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  • View Poll Results: greatest player?
    Zidane
    12
    15.79%
    Maradona
    5
    6.58%
    Pele
    12
    15.79%
    Fat Ronaldo
    13
    17.11%
    Messi
    27
    35.53%
    C.Ronaldo
    7
    9.21%

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    (Original post by Jordan_1)
    Oh and seeing as this thread is pretty much all about the best player in the world (messi)

    Here's one of his greatest goals 6 years ago today.

    here's the thing.. messi is doing that against crappy teams like getafe, zidane bangs in volleys like this on his weaker foot in champions league finals. which is more impressive?

    another "weaker" foot volley from zidane, 40 yards out:



    chelsea, madrid and milan (1st leg) showed us that messi can be stopped - stick a couple good defenders around him and he goes invisible. whereas with ZZ they tried everything and found no answer (as makelele says - "there is no secret to zizou, you cannot stop him")


    can't wait for the next el classico so i can see ramos and pepe bully this midget. honestly, i've seen them do things to him that get warrant GBH. 2-3 years ago i would see messi skip past players like it's nothing (no matter what team) but now he's just scoring little 3 yard tap-ins beautifully set up for him against poor teams thinking he's good because his goal/assist stats have improved, rofl. messi isn't even as good as iniesta what makes u think he can be compared to the great zinedine
    (Original post by Jordan_1)
    Zidane could only dream of scoring goals like that
    zidane's top 10 goals > messi's top 10 goals (not only in terms of aesthetics but also importance)

    fool.

    edit: malevolent stop rigging the poll, ur only embarrassing urself. mug
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    (Original post by TheFlyinBallsack)
    here's the thing.. messi is doing that against crappy teams like getafe, zidane bangs in volleys like this on his weaker foot in champions league finals. which is more impressive?

    another "weaker" foot volley from zidane, 40 yards out:



    chelsea, madrid and milan (1st leg) showed us that messi can be stopped - stick a couple good defenders around him and he goes invisible. whereas with ZZ they tried everything and found no answer (as makelele says - "there is no secret to zizou, you cannot stop him")


    can't wait for the next el classico so i can see ramos and pepe bully this midget. honestly, i've seen them do things to him that get warrant GBH. 2-3 years ago i would see messi skip past players like it's nothing (no matter what team) but now he's just scoring little 3 yard tap-ins beautifully set up for him against poor teams thinking he's good because his goal/assist stats have improved, rofl. messi isn't even as good as iniesta what makes u think he can be compared to the great zinedine
    zidane's top 10 goals > messi's top 10 goals (not only in terms of aesthetics but also importance)

    fool.

    edit: malevolent stop rigging the poll, ur only embarrassing urself. mug
    Pretty obsessed with me aren't you. You can ask a mod i haven't voted genius.
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    i can see who's voted (i created the poll), dont play dumb. ur looking to get ur neck broken very soon
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    My hero, David Beckham.
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    beckham on zidane:


    there's another video where he says "when i played against him i didn't wanna go near him, because i knew what he could do with a football and didn't want to be embarrassed"

    next..
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    (Original post by TheFlyinBallsack)
    i can see who's voted (i created the poll), dont play dumb. ur looking to get ur neck broken very soon
    You're pretty funny and stupid at the same time.
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    (Original post by anonstudent1)
    Zidane's a midfielder(ish). In fact all of them players with the exception of fat Ronaldo are players who were (are) given a free role upfront.

    Imo its right that defenders aren't included in the list of the greatest ever players. To play upfront and be great you have to have something that makes you stand out, whether its great pace, technique, trickery, clinical finishing or more usually a combination.
    Im not saying defenders don't have to have great attributes too, Im just saying Strikers have it more difficult. A lot of defending is down to consistently doing basic skills (for want of a better word, i still realise a lot of what they do is difficult i.e reading the game, intelligence etc).

    In short I think its harder to create then it is to destroy, thats why the strikers, and creative/goal scoring mids get the big bucks and more praise.

    To put in another way if I had to make a choice in my team of eleven, to swap an average defender for a world class defender, or change an average attacker for a word class attacker, I would choose a world class attacker every single time.
    Using Aston Villa for an example, If I had to choose between changing Richard Dunne (CB) for Thiago Silva(insert any other world class (CB) here), or changing Agbonlahor for Lionel Messi (insert any other world class forward here) I would choose having Messi every single time.
    I agree. You don't NEED a world class defender to create a world class defence, as defending is done as a team hence why there is normally 4 at the back rather than 4 up front. Whereas, although attacking as a team will of course help, world class attackers such as those mentioned can do it themselves.
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    (Original post by TheFlyinBallsack)
    who is the greatest player of all time? no arguing, just vote

    (only included c.ronaldo because i had to include messi due to the # of fanboys on this site)
    How many votes till it's settled?
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Stick to science Galileo your drunk...
    Do you even own a season ticket? Talking like you watch La Liga.
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    (Original post by Galileo Galilei)
    Do you even own a season ticket? Talking like you watch La Liga.
    Considering I go back to Spain every year to watch 3-4 games is much more effort then you make.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Considering I go back to Spain every year to watch 3-4 games is much more effort then you make.
    Do not talk about football, Messi cannot play outside Barca. Ronaldo has played in both England and Spain.
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    (Original post by pane123)
    The only person who still thinks Pele is the greatest of all time is Pele.
    Him and a large amount of experts who have actually seen him play, theres no doubt if you asked a large number of experts who they think the best of all time is pele would be in the top 3.

