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    (Original post by The Polymath)
    However, if you were to make state education more uniform and remove this 'academy' freedom business, this would make it difficult for these parents to improve their own schools without affecting others too - they'd have to pursue more national policies like improving teacher hiring policies, changes in curriculum etc.
    Simply removing academies would not make all schools the same - government cannot control education so closely that all schools will be the same - were they all the same before academisation? Furthermore, the effects of national policies are limited in their scope. Most of the changes at a national level have a fairly minimal effect on the actual quality of education, although I suppose that's more in the nature of the policies generally implemented. The greatest improvements a school can have are funding and support - both of which parents give locally, rather than nationally.
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    (Original post by The Polymath)
    Grammar schools provide a better education suited to those with the talent to get into them, rather than rich parents. That's just the state system providing a suitable education for its students, which means stretching more capable students.
    True but private schools do boast being better academically. I think improving state school standards would be the best thing to do
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    (Original post by Dragonfly07)
    Some points to compliment the OP:

    I think that most privately schooled children aren't taught the school material better, but rather they get taught the best techniques to pass exams and to do well in interviews (been to a private school for only a year and the difference is immense. Lots of mock interviews).

    Also in general, privately schooled children are more motivated than public school children simply because their parents push them harder/they have more expectations from them.

    In general, I don't think that private school standards are any better than public school standards.
    Certainly at good private schools they are - they attract better qualified teachers who teach in more depth with more explanation, and due to the small class sizes students can always get their questions answered.

    Those private school children would be motivated by their parents irrespective of their education.

    Private school standards are certainly better than state schools ("public schools" are something different ) - what you're comparing is an okay private school to a good grammar school. Grammars only exist in certain areas, and only for the best students.
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    (Original post by Dragonfly07)
    Some points to compliment the OP:

    I think that most privately schooled children aren't taught the school material better, but rather they get taught the best techniques to pass exams and to do well in interviews (been to a private school for only a year and the difference is immense. Lots of mock interviews).

    Also in general, privately schooled children are more motivated than public school children simply because their parents push them harder/they have more expectations from them.

    In general, I don't think that private school standards are any better than public school standards.
    Even if they aren't, why should they be abolished? Parents can choose to send their children there - just because it might be a waste doesn't mean it should be made illegal.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Simply removing academies would not make all schools the same - government cannot control education so closely that all schools will be the same - were they all the same before academisation? Furthermore, the effects of national policies are limited in their scope. Most of the changes at a national level have a fairly minimal effect on the actual quality of education, although I suppose that's more in the nature of the policies generally implemented. The greatest improvements a school can have are funding and support - both of which parents give locally, rather than nationally.
    You can't look at previous examples of policy implementation, as they never had the support of the rich and influential private school parents If the entire country all had the same education, suddenly all of those private school parents would become extremely interested in educational policy.

    National policies which have a huge impact on education are modular -> linear, and also adjustment to the hiring process, such that teaching becomes a more lucrative career and attracts better graduates.

    It's true, though, most changes come from local parents calling for minor changes.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Even if they aren't, why should they be abolished? Parents can choose to send their children there - just because it might be a waste doesn't mean it should be made illegal.
    Note what I said on the last page:

    The argument can be turned on its head - many say that it's outrageous that parents have the power to ruin a child's life by sending them to an extreme religious boarding school, or by homeschooling them, for example.
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    (Original post by The Polymath)
    You can't look at previous examples of policy implementation, as they never had the support of the rich and influential private school parents If the entire country all had the same education, suddenly all of those private school parents would become extremely interested in educational policy.

    National policies which have a huge impact on education are modular -> linear, and also adjustment to the hiring process, such that teaching becomes a more lucrative career and attracts better graduates.

    It's true, though, most changes come from local parents calling for minor changes.
    I'm still skeptical that their pressure would make a huge change. There are already plenty of people attempting to improve education who don't need pushy parents to motivate them. The reason schools aren't improving significantly/at all is because it is such a difficult task to improve them.
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    Personally, I think it's unfair that somebody from a state school does the same qualifications as somebody from private school.

    Going to a private school puts you at an unfair advantage. But I do not think they should be banned.

    Instead, I feel that the GCSEs, IB and Alevels franchise should ONLY be available for those in a state run school/college. Private schools should then get their own qualifications e.g PCSEs and Plevels!

    This will then make the comparison for Universities much easier. As maybe Oxford would require an A at Plevel (due to the unfair advantage). Whereas they'd accept somebody with a B at Alevels from a state school.

