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    (Original post by The Mad Dog)
    Are you thick, just can't read a fairly simple post of a single paragraph or deliberately missing the point?

    I'm not saying we should ban the whip, the post you've quoted doesn't even mention the whip :fyi:, the entirety of horse racing is dangerous and the whole set-up of shoving a load of horses in between two fences where they could potentially clash with each-other and kill each-other needs to be stopped should be outlawed. Allowing the racing of animals for nothing more than the enjoyment of animals and making cash for the gambling industry is morally corrupt.
    I am indeed missing the point and have been for a while to try and get an insight into your mind.

    You're talking from a moral viewpoint now. I find it morally wrong that animals are kept in poor condition, and I would go and say that more animals die of malnutrition and mistreatment than they do in racing. I would say that tacking that problem is of a higher priority that that of racing. Banning racing is a priority because it is of high visibility but goes nowhere in tackling the problems of wider animal rights and protection.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    I am indeed missing the point and have been for a while to try and get an insight into your mind.

    You're talking from a moral viewpoint now. I find it morally wrong that animals are kept in poor condition, and I would go and say that more animals die of malnutrition and mistreatment than they do in racing. I would say that tacking that problem is of a higher priority that that of racing. Banning racing is a priority because it is of high visibility but goes nowhere in tackling the problems of wider animal rights and protection.
    Sweet. While we deal with racing, what would you suggest we do about malnutrition and mistreatment?
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Sweet. While we deal with racing, what would you suggest we do about malnutrition and mistreatment?
    I am against the banning of racing, but would encourage harsher penalties for owners who treat their pets badly.

    Also, I would encourage the creation of education programs for owners, as currently people can buy dogs with no background check and no training.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    I am indeed missing the point and have been for a while to try and get an insight into your mind.

    You're talking from a moral viewpoint now. I find it morally wrong that animals are kept in poor condition, and I would go and say that more animals die of malnutrition and mistreatment than they do in racing. I would say that tacking that problem is of a higher priority that that of racing. Banning racing is a priority because it is of high visibility but goes nowhere in tackling the problems of wider animal rights and protection.
    Then present a bill to prevent malnutrition and mistreatment of animals, that's something I think all Greens would support. The fact we need to do more to deal with that problem doesn't exclude doing this. I disagree with you on that last sentence though, it goes some way to solving the problems we've identified which is the abuse of animals for human enjoyment..
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    The economic benefits of horse racing suggest it should not be banned entirely. Instead of an authoritarian blanket ban, we must continue to lobby for safety standards and welfare to be incrementally improved. A no from me.
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    Going after the greyhound/horse racers is missing the far crueler aspect of dog fighting. I'd rather be channeling funds into dismantling that to be honest, horse racing has been around too long to simply snap your fingers and stop, so nay.
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    (Original post by tufc)
    No; because the vast majority of them live very nice lives. As a conservative, I have to weigh up different causes and effects, and establish which to me is important, clearing my mind of ideology. The vast contribution to the economy and the betterment of the lives of thousands of horses is, to me, worth the tragic hundred or so horses killed each year.
    Fair. I personally don't see that the horses lve particularly brilliant lives and don't think it's 'worth' it, but this is a moral argument I'm never going to hammer home to people who disagree!
    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Going after the greyhound/horse racers is missing the far crueler aspect of dog fighting. I'd rather be channeling funds into dismantling that to be honest, horse racing has been around too long to simply snap your fingers and stop, so nay.
    Well sure but those are already illegal, this was originated as a law change not implementation change. How do you suggest cracking down on dog fighting?
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Fair. I personally don't see that the horses lve particularly brilliant lives and don't think it's 'worth' it, but this is a moral argument I'm never going to hammer home to people who disagree!Well sure but those are already illegal, this was originated as a law change not implementation change. How do you suggest cracking down on dog fighting?
    True, I'm just highlighting how I don't see why the policy aimed at protecting animals is about horse and greyhounds, kind of skipping what would be the main problem, plus I vire No to this policy anyway.

    Honestly? I've no idea how to crack down on dogfighting, steeper punishments? Monitoring those associated, but I can't think how to integrate it into a policy.
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    How about instead of banning the sport entirely, we impose stricter regulation on how the races are organised?

    For instance, take a look at the the changes the Grand National implemented due to the number of horses having to be put down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_N...#Horse_welfare

    If you look at the statistics, 6 horses dying per 1000 taking part in a modern steeplechase seems like a pretty insignificant number to begin with. If we were to introduce laws regarding the fences they have to jump over and other aspects of the race then it could be possible to reduce it further.
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    (Original post by Donniee)
    How about instead of banning the sport entirely, we impose stricter regulation on how the races are organised?

    For instance, take a look at the the changes the Grand National implemented due to the number of horses having to be put down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_N...#Horse_welfare

    If you look at the statistics, 6 horses dying per 1000 taking part in a modern steeplechase seems like a pretty insignificant number to begin with. If we were to introduce laws regarding the fences they have to jump over and other aspects of the race then it could be possible to reduce it further.
    Racing organisations' incentives will always be to push these horses to the limit of what they can get away with. The very nature of the practice is contrary to animal welfare; these animals' well-being will always secondary to profit. I do not believe animals deserve our half-hearted support - we should be willing to put our money where our mouth is and say that Britain does not tolerate animals' captivity and forced racing in the name of our own amusement.
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