    Also, why do so many people belittle the world cup just because its a tournament messi has never succeeded in? it just points to pathetic fanboyism, you could ask almost any footballer what one trophy they'd love to win the most would say the world cup. Look at how Iniesta is revered by every spaniard around including even the most passionate madridstas, winning the world cup creates a legacy that no champions league or league title can come close to.
    Look at how Zidane makes it into these polls whilst the likes of zico, platini, di stefano, cruyff all miss out, if Zico or Cruyff had won the world cups they come close to they'd certainly be in these polls, if platini and zidane swapped birthdates ive little doubt platini would be easily recognised as the better of the two, Di Stefano is the greatest club player of all time being the best player of a team that won 5 European Cups in a row, he's talked about in the same category as pele though because of his lack of success for spain/argentina.
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    (Original post by xxbradkennedyxx)
    Him and a large amount of experts who have actually seen him play, theres no doubt if you asked a large number of experts who they think the best of all time is pele would be in the top 3.

    Also, why do so many people belittle the world cup just because its a tournament messi has never succeeded in? it just points to pathetic fanboyism, you could ask almost any footballer what one trophy they'd love to win the most would say the world cup. Look at how Iniesta is revered by every spaniard around including even the most passionate madridstas, winning the world cup creates a legacy that no champions league or league title can come close to.
    Look at how Zidane makes it into these polls whilst the likes of zico, platini, di stefano, cruyff all miss out, if Zico or Cruyff had won the world cups they come close to they'd certainly be in these polls, if platini and zidane swapped birthdates ive little doubt platini would be easily recognised as the better of the two, Di Stefano is the greatest club player of all time being the best player of a team that won 5 European Cups in a row, he's talked about in the same category as pele though because of his lack of success for spain/argentina.
    Nobody is belittling the World Cup, I am simply saying that I now believe the Champions League to be superior because almost all the best players in the world play in it.

    Also, you blur the lines when you bring in legacy. What does legacy have to do with being the best at playing football?

    All the players you mentioned from 20+ years ago were no doubt supremely talented, but are they the best ever? No.

    Football has changed way too much for these guys to be considered as the best ever and there are valid reasons as to why.

    For a start, they were playing in a much smaller pool of talent. How many African players, for example, featured in the sides these guys played in? I don't know exact numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer were zero in many cases. Clubs can now afford to scout everywhere in the world, increasing competition and making it harder to be the best.

    Furthermore, just look at things like advances in training and tactics. Top players nowadays have had access to the best training facilities in the world from a young age and will be some of the fittest people on Earth. Again, this makes it all the harder to rise to the top and be the best.

    OK, so you could argue that Platini et al didn't have access to such facilities, but I would ask "so what?". Deciding who the best player of all time is should ignore these things, because we are talking about the best of all time, not just a particular period of time.

    Let's assume Usain Bolt was an extremely boring chap, but still had the same sprinting ability and held the various records he does. Would you claim sprinters from days gone by are the best of all time just because they had more charisma or weren't able train like Bolt does? I doubt it.

    Now, taking all these factors into consideration, let's think about Messi. For me, he is a joy to watch, and is without question the best player I have ever seen. However, we can ignore that, as that's just my opinion.

    The fact is that the guy was signed by Barcelona at the age of 13 for a reason - they saw something special. Not many players would have been moved half way across the world at that age, regardless of how talented they were.

    Since then, the guy has broken record after record playing in competitions against teams that have spent vast sums of money to be in these competitions. He has also been voted best player in the world 4 years in a row - a feat nobody else in the history of football has managed.

    So, you are entitled to think someone like Zidane is the best player of all time, but don't dismiss people who disagree with you as "Messi fanboys". I don't even know what this word means, exactly, but to suggest people like Messi without any real basis, is, quite frankly, absurd.
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    Surely it can only be the Kaiser himself.
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    For me theres no one I enjoyed watching more than Zidane.

