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    (Original post by Ceryni)
    I'd feel skeptical. They may have every conviction for supporting Israel, and possibly even some good reasons, yet I think many people too often just follow the view of the media, instead of bothering to research vague debates such as this for themselves. I visited Israel a few years ago and visited some Palestinian communities just outside the West Bank, and was shocked to see bullet-holes in the doors to schools and homes just across the road from the wall and the guard towers. Obviously, the Palestinian forces are hardly angelic, but anyone who strongly supports either side in this conflict cannot truly understand the extent of damage which Israel continues to inflict.
    ive been to israel and palestine as well.
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    There's terrorists on both sides, problem is one turns up to the fight with a pocket knife, the other with a cruise missile and multi million PR campaign team. When you understand the history and see what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians you will see things a lot differently.

    Start with some pictures.

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread594970/pg1
    Those kind of websites are no more credible than Israeli governmental website, they're usually frequented by conspiracy theorist crackpots. From what I could be bothered to read it showed violence from both sides?

    If you know someone is going to retaliate with a cruise missile and you only have a knife surely you're stupidity is partially to blame? Don't make it out as though Palestine have poor PR, millions of people make it out as though Palestine is the poor innocent victim and Israel is the big bad wolf.

    From my understanding Israel have allowed Arabs to settle on land that is rightly there's, attempted to prevent expansion from Palestine and over time they're now making (mostly) the West Bank smaller.

    From reading your other posts it's clear that you refuse to put any blame on Palestine. If they stop using schools as missile launch sites Israel will stop bombing them, the root cause in those incidents is the Palestinian terrorists (not to say Israel are in the right).
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    My immediate action is I don't care who supports what. Most people who argue these cases gain their information off the news which is purposely made to show the negatives of the world.

    I've other things to think about without worrying what's happening thousands of miles across the world

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    (Original post by wag12k12dunkno)
    ive been to israel and palestine as well.
    Then you will have seen the same things that I saw. I am in no way denying the fact that there are many Palestinian terrorists who have targeted Israel over the years, but I do not believe that Israel only retaliates, or if it does, that it follows its actions through to ensure the least harm and conflict to those many peaceful Palestinians who live outside the West Bank barrier and who are often caught in the conflict between the two factions.

    If Israel is the great democratic center of the Middle East that you claim it is, they could be doing a lot more reparative actions alongside the Palestinian state to help their people, to target the terrorists together, instead of blinding shooting at the dark.
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    (Original post by Ceryni)
    Then you will have seen the same things that I saw. I am in no way denying the fact that there are many Palestinian terrorists who have targeted Israel over the years, but I do not believe that Israel only retaliates, or if it does, that it follows its actions through to ensure the least harm and conflict to those many peaceful Palestinians who live outside the West Bank barrier and who are often caught in the conflict between the two factions.

    If Israel is the great democratic center of the Middle East that you claim it is, they could be doing a lot more reparative actions alongside the Palestinian state to help their people, to target the terrorists together, instead of blinding shooting at the dark.
    how can the israeli and palestinian government work together to target the terrorists when the elected government of palestine (gaza strip) is listed by the UN as a terrorist organisation.. and that same government had violent clashes with fatah.

    furthermore, hamas is an offspring of the muslim brotherhood, and if you know anything about them then you know they are bad news.
    Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin stated in 1987, and the Hamas Charteraffirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

    And we all know how democratic and peaceful islamic states are.
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    I find it scary you think it's ok for a government to knowingly target schools and hospitals.
    I think it's a lot worse that the Palestinians launch rockets from schools and hospitals in the knowledge that Israel will either not return fire, or if they do the Palestinians can use the pictures of the aftermath as propaganda.
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    (Original post by wag12k12dunkno)
    how can the israeli and palestinian government work together to target the terrorists when the elected government of palestine (gaza strip) is listed by the UN as a terrorist organisation.. and that same government had violent clashes with fatah.

    furthermore, hamas is an offspring of the muslim brotherhood, and if you know anything about them then you know they are bad news.
    Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin stated in 1987, and the Hamas Charteraffirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