    This will take the unfairness away. And if people from the private sector feel that it is unfair, well you can enter the state system and see how clever you are without the small class sizes and extra tuition.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    Personally, I think it's unfair that somebody from a state school does the same qualifications as somebody from private school.

    Going to a private school puts you at an unfair advantage. But I do not think they should be banned.

    Instead, I feel that the GCSEs, IB and Alevels franchise should ONLY be available for those in a state run school/college. Private schools should then get their own qualifications e.g PCSEs and Plevels!

    This will then make the comparison for Universities much easier. As maybe Oxford would require an A at Plevel (due to the unfair advantage). Whereas they'd accept somebody with a B at Alevels from a state school.

    This will take the unfairness away. And if people from the private sector feel that it is unfair, well you can enter the state system and see how clever you are without the small class sizes and extra tuition.
    Firstly, many private schools are turning away from A-Levels towards the IB/Pre-U.

    Secondly, the idea of qualifications is that they show you have reached a certain level of knowledge or aptitude, therefore they are standard across all ages/genders/races/schools. If you think private schoolers have some unfair advantage or way to play the system, then the exams are poorly designed.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    I'm still skeptical that their pressure would make a huge change. There are already plenty of people attempting to improve education who don't need pushy parents to motivate them. The reason schools aren't improving significantly/at all is because it is such a difficult task to improve them.
    Private schools being banned would see the richest and most influential 7% of parents taking a new interest in education. That's a significant boost, and given their concentration in constituencies, could swiftly see seats changing - somewhere like Windsor/Eton would be filled with rich parents looking to vote for someone who can improve their child's education.

    (Original post by UnderPost)
    Personally, I think it's unfair that somebody from a state school does the same qualifications as somebody from private school.

    Going to a private school puts you at an unfair advantage. But I do not think they should be banned.

    Instead, I feel that the GCSEs, IB and Alevels franchise should ONLY be available for those in a state run school/college. Private schools should then get their own qualifications e.g PCSEs and Plevels!

    This will then make the comparison for Universities much easier. As maybe Oxford would require an A at Plevel (due to the unfair advantage). Whereas they'd accept somebody with a B at Alevels from a state school.

    This will take the unfairness away. And if people from the private sector feel that it is unfair, well you can enter the state system and see how clever you are without the small class sizes and extra tuition.
    Universities would simply favour people doing P-level, which would clearly be a more rigorous course.
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    Some might argue that those who can afford to pay to educate their children are morally obliged to do so, thus easing pressure on the state sector schools (in which they are paying for a place they are not using) Those people might also argue that the same is true of Healthcare and Dental care....some might be annoyed by having to wait for a dentist appointment behind five people who can afford to go and pay a private dentist.
    You cannot stop people charging to provide a service, the aforementioned dentist might earn a shed load of money, but then he pays taxes on that, and contributes to the economy through his spending.
    Its not immoral to earn money and spend it on what you choose to! Who wants to be held back because it makes someone else feel better?!
    Let's not pretend that all the discrimination goes one way, and lets not pretend that bleating about the disadvantages of a state education isn't sometimes an excuse from those who didn't get off their arse and do some work!
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    (Original post by The Polymath)
    Note what I said on the last page:

    The argument can be turned on its head - many say that it's outrageous that parents have the power to ruin a child's life by sending them to an extreme religious boarding school, or by homeschooling them, for example.
    Who are we to decide which ideologies we teach our children? Many would say that it's unfair to send your children to a state school where they experience a sub-standard education and are brainwashed by left-wing, liberal teachers. How to we decide what to teach? Furthermore, I believe there is an extent to which private schools can completely teach their own ideologies - they cannot preach hate.
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    banning private schools would never work. and as someone said above, private school kids are generally just more motivated by, yes, pushy parents who are paying money for their child to do well. and especially in sixth form I don't think private schools get any better teaching, I go to a private school and have 14 people in my A2 chemistry class, whereas in a state school there's only likely to be 5 or 6 (just average from friends at state schools). Work hard and you can do well wherever you go (my opinion)
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    (Original post by The Polymath)
    Private schools being banned would see the richest and most influential 7% of parents taking a new interest in education. That's a significant boost, and given their concentration in constituencies, could swiftly see seats changing - somewhere like Windsor/Eton would be filled with rich parents looking to vote for someone who can improve their child's education.
    A) Windsor will never vote for anything except the Tories
    B) If a few parents being interested in education was all it took to improve education, we'd have solved all our problems. Furthermore, what if these rich individuals vote for someone they think will improve education, but instead causes more problems (as many would argue Gove's populist reforms are).
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    I'd also like to see reforms about the charitable status of private schools (thus they get tax breaks).
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    (Original post by TheGuy117)
    Firstly, I realise that this thread has been done before, however I believe the Op was incoherent in his argument and didn't even put a reasonably strong argument forward, instead, he just rambled. So here is my concise argument, with just 2 points.

