Why do Internation Students have such a Reputation? Watch

Origami Bullets
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Abblecrumble)
How do these students with poor English understand lectures or write essays? I hear that international students get good grades so they must have good English. :confused:
Two factors
A) it can be a lot easier to read and write English than to speak rapid colloquial English
B) a vastly disproportionate number if people at my uni caught cheating are internationals (this was in the student paper earlier this year; I'll find the link if you wish).

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Boccard
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#42
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(Original post by Origami Bullets)
B) a vastly disproportionate number if people at my uni caught cheating are internationals (this was in the student paper earlier this year; I'll find the link if you wish).

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Please provide the evidence for B) being a factor in the statement in question.
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GnomeMage
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#43
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(Original post by Abblecrumble)
Hi! I'll be attending university in September and from reading through the forums, I find that the international students seem to:

  • Never leave their room
  • Only interact with other international students
  • Eat other people's foods or cause some trouble within shared accommodation


This is probably just a generalisation and just the impression I got from other posts here.

So, has anyone got some good stories about sharing with international students? Why do international students get a reputation of being antisocial? If you are an international student, what's your take on it?

-busy studying
-busy visiting tourist sites around the UK
-when i go out with my english friends, they never seem to talk to me, making the situation extremely awkward for me
-i never eat others food, its usually the other way round
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Origami Bullets
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#44
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(Original post by Boccard)
Please provide the evidence for B) being a factor in the statement in question.
It's not to say that all international students cheat, or anything like that, but the disproportionality is striking
http://mancunion.com/2012/02/16/plag...ents%E2%80%9D/
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jelly1000
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#45
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(Original post by Origami Bullets)
It's not to say that all international students cheat, or anything like that, but the disproportionality is striking
http://mancunion.com/2012/02/16/plag...ents%E2%80%9D/
very interesting. probally because they feel that they are under so much more pressure from back home to do well and some of them might struggle to write essays under pressure.

i dont understand though why other countries dont explain about referencing, anyone plagarising material regardless of where they are in the world is bad.
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zaback21
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Origami Bullets)
It's not to say that all international students cheat, or anything like that, but the disproportionality is striking
http://mancunion.com/2012/02/16/plag...ents%E2%80%9D/
Thats quite sad. I myself an international student. I studied for quite some time in another major English speaking country. Unfortunately I havent seen or ever heard of such cheating. In fact not ever saw anybody got caught in exam or for plagiarism.

And about plagiarism, its true that unis most times don't explain how to put reference correctly. In my 1st year 1st semester in my 1st assignment, I was sort of informally told I plagiarised and my assignment copy as checked twice. When I told them I did referenced it at the end of the assignment instead of Harvard styled, they accepted my assignment and I remember getting 82 in that. So, yes referencing and plagiarism is a sort of problem I can say more than 50%+ international students faces when they start their uni in UK/USA or other country.

And about exam, its shocking. I could have never thought people will actually think of cheating and passing in exam. And yes, about the cheating they explained about notes in eraser boxes, its shocking that students can actually think of cheating and passing in The University of Manchester exam. What sort of faculty sets up question paper where you can bring notes to cheat and pass ? I can't think of engineering students passing exam by bringing notes !!! In my course even if its open book, I think it will hardly matter lol. The University of Manchester has more to blame than the students here. They should not set up questions where people can bring in notes and take advantages in exam. The exam paper should be unseen and analytically challenging instead of memorise and pass.
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Origami Bullets
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#47
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(Original post by zaback21)
Thats quite sad. I myself an international student. I studied for quite some time in another major English speaking country. Unfortunately I havent seen or ever heard of such cheating. In fact not ever saw anybody got caught in exam or for plagiarism.

And about plagiarism, its true that unis most times don't explain how to put reference correctly. In my 1st year 1st semester in my 1st assignment, I was sort of informally told I plagiarised and my assignment copy as checked twice. When I told them I did referenced it at the end of the assignment instead of Harvard styled, they accepted my assignment and I remember getting 82 in that. So, yes referencing and plagiarism is a sort of problem I can say more than 50%+ international students faces when they start their uni in UK/USA or other country.

