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Should we ban women's studies/gender studies? Watch

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    (Original post by ukmed108)
    I'd say so but from what i've noticed, arts students have fewer class hours, have more time to party and I had an arts student tell me he doesn't need to study for exams, he just makes sure he can write an essay by just memorizing a few essays. All this while I was studying day and night for my medicine exam.

    I wouldn't call arts students necessarily less intelligent, but they sure have an easier time in uni.
    I think we get less class hours because more of our marks come from our 'own reading'. In first year at least I found that arts students had to study more as the science courses often had no exams, or if they did, they were multiple choice. Although this changes in the later years of undergrad study.

    I'm in the unusual position of studying joint honours in a science and an art (Geography/History). At the moment I'd say the workload is pretty much similar for both. I find the history exams a lot worse as the essays are so unpredictable, however the geography coursework includes statistics which is equally as hard.
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    (Original post by ChieOnakata)
    I think the methodology, the way they carry out their research is scientific, to some extent with any research logic is involved. I agree to an extent I suppose the content of the social sciences is very subjective rather than objective. When we think of science we think of quantum particles and K vs R selection theory, organic chemistry etc. However the core basis of science is logic and evidence to back up the findings. A world without the social sciences wouldn't be a good idea either. We need a balance, our whole world cannot solely be based on science, the humanities and science have to work together.
    They don't follow the same basic pathway. Put simply the "experiment" part is a lot more complicated in social sciences and often the scientific method is not used (in part or in full) when forming conclusions.

    It's not to say that one is better than the other. Social sciences have limitations that science does not but this says nothing of it as a legitimate area of inquiry. Scientific research and research in social sciences though are conducted in very different ways.
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    Not sure what's sexist about this. I did say "Gender Studies" too but for whatever reason "Women's studies" is much more common than "Men's studies" and so I emphasised Women's studies. There's nothing sexist about this.

    But yes, Women's studies as a degree is for the most part useless. Perhaps it could be useful if it was a part of a history or psychology course. People who study it would be better off learning something useful, and then perhaps studying it as a hobby which is all it is.

    And yes gender studies courses do exist - here is one such course: http://www.soas.ac.uk/genderstudies/magenderstudies/

    I'm not generalising arts students because many of these degrees are useful. Gender studies, however, is not.

    Has a student of gender studies ever achieved anything significant?
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    (Original post by sdm123)

    And yes gender studies courses do exist - here is one such course if you're willing to excuse the typos http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/cent...grad/index.htm
    But this isn't an undergraduate degree, it's a "a one year Part I course", which is "available to students on most degree schemes". :lolwut:
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    (Original post by medbh4805)
    But this isn't an undergraduate degree, it's a "a one year Part I course", which is "available to students on most degree schemes". :lolwut:
    So it is. I have edited with another program.
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    I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other courses that are just as pointless, if not more so than gender/women studies. Why not make the thread about them all, why be sexist and just mention those 2?
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    (Original post by sdm123)
    And yes gender studies courses do exist - here is one such course: http://www.soas.ac.uk/genderstudies/magenderstudies/

    (Original post by sdm123)
    So it is. I have edited with another program.
    This is not an undergraduate degree either. :erm:
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    (Original post by medbh4805)
    This is not an undergraduate degree either. :erm:
    Nowhere in my OP or that post did I suggest that I was only talking about undergraduate degrees. So what, exactly is your point?
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    (Original post by sdm123)
    Nowhere in my OP or that post did I suggest that I was only talking about undergraduate degrees. So what, exactly is your point?
    "the tax payer has to subsidise them, costing a lot of money in a country with a large deficit problem."

    Do you realise that the vast majority of MA courses are self funded?

    Do you realise that arts students are often in fact subsidizing others through the fees they pay at both postgraduate and undergraduate level?

