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Isn't it about time that attitudes changed towards rape? watch

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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Women can be convicted of rape...


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    A quick search revealed that the definition of technical rape is penetration with a penis without consent (this is UK law). Granted, the source is Wikipedia but I also remember my law friend telling me about it
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    The law states that it can only be rape if a penis penetrates another person without their consent. That means a man or woman can be a victim of rape but only a man can be a rapist, due to woman not having penises obviously.

    If a man or woman penetrates someone with an object or other body part, that's classed as sexual assault by law.

    That's the law, written and enforced by men - yes, MEN with penises. Not some sort of feminist conspiracy. A lot of women would agree with changing the law, I certainly have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with is every sensible debate on gender issues being turned into a women/feminist bashing session.

    Any reliable stats show that women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault by men and not the other way around. It's become so well studied that it's common knowledge. So whenever threads like these pop up and I see posters claiming otherwise and pulling out dubious stats from dubious sources, I become automatically wary and cynical.


    Honestly, any sort of crime against anyone is vile. I am disgusted by it all and would genuinely like to see realistic and sensible action to prevent these crimes and punish the perpetrators. Rapists are the lowest of the low. So I'd like ask an open question - what are your motives? Do you genuinely care about male sexual assault victims? Or do you just want to put women down? I ask this because I have seen a lot, and I mean a lot, of misogynist threads and comments on this forum often disguised as something else. Just wondering if this thread of another one of those.

    I class myself as a feminist but I don't agree with this. Feminism means equality for men and women, that doesn't mean hating on men and blaming them for things like rape. Which is how men will inevitably feel because there is so much hatred directed from feminists at men on this issue, because of the whole "men are the rapists don't blame us if we're dressed so you can see what we had for dinner". While men should be taught that it's not ok to rape women even if they are dressed in little clothing, it should be part of EVERYONE being taught that's it not ok to rape anyone, ever, no matter what they're wearing or how 'up for it' you think they are. It can come across very aggressively from a feminist point of view which I think makes people take it less seriously and just label it as man-hating.

    Plus even if the statistics do swing that way, I bet a lot of men who are raped don't come forward because of the shame of being raped by a woman. I wouldn't expect such statistics to be very reliable, it's the same as how men often don't report domestic abuse from a woman.
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    yes if the woman penetrates the penis or gives oral without consent then that should be rape too. although most men would be able to push women off them if they dont like it, so this in reality would hardly happen hence people would natural assume penis penetration would most likely be done because the man instigates it.

    how many men have been raped by women anyway? is there any statistic on this or any stories?
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Haha how can you say I'm incorrect by coming up with stats from a different country and which are also unrelated to what I said; I believe I used the word rape, not sexual assault


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    my apologies, i wasn't clear enough on my original post, what i meant to communicate by using the American statistics (a place in which many states use the penetration only law) is just to demonstrate a trend in countries which use the 'penetration only' rape law, when you take forced envelopment into account too, you'd find the rates even out.

    Moreover, Sexual assault and rape are slightly different, however i was simply showing you the stats just to show that women can be as sexually violent as men. The laws in those countries also show the attitude that men are 'sex fiends'.

    moreover the original post may have made reference towards the UK version of the law, but it also refers towards other countries which use the same sort of law as of course. Therefore the original post wasn't restricted to the UK onlu
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    I class myself as a feminist but I don't agree with this. Feminism means equality for men and women, that doesn't mean hating on men and blaming them for things like rape. Which is how men will inevitably feel because there is so much hatred directed from feminists at men on this issue, because of the whole "men are the rapists don't blame us if we're dressed so you can see what we had for dinner". While men should be taught that it's not ok to rape women even if they are dressed in little clothing, it should be part of EVERYONE being taught that's it not ok to rape anyone, ever, no matter what they're wearing or how 'up for it' you think they are. It can come across very aggressively from a feminist point of view which I think makes people take it less seriously and just label it as man-hating.

    Plus even if the statistics do swing that way, I bet a lot of men who are raped don't come forward because of the shame of being raped by a woman. I wouldn't expect such statistics to be very reliable, it's the same as how men often don't report domestic abuse from a woman.
    Which part of my post was "man-hating"? And where did I blame all men for rape? :confused:

    It was more of a comment for the inevitable misogynists who always seem to appear on threads like these. I'm not blaming men for rape - if you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I blame rapists for rape. And equally, I'd like for people not to blame women for rape too.
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    Which part of my post was "man-hating"? And where did I blame all men for rape? :confused:

    It was more of a comment for the inevitable misogynists who always seem to appear on threads like these. I'm not blaming men for rape - if you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I blame rapists for rape. And equally, I'd like for people not to blame women for rape too.
    I'm not saying you were man-hating, but I'm saying a lot of 'feminists' appear that way. So inevitably when the issue arises, a lot of people will say oh it's just those feminists. Feminism is about equality but some people take it as an excuse to hate men and that can come across in the teaching rapists not to be rapists thing because those feminists often blame the men. I didn't mean you. I'm just saying I think it's understandable for people to moan about feminists on this issue because they do appear to hate men a lot of the time when expressing their views. I'm not denying there are misogynists but equally there are people who hate men and blame them for rape under the guise of 'feminism'.
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    (Original post by redpanda41)
    In many states a rapist has the legal right to claim access to a child created from the rape. It works both ways. Though you are right, male rape is underreported and not taken seriously enough.
    oh, i didn't say you're wrong. I always realise that in life, things always tend to go both ways. I really ought to write that down every time
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    A quick search revealed that the definition of technical rape is penetration with a penis without consent (this is UK law). Granted, the source is Wikipedia but I also remember my law friend telling me about it
    A quick google search will also show you that women have been convicted of rape.