    And we all know how democratic and peaceful islamic states are.
    Sorry, that wasn't clear; what I really meant was the surrounding Palestinian communities, not the actual self-proclaimed state. What I'm trying to get at is that I would support Israel if, not only did they target the terrorists, but they helped the innocent Palestinians living there who are caught in the fight more.
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    (Original post by wag12k12dunkno)
    I don't why you've linked me with them with the " you wonder why they don't like you?" I'm not Jewish or israeli, i just don't buy into this popular left/liberal propaganda which is so popular with the youth today ( and dont worry, i used to be an adamant support of palestine to the point where i'd even changed my fb profile to Palestine's flag, but i've grown up now)

    And the context was a UN mandate after the genocide of the jews in the holocaust. Don't pretend the jews are some aggressors who just walked in and pushed the palestinians out. It was an internationally recognised movement.
    Are you seriously using "internationally recognised" in your defence? How bloody ironic.

    Because the attack on Mavi Marmara was "internationally recognised" right? No, it was a violation of International Law.

    Illegal settlements. Internationally recognised? Internationally condemned.

    Your nice little anecdote ignores the fact that the Israelis are "pushing" the Palestinians out right now. By force. Illegally. On land they do not own. So I don't know how simpler I can make it for you. And somehow this is acceptable/brushed under the carpet because some archaic text says its their 'Holy Land'?
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    (Original post by WillBoy136)
    Yes it is wrong for Israel to kill huge numbers of children (and innocent people in general) but do remember they don't specifically target children, they target the places that missiles are launched at them from so it's in the hands of the terrorists as much as the Israeli Defence Forces.

    Also I think people forget about simple human nature that makes the Israeli's retaliate with disproportionate force.
    What's proportionate force in your opinion? You make it sound like Israel responds to rocket attacks by picking out how many children to slaughter today. In fact it directs precision weapons against known terrorists and their storage and launch sites. Since these are usually deliberately located in built-up areas it is impossible to ensure there are no other casualties. The only alternative is to make no response at all.

    As a Brit, how do you feel about your ancestors having flattened Germany in response to much smaller bomb attacks against Britain? That was far, far less discriminate than what Israel does, yet today a Lancaster bomber often performs fly-pasts on state occasions and holidays and people seem pretty happy about that.
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    They're entitled to their opinion but I certainly don't agree with them.
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    (Original post by Ceryni)
    Sorry, that wasn't clear; what I really meant was the surrounding Palestinian communities, not the actual self-proclaimed state. What I'm trying to get at is that I would support Israel if, not only did they target the terrorists, but they helped the innocent Palestinians living there who are caught in the fight more.
    they cant, hamas, like all islamists, launch attacks from within civilian palestine communities, because it gives the m civilian cover and anonymity. The use of human shields is part of islamist thinking , because to them there wil be usually hesitaton or delayin a military response , and if and when there are civilian casualties as a result of their provocation, the islamists can use it as propaganda capital, make youtude clips, dvds etc. most peope are pretty gullible to the entire process
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    (Original post by wag12k12dunkno)
    as in support israel over palestine, wats your first reaction and wat do you think about them
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    Who's the real aggressor?

    I don't recall Palestinians building walls round Israel settlements, nor do i recall them forcing Israeli's off their lands to build new homes. I also don't recall them preventing Israelis from going to town to town, nor do I recall them severely restricting the movements of Israeli citizens.

    You wonder why they don't like you?
    so you remove the walls and allow freedom of movement for Palestinians and they will just bomb more. They would never be happy even if they claimed to get everything they asked for.
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    Whilst I don't always support all actions of the Israeli government I am pro Israel. Jews only have Israel, Muslims have many countries they can go and live in if they want to be ruled by their own. And given the history of persecution of the Jews its only natural that they want to defend themselves.
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    Many people here are complaining about how the Israelies treat the palestinians, but looking at other muslim countries in that area they treat their own citizens no better in many cases yet do not recieve the same level of critisism.

    I support Israel over palestine not because I like waht Israel is doing (I really don't) but because it is better than waht palestine is doing and likely would be doing if they had the means to.
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    (Original post by Ggmu!)
    Nope. Where was it? I don't see it lol.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Muslims and Jews will never get along. God knows why.

    I'll let you figure that out


    Spoiler:
    Show
    1. You don't believe in god
    2. Both religions were sent by god.
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    I would approve.
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    I would say good for you!


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    Shake their hand and agree with them.
 
 
 
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