

    Another thing: The British Indian Army was a VOLUNTEER force. These people weren't forced as colonial citizens. They VOLUNTEERED.

    The Americans refused to fight in the war until attacked by Japan. They didn't enter the war until 1941. By that point, thousands of Muslims had already died fighting for Britain. Are you honestly this unwilling to accept fact when it is presented to you?
    THIS ISN't ABOUT WW2!!! The volunteered to fight NAZISM. Im not talking about WW2 anymore & Nazis.

    King Joao 1 of Portugal fought many battles as an ally for Britain. for Centries they were allys in Battle. That doesn't mean Portuguese ppl love our troops. They dont care.

    When King Louis XVI of France was executed in 1793 Britain joined Spain in a growing coalition of European states trying to invade France and defeat the revolution. You have no point. Convo over. Back to the thread
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    THIS ISN't ABOUT WW2!!! The volunteered to fight NAZISM. Im not talking about WW2 anymore & Nazis.

    King Joao 1 of Portugal fought many battles as an ally for Britain. for Centries they were allys in Battle. That doesn't mean Portuguese ppl love our troops. They dont care.

    When King Louis XVI of France was executed in 1793 Britain joined Spain in a growing coalition of European states trying to invade France and defeat the revolution. You have no point.
    My point is that when you said 'there is no history of muslims supporting Britain in wars', it was patently untrue. No one is trying to claim muslims love our troops. Why should they? I don't love our troops. Doesn't mean I hate 'em. Funnily enough, there are an awful lot of emotional states on the scale between 'hate' and 'love'. Not feeling one does not mean feeling the other.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    THIS ISN't ABOUT WW2!!! The volunteered to fight NAZISM. Im not talking about WW2 anymore & Nazis.

    King Joao 1 of Portugal fought many battles as an ally for Britain. for Centries they were allys in Battle. That doesn't mean Portuguese ppl love our troops. They dont care.

    When King Louis XVI of France was executed in 1793 Britain joined Spain in a growing coalition of European states trying to invade France and defeat the revolution. You have no point. Convo over. Back to the thread
    Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmood_Khan_Durrani

    Would someone disloyal to Britain and only fighting Naziism receive the George Cross? And do so because he opposed INDIAN NATIONALISTS in favour of the British government?

    This guy was tortured for Britain. I have plenty of points. The main one being that apparently you can't accept that your arguments are flawed even when it's slapping you right in the face.
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    I do often find Muslims have a pre-determined opposition to Iraq and Afghanistan simply because they're in 'Muslim lands', and of the 3 Muslims I know in person, 2 of them do spout the ridiculous non-arguments about the West just wanting the oil and so on. Which is a little concerning.

    A point I'd like to raise though, related to the OP, is the hypocriosy of the apologetic Left and some Muslims.

    When the likes of the EBL and BNP protest, it's a sign of 'Islamaphobia', and such protests are often used in a wider context and applied to the odd story in the Daily Mail to portray and 'Islamaphobic Agenda', that is to say that they feel the majority of people need to be 're-educated' on Islam. However, these groups are just as far in the minority as the radicals we see on the street in support of Islamism. Indeed, you see far more outcry and opposition to the first set of people than you do the second. It seems to me a case of double standards, which is not unexpected really, but worth commenting upon.
 
 
 
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