    (Original post by bottled)
    my apologies, i wasn't clear enough on my original post, what i meant to communicate by using the American statistics (a place in which many states use the penetration only law) is just to demonstrate a trend in countries which use the 'penetration only' rape law, when you take forced envelopment into account too, you'd find the rates even out.

    Moreover, Sexual assault and rape are slightly different, however i was simply showing you the stats just to show that women can be as sexually violent as men. The laws in those countries also show the attitude that men are 'sex fiends'.

    moreover the original post may have made reference towards the UK version of the law, but it also refers towards other countries which use the same sort of law as of course. Therefore the original post wasn't restricted to the UK onlu
    I never said women can't be as sexually violent, I was pointing out a media portrayal of rape, it's seen as a crime committed by men because the statistics state that men are far far more likely to commit rape.

    Well considering we live in England I would imagine it's obvious that's where I'd be commenting on. Could you please show me where I made reference to other countries because I'm quite sure I didn't.




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    (Original post by slade p)
    yes if the woman penetrates the penis or gives oral without consent then that should be rape too. although most men would be able to push women off them if they dont like it, so this in reality would hardly happen hence people would natural assume penis penetration would most likely be done because the man instigates it.

    how many men have been raped by women anyway? is there any statistic on this or any stories?
    I don't think a women's vagina can penetrate a penis lol, would have to be reworded. Also hopefully someone can provide some stats to your question.
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    The law states that it can only be rape if a penis penetrates another person without their consent. That means a man or woman can be a victim of rape but only a man can be a rapist, due to woman not having penises obviously.

    If a man or woman penetrates someone with an object or other body part, that's classed as sexual assault by law.

    That's the law, written and enforced by men - yes, MEN with penises. Not some sort of feminist conspiracy. A lot of women would agree with changing the law, I certainly have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with is every sensible debate on gender issues being turned into a women/feminist bashing session.

    Any reliable stats show that women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault by men and not the other way around. It's become so well studied that it's common knowledge. So whenever threads like these pop up and I see posters claiming otherwise and pulling out dubious stats from dubious sources, I become automatically wary and cynical.

    Honestly, any sort of crime against anyone is vile. I am disgusted by it all and would genuinely like to see realistic and sensible action to prevent these crimes and punish the perpetrators. Rapists are the lowest of the low. So I'd like ask an open question - what are your motives? Do you genuinely care about male sexual assault victims? Or do you just want to put women down? I ask this because I have seen a lot, and I mean a lot, of misogynist threads and comments on this forum often disguised as something else. Just wondering if this thread of another one of those.
    What a ridiculous post. It's comments like this which cause feminists to be viewed with disdain, because this is not a debate on gender issues and asking questions about the status of rape, rapists and rape victims is not some sort of assault of female identity.

    Rape is defined as it is, largely because historically women were possessions and their sexual history affected their value. This is no longer the case, but how we define rape has been around for a very long time and it takes a while for these things to shift. In the moral sense of perpetrating a traumatic sexual assault, anybody is capable of raping anybody. I think there is a case for gradations based on other circumstances - I argued on another thread not too long ago for distinguishing between cases where consent is compromised (i.e. where it's given with impaired judgement, or conditional) and cases where it's totally absent.

    There are no reliable statistics on male victims of rape or sexual assault in this country - or most countries. Reporting rates are microscopic, This is a problem, because we know it happens and we know it happens far more often than than it might seem. But we're not allowed to address this issue because idiot misandrists start screaming "you're trivialising rape! stop oppressing women!" as if defining who can and cannot be a victim is somehow empowering.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    x
    Just because it legally isn't rape if a woman spikes a man and 'rapes' him doesn't mean she won't be prosecuted and get the same sentence. It would just be called sexual assault instead.

    Also, according to the Interpretation Act 1978, 'he', in an Act, includes 'she'. So I'm sure if it came to it, a judge would be able to use statutory interpretation to infer that the purpose of the Act was to prevent any unwanted sex, and therefore where it is the other way around it is legally rape.
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    The law states that it can only be rape if a penis penetrates another person without their consent. That means a man or woman can be a victim of rape but only a man can be a rapist, due to woman not having penises obviously.

    If a man or woman penetrates someone with an object or other body part, that's classed as sexual assault by law.

