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How to be attractive (all of TSR should read this) watch

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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Without being rude, how much have you actually put yourself out there? I've seen a few friends do it and their social skills always improved at least noticeably. Perhaps you're labelling yourself as "below average socially" and this is hurting your self-confidence? Obviously, if you go into a room feeling unconfident it's probably going to affect the way you interact with other people/body language etc. And when you say you've spent years working on it, maybe you're overanalysing? That would probably make it harder for you to socialise

    Also, are you hanging around with the same or similiar groups of people? I used to have a lot of very "academic/intellectual" friends through doing a particular hobby, who knew me from a time I was slightly more introverted. I didn't entirely "click with" and relate to them at the start and I didn't till I moved away and we no longer hung out, either. Some types of people just don't "gel"; I get on perfectly with other extroverted people who are into partying and sports and all that, and I'm fine with that.

    So maybe try interacting with a new group of people? if someone already sees you as "the awkward person" it can be very hard to change that perception. Also, without stereotyping people certain groups (especially the geekier types) can be very hard to break into plus having relatively bad social skills themselves - sometimes it isn't always your fault.



    Nobody "has" to read stuff like "The Game" or "The Rules." As said above, stuff like that will almost certainly get you more of a reputation for being a bit of a weirdo (no offence) than anything else, what with the outlandish stuff they proclaim. But, as to why some people are good with the opposite sex without ever picking up a book like this, again it comes down to social skills. Knowing how to get on with people. Nobody's just "born" that way.

    What is it that books like the The Game say thats so outlandish?
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Define "seduction technique".

    If it's something a guy would probably be doing anyway (e.g. being curious about the girl's life, putting your hand on her arm or something), the label is irrelevant as it's hardly some fancy, ground-breaking technique. If it's something he wouldn't (like coming up with a bizarre "neg" or wearing a feather boa and hat in the middle of a club to "peacock"), one will notice.

    Unless you've learned how to Jedi mind trick people. If you do, please PM me, I pay well for this stuff
    Well there's stuff like canned openers, where you pre plan an interesting topic, often asking her opinion on a relationship (probably fictional). If the guy does that without looking weird, there's no reason for you to doubt it. Obviously a "bizarre" neg is a bad neg. One my mate uses with very attractive girls, which is both evil and effective, is to touch his face as if the girl accidently spat as she spoke.

    I don't think it's anything miraculous, the main benefit is making a guy feel he's in control. But there are some good tips in there.
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    (Original post by 4RealBlud)
    Yes but you realise that that is developing a good personality. Having confidence and balls are very attractive traits, in essence all these "seduction" books are self-help material to help develop you as a person. If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you, no amount of excercise will help that. There are great body builders with amazing bodies that have self-confidence issues. Just telling someone with no social skills to just develop them is about as easy as telling a blind man to open his eyes and see. You need to know where to start and what's most important. Not to mention a lot of the PUAs have mountains of experience under their belt, so they know the fastest way to get to where you want, instead of yourself having to do a **** load of trial and error for yourself. They're methods are unorthodox and unfamiliar, but it's still personality development. They learn through habituation to no longer fear rejection to alter their posture, eye contact, touch. This is all personality development, they're not tricks or shortcuts by any means. PUAs have to go through a 6 month pain period of being constantly rejected over and over again, multiple times a night, multiple nights a week. That's not exactly quick or easy.
    PUA books are definitely not the best way to develop social skills. I agree that they contain some useful info (e.g. how to become more confident), but the problem is that the other stuff they suggest (at least what I've read) will still mess up your social skills.

    As said before, there are some great books on socialising and improving your confidence. PUA books are not one of them. It is noteworthy that they never sell themselves as "how to improve your social skills with people," but rather "how to pull 10000 hotties."

    Examples of BS advice I have seen in those books:

    -it retards your attitude towards the opposite sex by encouraging guys to basically show no respect towards women and banging on about evo psych, how women are "wired to" think etc. (For why evo psych is completely flawed as science, Google it). Not only will this affect the girls you're trying to hit on, but also your female friends generally. I've known guy acquaintances who tried PUA stuff, and I no longer hang out with them 'cause they're obnoxious little creeps with the weirdest attitude towards women.