    Equality
    Quite an obvious place to start is the argument that if by removing wealth as a factor of a child's academic success, the educational system and future generations of society as a whole would be a lot more equal.
    Just look at where the top universities are in terms of proportions of students from private school - at the top end.
    http://www.studentbeans.com/student-...eague2169.html
    Now look at this, studies have found there is a bias in the selection process.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/student...s-8549126.html

    More effective
    Finland went from having a mediocre education system, to the best in the world, how? They banned private schools and made education equal for all
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...d-2289083.html
    If you look at other top countries for education, you will find they all have a similar ethos, while "Great" Britain sits in a mediocre 31st place.

    I truly believe an education system where equality rules would greatly improve standards for the whole country. Since this is an "Educational Debate", what are your thoughts on this?
    There's no way I would have coped in a state school. I have Aspergers, and when I was younger I was pretty difficult to deal with. I wouldn't be the type to throw chairs at teachers, but I'd just quietly go into a corner and burst into tears over the littlest thing. I couldn't handle supply teachers that I didn't know(which are pretty big in state schools) and my parents knew that I'd probably be bullied. Also, I got placed in a secondary school that was 45 minutes away on the bus... which would have undoubtedly caused me to have a huge nervous break. My parents tried to get support from the council but they refused, saying I wasn't failing and so they weren't obliged to act.

    Luckily, because my mum's an incredible being, and because I've got one of them "Aspergic Brains" that can absorb information very easily... I fluked a HUGE bursary and scholarship at my local private school. 6 years later, with the support of a brilliant school with resources a state school can only dream about as well as councilling, I'm a pretty 'normal' child. I got 9 A*s at GCSE, which my parents know would never have happened if I'd gone to a state school, and I've got aspirations of going to Cambridge or Durham university (a far cry from having a panic attack on the bus to school).

    Unsurprisingly, I'm hugely against banning state schools... but not because I'm some raving Tory (i'm actually quite left wing). But because they often help people who are let down by state schools, whether it be through bursaries and scholarships or, in more exceptional circumstances, a story like mine. This is the reason why private schools are great.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    One issue with this is that many towns need a local school due to being fairly isolated. If their failing school was shut down, then children might have a commute to school of one hour, which seems excessive and is disruptive to home life.
    I do take your point, but with the limited resources at their disposal, schools would position themselves best to maximise the number of students able to attend - It sucks for the people that live in the middle of no-where, but it is the best allocation of resources. Again improving efficiency - as fixed costs are lower per student and therefore the school is able to employ a greater number of staff or buy better teaching resources to help improve the standard of teaching?
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    (Original post by JenniS)
    banning private schools would never work. and as someone said above, private school kids are generally just more motivated by, yes, pushy parents who are paying money for their child to do well. and especially in sixth form I don't think private schools get any better teaching, I go to a private school and have 14 people in my A2 chemistry class, whereas in a state school there's only likely to be 5 or 6 (just average from friends at state schools). Work hard and you can do well wherever you go (my opinion)
    You've contradicted yourself:

    "I don't think private schools get any better teaching"
    and
    "pushy parents who are paying money for their child to do well"
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    I'd also like to see reforms about the charitable status of private schools (thus they get tax breaks).
    That's ridiculous. If you take away their charitable status, you take away any incentive they have to be charitable. You are aware that simply being a private school does not make you a charity - you now have to prove you are helping society.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    That's ridiculous. If you take away their charitable status, you take away any incentive they have to be charitable. You are aware that simply being a private school does not make you a charity - you now have to prove you are helping society.
    And that's the reforms I'd like to question. I question how allowing a local comp to use your cricket ground every 2 weeks allow you to be a charity. I question how allowing 5% of the school to be on scholarships suddenly makes you charitable.

    If these private schools were genuinely be charitable then I think they should have charitable status, but I question this status on some of them.

    Reforms are starting to happen in Scotland on this.
    Wales wanted its own charity commission to help tackle this but weren't allowed. So she, like England must wait for reforms.... yet again!
 
 
 
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