    That's the law, written and enforced by men - yes, MEN with penises. Not some sort of feminist conspiracy. A lot of women would agree with changing the law, I certainly have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with is every sensible debate on gender issues being turned into a women/feminist bashing session.

    Any reliable stats show that women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault by men and not the other way around. It's become so well studied that it's common knowledge. So whenever threads like these pop up and I see posters claiming otherwise and pulling out dubious stats from dubious sources, I become automatically wary and cynical.

    Honestly, any sort of crime against anyone is vile. I am disgusted by it all and would genuinely like to see realistic and sensible action to prevent these crimes and punish the perpetrators. Rapists are the lowest of the low. So I'd like ask an open question - what are your motives? Do you genuinely care about male sexual assault victims? Or do you just want to put women down? I ask this because I have seen a lot, and I mean a lot, of misogynist threads and comments on this forum often disguised as something else. Just wondering if this thread of another one of those.
    This. Unfortunately out of rep.
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    I think the law on rape should change. If you rape someone, you should face the death penalty. Whether you're a first time offender or not, I think that would solve it.

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    (Original post by pinda.college)
    I don't think a women's vagina can penetrate a penis lol, would have to be reworded. Also hopefully someone can provide some stats to your question.
    haha i obviously meant the woman can mount her virgina on an erected penis by her own will and therefore there is penetration of the penis into her virgina. come on man, are you that dense?
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    vagina*
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    (Original post by danbrookes95)
    I think the law on rape should change. If you rape someone, you should face the death penalty. Whether you're a first time offender or not, I think that would solve it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile

    death means no living everyday punishment. and so death should only be there if ti would actually deter people from raping, otherwise its hardly a punishment since the execution process is fairly quick.
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    (Original post by Nearvan)
    Probably for the simple reason that most men would consent to sex, always, thus the action not be officially categorized as rape.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If a man finds a female extremely unattractive or in fact repulsive, why would he consent to sex with her?
    Such a female may even be physically stronger than the man and could overpower him and force herself onto him.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    What a ridiculous post. It's comments like this which cause feminists to be viewed with disdain, because this is not a debate on gender issues and asking questions about the status of rape, rapists and rape victims is not some sort of assault of female identity.

    Rape is defined as it is, largely because historically women were possessions and their sexual history affected their value. This is no longer the case, but how we define rape has been around for a very long time and it takes a while for these things to shift. In the moral sense of perpetrating a traumatic sexual assault, anybody is capable of raping anybody. I think there is a case for gradations based on other circumstances - I argued on another thread not too long ago for distinguishing between cases where consent is compromised (i.e. where it's given with impaired judgement, or conditional) and cases where it's totally absent.

    There are no reliable statistics on male victims of rape or sexual assault in this country - or most countries. Reporting rates are microscopic, This is a problem, because we know it happens and we know it happens far more often than than it might seem. But we're not allowed to address this issue because idiot misandrists start screaming "you're trivialising rape! stop oppressing women!" as if defining who can and cannot be a victim is somehow empowering.
    Nah, in what way was my post hysterical? Go on, describe how I am a screaming misandrist?

    It's fine if this is to be a discussion on male victims of rape. I'm cool with that and I think I'd like to join in the discussion. However, I do have a big problem with these type of threads which then turn into a blame women for everything session. The OP wants the law to be changed, fine, so do I. But is it really helpful to then accuse women of wanting everything to be in their favour? Go back, read some of the comments and then you'll see why I ask whether you guys really do want to help male victims or just put women down.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    I class myself as a feminist but I don't agree with this. Feminism means equality for men and women, that doesn't mean hating on men and blaming them for things like rape. Which is how men will inevitably feel because there is so much hatred directed from feminists at men on this issue, because of the whole "men are the rapists don't blame us if we're dressed so you can see what we had for dinner". While men should be taught that it's not ok to rape women even if they are dressed in little clothing, it should be part of EVERYONE being taught that's it not ok to rape anyone, ever, no matter what they're wearing or how 'up for it' you think they are. It can come across very aggressively from a feminist point of view which I think makes people take it less seriously and just label it as man-hating.

    Plus even if the statistics do swing that way, I bet a lot of men who are raped don't come forward because of the shame of being raped by a woman. I wouldn't expect such statistics to be very reliable, it's the same as how men often don't report domestic abuse from a woman.
    I think the reason feminists come across so aggressively is precisely because people try to play down the importance of the statistics. There being under-reported cases of rape on males is obviously a concern but saying that just to brush the statistics for rape against women under the carpet is silly. That's usually how debates - on TSR anyway - go.

    Also, that people try to justify rape (usually discussed as being against women) with 'she should cover up more' which is a ludicrous argument. Just as much as saying 'they were provoking them by being a *****' about a murder victim. So people passionately retaliate. And again, because the focus is usually on rape committed against women as there's more evidence for it, it all seems very one-sided.
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Women can be convicted of rape...


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If they have a penis. Otherwise it's sexual assault.
 
 
 
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