And about exam, its shocking. I could have never thought people will actually think of cheating and passing in exam. And yes, about the cheating they explained about notes in eraser boxes, its shocking that students can actually think of cheating and passing in The University of Manchester exam. What sort of faculty sets up question paper where you can bring notes to cheat and pass ? I can't think of engineering students passing exam by bringing notes !!! In my course even if its open book, I think it will hardly matter lol. The University of Manchester has more to blame than the students here. They should not set up questions where people can bring in notes and take advantages in exam. The exam paper should be unseen and analytically challenging instead of memorise and pass.
The exams ARE unseen and analytically challenging, certainly in social sciences (my department), but it doesn't stop people trying to cheat. Often I think it's a last ditch act of desperation on students who believe that they will fail otherwise. I did once see two students (of East Asian appearance, though I didn't actually know them personally so I don't know if they were international or British born) pulled out of a politics exam for cheating. From the looks of it, they had earphones in. In science and engineering subjects, they often have to memorise formulae, so they could cheat by putting those formulae on bits of paper, for instance, though that would not be sufficient to pass at all.

It's very sad, but I think that often it is partially the fault of universities, who take students with subpar English skills to act as cash cows. In some cases, it will be the case that the students cheated in their IELTS / TOEFL exam (see http://mancunion.com/2012/09/27/prof...e-of-students/http://mancunion.com/2012/09/27/prof...e-of-students/). I don't know about the extent of that problem, but I rather think that the universities should be retesting them once they get to campus, and if they fail putting them on a foundation English course. Those students then can't study properly in English, and so believe that they are going to fail, and cheat. It's not acting in the best interests of the international students at all, and I really do dislike the practice (NB this isn't a Manchester-specific problem - it's just about everywhere).
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zaback21
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#48
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(Original post by Origami Bullets)
The exams ARE unseen and analytically challenging, certainly in social sciences (my department), but it doesn't stop people trying to cheat. Often I think it's a last ditch act of desperation on students who believe that they will fail otherwise. I did once see two students (of East Asian appearance, though I didn't actually know them personally so I don't know if they were international or British born) pulled out of a politics exam for cheating. From the looks of it, they had earphones in. In science and engineering subjects, they often have to memorise formulae, so they could cheat by putting those formulae on bits of paper, for instance, though that would not be sufficient to pass at all.

It's very sad, but I think that often it is partially the fault of universities, who take students with subpar English skills to act as cash cows. In some cases, it will be the case that the students cheated in their IELTS / TOEFL exam (see http://mancunion.com/2012/09/27/prof...e-of-students/http://mancunion.com/2012/09/27/prof...e-of-students/). I don't know about the extent of that problem, but I rather think that the universities should be retesting them once they get to campus, and if they fail putting them on a foundation English course. Those students then can't study properly in English, and so believe that they are going to fail, and cheat. It's not acting in the best interests of the international students at all, and I really do dislike the practice (NB this isn't a Manchester-specific problem - it's just about everywhere).
These are shocking and sad things to read. No wonder IELTS started the biometrics identification recently. Yes I have heard of IELTS scam but it happened mostly in India and China where imposter gave exam instead of the real student.

And scamming the Ivy League and top UK uni is seriously the fault of uni for not taking necessary checks during exam. I will say it again, the world is neither fair nor nice. Hence its up to the individual to be careful and take necessary measures. Having said so me being an international student, I can tell not all international student are like such. Instead its only very few and mostly region specific (sorry no offence) cheats who are responsible.
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Manitude
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#49
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In my experience, a lot of internationals stick together, even internationals from different countries.
Having said that, a girl from Malaysia on my course spoke to me for the first time to congratulate me on graduating, so that was nice!
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Ivanka
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#50
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(Original post by jelly1000)
very interesting. probally because they feel that they are under so much more pressure from back home to do well and some of them might struggle to write essays under pressure.

i dont understand though why other countries dont explain about referencing, anyone plagarising material regardless of where they are in the world is bad.
We did get long talks on referencing and plagiarism even at grammar school. A guy that copied a text without referencing (well, his work was pretty much all copied from elsewhere...) was expelled, other schoolmates having done the same had to redo it or got really low marks.
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Abblecrumble
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Abblecrumble)
I do! I think the pub is a nice place to socialise, but I'm not really big on clubbing. Sometimes I just prefer to stay in and watch a good film of have a good chat over coffee and cakes.
Why did this get negged? :eek: There's nothing wrong with a bit of cake.
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RachaelBee
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I was friends with a guy who was an international student and came to England to improve his English as well as study, he was looking forward to living with a lot of other English students and making English friends then the university put him in a house with a lot of other Spanish students which he was pretty unhappy about. He was still a very sociable person but someone less out-going may have struggled to make friends outside of those they were living directly with.
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