    Could you provide any statistics on how many Gender/Women's Studies students are in fact funded by the AHRC? (I'm guessing not many if any at all - Oxford University's BG for example provides only ~20 funded places at master's level across the whole humanities division).
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    (Original post by sdm123)
    Nowhere in my OP or that post did I suggest that I was only talking about undergraduate degrees. So what, exactly is your point?
    You criticise these subjects as they are subsidised by the tax payer, when in actual fact you have failed to provide a single example of a Women's Studies undergraduate degree. The majority of post graduate courses are funded by the student, either via their own personal funds or through a career development loan from the bank. Not many are funded by the government. Your argument is bad, just accept it.
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    (Original post by SpicyStrawberry)
    You criticise these subjects as they are subsidised by the tax payer, when in actual fact you have failed to provide a single example of a Women's Studies undergraduate degree. The majority of post graduate courses are funded by the student, either via their own personal funds or through a career development loan from the bank. Not many are funded by the government. Your argument is bad, just accept it.
    and even if there were an undergraduate course, you've got to attempt to refute a pretty strong case that it would be a valuable area of study
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    My undergraduate degree was in History with a minor in Gender Studies and I recently completed a joint MA in these fields. While working on my masters I met many intelligent hardworking individuals who were working on a Gender Studies MA. Note that I said individuals, as the students in our department were from many different counties, of different skin colours, genders, sexes, sexual orientations... Though not perfect cross section, there are many people that do choose to study gender, either as an integral part of their other studies, or as the beginning of a career path.

    There is this assumption that students of this topic do little to contribute after completing their degrees, and that their studies are less rigorous, challenging, or scientific compared to other fields. Gender Studies (like many other 'area studies' such as Post-Colonial) by its very basis is highly interdisciplinary, incorporating other social sciences like history, sociology, psychology, and (gasp!) the physical sciences like biology or neuroscience. Statistics, research design and methodology were all key parts of the programme.

    Back to the question that made me want to reply in the first place:

    (Original post by sdm123)
    Has a student of gender studies ever achieved anything significant?
    Thank you for asking this. I'll just go over a few of the achievements some of these graduates in the few years since they completed their programmes. Many are continuing on to PhDs in Gender Studies or other fields (including funded PhDs at prestigious universities).

    A brief and in no way comprehensive list that I compiled in about 30 minutes or so:
    - peace studies organisation/think tank in eastern Europe
    - quite a few have gone off to non-profit or charity work and management (some in organisations that focus on women and children, or lgbt rights, others in broader human rights issues or anti-war)
    - human rights work for the UN
    - professor - mostly in the humanities, and some in social sciences, one in research design/methodology/statistics (not sure how to classify that)
    - research associate (for a research council)
    - starting a business

    I'm not saying Gender Studies is perfect as field of study, like many other disciplines it is fractured into various schools of thought and sub-fields, perhaps more so due to it's interdisciplinary nature. What is does do is encourage you to think, examine, and question the world around you, recognising cultural relativism, and your own inherent biases. (Not saying that to the exclusion of other fields, just that gender studies is particularly effective in this area.)

    Sorry this was so long, but thank you for asking this question. Also, 'significant' can be highly subjective.

    A bit circular thinking, but that people need to ask why Gender Studies is necessary/important/needed or even exists, that people need to ask if women are capable of being equal to men, just reminds me why it does need to exist. (That same sort of thinking holds true for human rights degrees, post-colonial studies, race and ethnicity studies.)

    Edit: formatting and clarity
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    This whole thread is pathetic.

    I did my BA in Politics and Philosophy and gender studies/Women's studies is far from what you think it is. It is basically applied phisosophy/physchology/sociology and psychoanalysis, which are all areas that conflate to form part of Critical Theory. While I agree, it should not be an undergraduate degree, it is a constantly evolving area of discourse, which validates the need for it as a focused and rigorous option in the postgraduate domain.

    Graduates often go into lawmaking and academia, both nationally and internationally, as most programmes require the student to study two or more languages to engage with philosophical texts in french and another language. To try and talk of gender studies as a 'mickey-mouse' degree shows that you really have no idea how philosophically rigorous the field actually is. Trust me, I laughed as I chose it as a module in my undergrad and then **** myself writing an 8,000 word essay on the discursive implications of gender-neutrality.

    Not only has gender studies discourse had incalculable effects on women's liberation and the view of 'gender' worldwide, but it is constantly relevant. I suggest you really refine your knowledge of the subject before mincing in with your self-assured bull**** talking about the 'tax-payer'. What does that even mean?

    If you want to talk about **** degrees, let's not start with one of the most globally relevant, fluid, philosophically rigorous areas of academic discourse shall we?

    mwah x
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    When asked, you are also unable to refute many criticisms against the OP.

    Be careful next time before stepping into the Lion's den, because you will get intellectually ruined
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    (Original post by James Flahey)
    Social sciences are not truly scientific..
    but a lot of it is about the quantification of observation and attempting to draw statistical evidence and it's significance ...
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    (Original post by sdm123)
    To my mind these subjects are simply a waste, in several ways.
    I don't think it's waste, it's ideological training/indoctrination.

    This sort of thing should not be illegal but it should not be subsidised by the taxpayer either.
 
 
 
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