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So I was at an EU debate informal question time like thing at uni -no pro eu argument Watch

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    (Original post by C_G)
    Historically, almost all our success in international affairs on the continent has been due to the powers on the continent itself. Aside from the Second World War, Britain has never stood alone on the continent and had we ever then our capability to influence events would have been incredibly difficult. I know it's not entirely relevant to what you were saying, but I just thought I'd mention it in any case.
    Probably never completely alone, but pretty much. I doubt if we left nations like Portugal and Holland who we have strong historic links with will turn against us. Infact, many of the 'look how irrational the Brits are' complaints are mimicked elsewhere in Europe.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Emphasisng the word could, not will. Only an idiot of a manager will go for the cheapest labour option. It's all about labour productivity. Hence the reason why Germany with really high labour rates is a desirable destination and places like Greece aren't for investment. That won't change if we're in or out.

    Actually, leaving the EU might help us retain whats left of aerospace as we can ring fence it. By your logic we shouldn't be working on the F35 because we're not part of NAFTA, but we are. Business will succeed where it can, and die where it can't. That's the nature of the game.

    I find it hard to believe that stroppy Eurocrats will throw their toys out of the pram and ban trade with us. Europe needs friends at the moment, especially when it comes to trade. Tit for trade trade wars won't help, especially when London's financial center can rock the boat very hard for them.
    Just as you emphasise the world could mean more investment in British business and claim, key word claim, that withdrawal from the EU won't have any effect on British business or trade.

    When you say only an idiot of a manager would go for the cheapest labour option you mean large companies and corporations, in particular international ones.

    We won't ring-fence aerospace, it won't happen under this current government anyway and I don't think Labour would be desperate to do something like that.

    You underestimate the storminess of EU leaders. Of course I'm not suggesting that trade will be banned or anything remotely like that, but when individual nations are making trade deals with us, then other EU nations will give them better deals than we could outside the EU, regardless. When we're in the club we can get more out of our trade deals, we'll be isolated outside of it. London is the most powerful financial centre, that's centre not center, but it will be damaged if we withdraw from the EU.
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Norway can fish as much as it likes, EU tells the UK its not allowed to fish.

    Thats just one of the benefits Norway has in not being in the EU.
    I don't deny there are benefits of being outside the EU. The common fisheries policy is a disgrace and withdrawing, at the very least reforming that, is something I passionately agree with. I have seen the effects of it head on considering where I live.

    However I also believe that Norway and Switzerland are at a disadvantage when it comes to certain things with the EU, where we are not.
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    (Original post by Seahorseman)
    The first one - We have a trade deficit with the EU, so if they withdraw their money we would withdraw our money and actually be better off as we import more than we export to the EU.
    A trade deficit is not necessarily a bad thing; this has been known since Adam Smith wrote Wealth of Nations in the 18th century. Cutting off trade with Europe would be enormously detrimental to the economy. The real counter-argument here is that leaving the EU is not the same as leaving EFTA; we can still have free trade with Europe without being an EU member.

    The second one - Exploiting cheap labour is disgusting and only leads to the reduction in your own wages. Plus any businesses that truly want to exploit cheap labour already relocated to China/India. Also if you support exploiting cheap labour then do you support scrapping the minimum wage, the NHS, free education and welfare so you can get some proper India style exploiting going on?
    It's so disgusting and exploitative that people are willing to leave their home countries and come here to be exploited? Have you considered that the alternatives for them are worse, and that by preventing "exploitation" you only deny them an opportunity they wouldn't otherwise have? And maybe learn a thing a thing or two about India, China and South Korea; those nations would be a great deal poorer without us evil exploiting capitalists trading with them.

    The third one - If we don't have enough workers that is a good thing. It means we have a very low unemployment rate. If not then the education system simply needs to be tweaked to provide people with the right skills.
    No it doesn't; the unemployment rate is not a function of population. Immigrants bring with them demand, and the reason people migrate in the first place is because they can put their labour to better use and demand higher pay elsewhere. Free migration increases the efficiency of the global economy for the same reason free trade does. Immigration is only economically detrimental to countries with very large and very generous welfare states - this problem is best dealt with not by blocking immigration but by either reforming the welfare system or by applying a different set of rules to non-citizens regarding welfare and taxation.

    I don't particularly like the EU, but the arguments you present against it are weak.
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    (Original post by Nick100)

    It's so disgusting and exploitative that people are willing to leave their home countries and come here to be exploited? Have you considered that the alternatives for them are worse, and that by preventing "exploitation" you only deny them an opportunity they wouldn't otherwise have? And maybe learn a thing a thing or two about India, China and South Korea; those nations would be a great deal poorer without us evil exploiting capitalists trading with them.



    No it doesn't; the unemployment rate is not a function of population. Immigrants bring with them demand, and the reason people migrate in the first place is because they can put their labour to better use and demand higher pay elsewhere. Free migration increases the efficiency of the global economy for the same reason free trade does. Immigration is only economically detrimental to countries with very large and very generous welfare states - this problem is best dealt with not by blocking immigration but by either reforming the welfare system or by applying a different set of rules to non-citizens regarding welfare and taxation.

    I don't particularly like the EU, but the arguments you present against it are weak.
    So you are saying it is out money making other countries richer? Why would we do something so stupid? Let's keep the money for ourselves and stay on top. The whole point of money isn't for luxuries and comfort but for your position in the social hierarchy.
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    (Original post by Seahorseman)
    So you are saying it is out money making other countries richer? Why would we do something so stupid? Let's keep the money for ourselves and stay on top. The whole point of money isn't for luxuries and comfort but for your position in the social hierarchy.
    It makes us richer too. Trade is mutually beneficial; that's why it happens.
 
 
 
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