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    (Original post by Rooster523)
    I know you didn't say it directly, but you seem to hold the fact he's had a job in high esteem.

    He wants to increase the defence budget by 40%. If he finds room in the budget for that he probably is a God.
    Well I do value having a job and working previously, with a good understanding of what normal working people care about, to be something of a good characteristic of a politician. Makes him more electable. But that's just me.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Well I do value having a job and working previously, with a good understanding of what normal working people care about, to be something of a good characteristic of a politician. Makes him more electable. But that's just me.
    Cameron and Clegg both had jobs outside of politics. I fail to see how Farage is above these two.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Well I do value having a job and working previously, with a good understanding of what normal working people care about, to be something of a good characteristic of a politician. Makes him more electable. But that's just me.
    Investment banking's not really normal.
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    (Original post by Rooster523)
    Cameron and Clegg both had jobs outside of politics. I fail to see how Farage is above these two.
    Cameron? Poncing around the world with Michael Green? That job?
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    We have the first past the post system in local and national elections. UKIP will gain very few council seats and none in the next general election I expect.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Cameron? Poncing around the world with Michael Green? That job?
    No, where he was Carlton's director of corporate affairs for 7 years.
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    (Original post by Rooster523)
    No, where he was Carlton's director of corporate affairs for 7 years.
    Exactly, prancing around the world as head of corporate communications, with the firm's boss Michael Green. It was a non job of being Michael Green's mouthpiece.

    "To describe Cameron's approach to corporate PR as unhelpful and evasive overstates by a widish margin the clarity and plain-speaking that he brought to the job of being Michael Green's mouthpiece, In my experience, Cameron never gave a straight answer when dissemblance was a plausible alternative, which probably makes him perfectly suited for the role he now seeks: the next Tony Blair," - Jeff Randall
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    If the EU is killing our trade then why does Germany have 12% of its exports go to the BRIC's and 5% for the UK. Why does France out-trade us in Brazil, why (at least in 2011) did the Netherlands beat us in Nigeria and India.

    If countries like the Netherlands can beat us then why must Euro-skeptics play a blame game rather than accept that the UK trades inefficiently and seek to improve that because once the UK and EU both have trade treaties we could well the situation playing out similarly.

    On the other foot, if the EU is hampering us then why are we recording double digit trade growth. Is it not truer to say that before the recession there was simply an inadequate focus on international trade.

    One of the main reasons is that the UK does not link aid to trade as other EU nations do, as we retain the noble but not particularly practical idea that aid should be about helping others, rather than ourselves.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Obviously...:rolleyes: Ignorant child. Do you realise that a 40% increase would bring jobs and economic growth, for example in defense manufacturing? Yes, obviously hasn't a clue what he's doing at all!...:rolleyes:
    For a sector we don't need, we need to be reducing our conventional forces not causing a 40% budget rise.

    So long as we have trident we don't need a large capable force. And economic stimulation can be achieved through other industries which actually need the help.
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    It's not much of a comparison - I doubt old Lib Dem voters are going to be converted to UKIP voters in the space of one parliament!

    The Lib Dems will have naturally lost voters through things like their tuition fee pledge which was in the coalition agreement then voted against not long after.

    Similarly a lot of voters will be turning to UKIP for want of something more radical than the main three and something less controversial than the BNP.

    There's far too many variables to suggest some sort of correlation between loss of Lib Dem votes and gain of UKIP support, but I do foresee smaller parties gaining a lot out of the next general election; whether their campaign strategies can convert this into individual seats is another matter.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    One of the main reasons is that the UK does not link aid to trade as other EU nations do, as we retain the noble but not particularly practical idea that aid should be about helping others, rather than ourselves.
    Well then, it's domestic policy that is failing us then.

    I'm not saying that EU regulation does not limit us in some way but until we are the number 1 exporter (as a percentage of GDP in Europe) i just don't think you can cloud over any domestic failure and blame it on the EU. This of course excludes the fact that most important countries are at the very least in negotiations with the EU for a trade agreement.
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    (Original post by DarkWhite)

    Similarly a lot of voters will be turning to UKIP for want of something more radical than the main three and something less controversial than the BNP.
    Stick someone like Godfrey Bloom on Question Time and that ought to evaporate that myth.
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    It's not a surprise, the Lib Dems are finished as a political force, UKIP are now polling what a typical third party would.
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    For a sector we don't need, we need to be reducing our conventional forces not causing a 40% budget rise.

    So long as we have trident we don't need a large capable force. And economic stimulation can be achieved through other industries which actually need the help.
    Hahahaa no we don't! We need to have a conventional force, along with the ability to fight unconventionaly (such as in Afghanistan). We still need the ability to project power if we are under threat, cutting it any lower than what is outlined in the army 2020 is suicidal. Even at full 2020 strength we can only sustain operations like Iraq for 6 months (Doesn't matter whether you agree with the war, it's the prinicple) It is better to have one and not need it, than need it and not have it. Just like Trident. In terms of military responses once the decision was made, trident would not of been an option, but invasion of course was. You're not gonna tell me that trident was an real option now are you? If I knew they were increasing the armed forces to 2001 levels, I'd happily pay an increase in tax!

    We are not a weak nation, we are a major world power, we need to live up to our responsibilities.
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    Stick someone like Godfrey Bloom on Question Time and that ought to evaporate that myth.
    Well, quite. But by public perception generally at the moment, there's a lot of people changing support for that reason.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)

    We are not a weak nation, we are a major world power, we need to live up to our responsibilities.
    Yes, I'm fairly certain thats what Antony Eden thought before embarking on Suez.

    We don't need a large conventional force anymore. We're better of adopting a more Scandinavian Model. We didn't need to get involved in Iraq or Afghanistan
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    Yes, I'm fairly certain thats what Antony Eden thought before embarking on Suez.

    We don't need a large conventional force anymore. We're better of adopting a more Scandinavian Model. We didn't need to get involved in Iraq or Afghanistan
    I don't mean a huge force as in the the same size as the South Korean army which has an actual invasion threat from the North, but we do need to increase manpower by at least above 100,000 regulars.

    If we are going to be the USA's puppy, following them around in every war, we should expect/ realise the need for a larg(er) armed forces. Now if you were to say we need to keep trident, but leave NATO and tone down our alliance with the USA then I would be supportive of the Army 2020, but we aren't and won't. As we do need a convetional force that can sustain operations such as Iraq for more than 6 months, (which is not going to happen under the army 2020) I disagree with you and believe we should expand our army due to our current and future commitments given the fact we our pretty much guranteed to join the USA in war(s).
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Given the fact we our pretty much guranteed to join the USA in war(s).
    After Iraq, I don't think another Prime Minister will willingly go straight into another War like that with American unless the causes were just.
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    (Original post by TritonSails)
    Their proposal to freeze permanent immigration for five years while we 'regain control of our borders' (whatever that is supposed to mean) would be disastrous.
    Care to explain how stopping admitting every Romanian woman with 5 kids would be disastrous?
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    After Iraq, I don't think another Prime Minister will willingly go straight into another War like that with American unless the causes were just.
    We can all hope
 
 
 
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