    -it retards your attitude towards the same sex by encouraging you to think of yourself (and other guys) as a failure if you get turned down by women, and peddling some weird myth of "high value males" who get all the women and apparently you should try to pretend you are. I can guarantee you that, if you're not generally considered successful or attractive, a PUA book won't help matters

    -The two above alone will turn you into a social misfit if you listen to them

    -"with the right effort/being pushy enough, you can have almost any girl you want" - no, you can't, even if you were really "attractive" by almost any measure. A lot of these books seem to suggest that even an unattractive with bad social skills (which reading a PUA book won't bolster much due to above reasons) and no social life can get dates with really attractive girls regularly if he tries, which quite frankly is deluding yourself

    -Confidence in social situations is good, but the kind of stuff these guys peddle (stuff like trying to destroy a girl's self-esteem/touching her when it's not wanted/getting off with her friends in front of her) is obvious to anyone with half a brain, and will make you appear like a creep and weirdo

    -"If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you" - then you need to fix the actual root of the problem, maybe you don't know where you're going in life or more likely you have zero social skills. Nowhere did I say exercise was the only solution. Treating women like crap and adopting a weird attitude towards them won't solve this problem.
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    (Original post by Jackal The)
    See, for some people you're *always* going to be improving, and especially in some cases it will never feel natural and you'll always feel uncomfortable but force yourself to go through with it. The OP is actually giving very good advice in that regard; there's no easy/cheat route and you have to put yourself out there and make yourself to interact with others [as you know, but some don't.] It's certainly better than being alone.

    Personally,Id rather be alone than go through all that palaver just to get a partner.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    Well there's stuff like canned openers, where you pre plan an interesting topic, often asking her opinion on a relationship (probably fictional). If the guy does that without looking weird, there's no reason for you to doubt it. Obviously a "bizarre" neg is a bad neg. One my mate uses with very attractive girls, which is both evil and effective, is to touch his face as if the girl accidently spat as she spoke.

    I don't think it's anything miraculous, the main benefit is making a guy feel he's in control. But there are some good tips in there.
    How is "pre planning" an interesting topic any different from bringing up something interesting in real life?

    Also, any neg that's not "bizarre" will just come across as normal teasing... because it is normal teasing. I tease all my friends regularly in a way that might be seen as "negging", except I'm not trying to pull them. Teasing often breaks the ice and sometimes I do it with people I've just met. So that's nothing new either.

    Obviously having good social skills and knowing how to break the ice will help you be more successful with the opposite sex. But PUA books teach this in a weird way and will probably hurt them more (as to why, read my reply above).

    Also, I highly doubt the "touching his face" thing makes any difference apart from giving him more confidence and being a placebo. There is no actual proof that this stuff works (I'm not counting the amount of PUAs who talk about the "billions of hotties I've banged"). Obviously, some guys who try this stuff will pull girls no doubt, but then they have other stuff that's attractive about them (most probably their looks). The main thing this could possibly add is a bit of confidence, but again that's basic social skills. If I was in a club and a well-built hunny was chatting me up and I was up for it, I'd get with him because he was attractive, not because of his "seduction techniques."

    Finally, "feeling like you're in control" is a cruel delusion TBH. Assuming that you can get with any girl, or almost any girl, is just plain wrong, and continuing to be pushy with someone and not reading their clear body language that they're not interested (like I've seen a lot of guys do) will at best get you sworn at and at worst get you slapped and the bouncer called.

    I think the best way to be "in control" is not to try and change what other people think of you to the extent of trying to manipulate them, which will probably backfire, but take responsibility for and change what you can, i.e. who you actually are (as in my first/second posts).
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    (Original post by Jackal The)
    See, for some people you're *always* going to be improving, and especially in some cases it will never feel natural and you'll always feel uncomfortable but force yourself to go through with it. The OP is actually giving very good advice in that regard; there's no easy/cheat route and you have to put yourself out there and make yourself to interact with others [as you know, but some don't.] It's certainly better than being alone.
    I agree with this.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    What is it that books like the The Game say thats so outlandish?
    Read my above reply.

    They promote a creepy attitude towards women. It's little wonder guys who try that sort of thing get labelled creeps.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    PUA books are definitely not the best way to develop social skills. I agree that they contain some useful info (e.g. how to become more confident), but the problem is that the other stuff they suggest (at least what I've read) will still mess up your social skills.

    As said before, there are some great books on socialising and improving your confidence. PUA books are not one of them. It is noteworthy that they never sell themselves as "how to improve your social skills with people," but rather "how to pull 10000 hotties."