    I also don't think there has ever been someone who made playing football look so easy.
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    omg..



    messi can't compete with this, u are witnessing the god of football right here
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    (Original post by pane123)
    Nobody is belittling the World Cup, I am simply saying that I now believe the Champions League to be superior because almost all the best players in the world play in it.
    Its a higher quality yes, but the euro's is also arguably a higher quality than the world cup but it doesn't make it a better tournament, at club level teams are built around the greatest players, all of pele, maradona, cruyff, messi, di stefano etc had teams built around them, theyre in their comfort zone, at international level there's no such thing, some players, like pele or zidane, get lucky and happen to be in almost a perfect team for them, but theres no doubting that it's 'harder' to succeed at international level for top players, and it's why in my mind maradona and pele are ahead of messi until he accomplishes something at a Copa or World cup.
    Also, you blur the lines when you bring in legacy. What does legacy have to do with being the best at playing football?
    Nothing, but it has everything to do with being able to be labled the greatest of all time, there are many players who had great but short peaks, Ronaldinho etc, or players that perhaps never accoomplished enough despite their ability, like george best. They don't get talked about in the same manner of Pele, Maradona because they didn't win enough things and winning things creates legacy. We can talk about Iniesta in the same sentence as Laudrup and Zidane but had robben taken any of his chances in the WC final or had Mandzukic scored that header in the euros group stage and knocked spain out would we then be mentioning his name amongst the greats?
    All the players you mentioned from 20+ years ago were no doubt supremely talented, but are they the best ever? No.

    Football has changed way too much for these guys to be considered as the best ever and there are valid reasons as to why.
    Yes football has changed but it doesn't mean that everybody from 20+ years ago should be ignored, football changing works both ways.

    Furthermore, just look at things like advances in training and tactics. Top players nowadays have had access to the best training facilities in the world from a young age and will be some of the fittest people on Earth. Again, this makes it all the harder to rise to the top and be the best.

    OK, so you could argue that Platini et al didn't have access to such facilities, but I would ask "so what?". Deciding who the best player of all time is should ignore these things, because we are talking about the best of all time, not just a particular period of time.
    Im not really getting your point here, so what if players are fitter these days? are we simply to write off everything before the modern era because science and technology has increased? are we simply to say in 100 years time there'll be players much fitter than players of today and that todays players wouldnt be able to cope so theyre insignificant? thats a rather dull way of looking at things, do you think the top scientists of today are better scientists than galileo or newton?

    Hell whats to say pele couldnt cope with the modern game anyway? he was as strong as an ox, had to play in an era where some challenges bordered on assault and coped fine, he could run 100m in just over 10 seconds, possessed a great leap, he'd cope fine in the modern era even without having access to modern facilities.

    Players like Messi wouldnt have even made it as a footballer during the 50's, are we supposed to ignore how modern players would cope in the older days and just focus on how older players would directly struggle in a modern environment? because thats pretty bias tbh.

    Let's assume Usain Bolt was an extremely boring chap, but still had the same sprinting ability and held the various records he does. Would you claim sprinters from days gone by are the best of all time just because they had more charisma or weren't able train like Bolt does? I doubt it.
    Football isn't as arbitrary as sprinting, you cant measure how intelligent a footballer is or how good he can dribble or pass, so its a completely irrelevent argument.

    Do we consider modern boxers as better than Ali or SRR?
    Now, taking all these factors into consideration, let's think about Messi. For me, he is a joy to watch, and is without question the best player I have ever seen. However, we can ignore that, as that's just my opinion.

    The fact is that the guy was signed by Barcelona at the age of 13 for a reason - they saw something special. Not many players would have been moved half way across the world at that age, regardless of how talented they were.

    Since then, the guy has broken record after record playing in competitions against teams that have spent vast sums of money to be in these competitions. He has also been voted best player in the world 4 years in a row - a feat nobody else in the history of football has managed.
    Pele and Maradona would easily have won 4+ each had they been legible for the ballon d'or. Lesser greats like Platini managed 3.

    So, you are entitled to think someone like Zidane is the best player of all time, but don't dismiss people who disagree with you as "Messi fanboys". I don't even know what this word means, exactly, but to suggest people like Messi without any real basis, is, quite frankly, absurd.
    Believe me I don't think zidane is the best of all time, nowhere near in fact. And I've never dismissed anyone who thinks messi is the best of all time as a fanboy, stop making things up, I said anyone who belittles the world cup is doing so simply because it challenges the idea that messi is the best of all time, ergo, they're fanboys. And do you not think I like messi? I'm a follower of Barcelona and watch almost every game argentina play, Im a huge fan of him, I just simply think he needs to create an impact on the international stage (which I certainly hope he does, the stage for 2014 is set for him) before I'll put him ahead of either Pele or Maradona.
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    (Original post by TheFlyinBallsack)
    omg..



    messi can't compete with this, u are witnessing the god of football right here
    Dumb ****
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    Only in a forum like this would either of the two Ronaldos be on a "Best Player of All Time" poll and nobody from before the mid-90s would make it apart from the two most notable ones.
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    Zidane and C Ronaldo both better than Messi for me. Look at who he plays with.
 
 
 
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