    Examples of BS advice I have seen in those books:

    -it retards your attitude towards the opposite sex by encouraging guys to basically show no respect towards women and banging on about evo psych, how women are "wired to" think etc. (For why evo psych is completely flawed as science, Google it). Not only will this affect the girls you're trying to hit on, but also your female friends generally. I've known guy acquaintances who tried PUA stuff, and I no longer hang out with them 'cause they're obnoxious little creeps with the weirdest attitude towards women.

    -it retards your attitude towards the same sex by encouraging you to think of yourself (and other guys) as a failure if you get turned down by women, and peddling some weird myth of "high value males" who get all the women and apparently you should try to pretend you are. I can guarantee you that, if you're not generally considered successful or attractive, a PUA book won't help matters

    -The two above alone will turn you into a social misfit if you listen to them

    -"with the right effort/being pushy enough, you can have almost any girl you want" - no, you can't, even if you were really "attractive" by almost any measure. A lot of these books seem to suggest that even an unattractive with bad social skills (which reading a PUA book won't bolster much due to above reasons) and no social life can get dates with really attractive girls regularly if he tries, which quite frankly is deluding yourself

    -Confidence in social situations is good, but the kind of stuff these guys peddle (stuff like trying to destroy a girl's self-esteem/touching her when it's not wanted/getting off with her friends in front of her) is obvious to anyone with half a brain, and will make you appear like a creep and weirdo

    -"If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you" - then you need to fix the actual root of the problem, maybe you don't know where you're going in life or more likely you have zero social skills. Nowhere did I say exercise was the only solution. Treating women like crap and adopting a weird attitude towards them won't solve this problem.

    Just asking the obvious question. Not necessarily disagreeing or anything.

    But how then did the original PUAs who were all really really unattractive

    yet also all put these very techniques into practise,manage to pull so many

    beautiful women in your opinion?
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    (Original post by nopenopenope)
    oh but I mean
    oh
    well what
    oh
    okay
    Are you making a misc reference?

    I don't get it. I am disappoint.

    I can confirm, I am n00b.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Just asking the obvious question. Not necessarily disagreeing or anything.

    But how then did the original PUAs who were all really really unattractive

    yetalso all put these very techniques ito practise,manage to pull so many

    beautiful women in your opinion?
    (1) Obviously, the more women you hit on (to the extent of travelling the entire world and going from country to country like one of them did, sad as it seems) the more you'll be successful with

    (2) Being more confident helps too, but like I said that is basic social skills. You do not need a PUA book to make you confident, true confidence comes from how much you actually are worth

    (3)Most importantly - I doubt it's anywhere near what they claim. It probably has as much truth as those best-selling weight loss books that claim to "help you lose 100 pounds in 10 days" with a Photoshopped image on the front. No evidence and proof it works, say what?
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Are you making a misc reference?

    I don't get it. I am disappoint.

    I can confirm, I am n00b.
    no misc reference but aware

    I was pointing out how stupid the post I quoted was. She said that it shouldn't be people's goal in life to be attractive to the opposite sex and then went on to say that OP (you) shouldn't tell people how to live their lives.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Read my above reply.

    They promote a creepy attitude towards women. It's little wonder guys who try that sort of thing get labelled creeps.

    Ive been going to bars and clubs for longer than most people on here and

    Im very unusual in that because I love dancing and can't 'let myself go'when

    Im with someone,Im usually alone and have plenty of time to observe

    human behaviour etc.


    And,its my experience,that the guys who tend to pull in said bars and

    clubs tend to be the kind of guys you refer to as creeps.

    What you dont seem to be allowing for is the fact that just because you

    saw through those guys-having read PUA books and maybe cos you're

    attractive,doesnt mean other women also did!
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    Well, one person can be attractive to someone, but not so for another. I believe there are no equal receipts for everyone how to be attractive.
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    (Original post by AreebWithaHat)
    Biuriful post, I wonder how many will actually take heed of your words though.
    Cheers brah, OP has surely tried to deliver.
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    (Original post by miser)
    I've done it plenty (and I've improved plenty), but it's still very difficult (and I expect it will always be) to make it feel natural.

    Nope, one of the people I'm closest to is the most confident, out-going person I've met. Most of my friends are more extraverted than I am.

    I meant that they never had to read about anything at all. People that do read books and research it are those who're looking for any means possible to improve themselves. It isn't coming naturally to them so they have to piece it together from somewhere.

    I agree that people aren't born being good at socialising, but I think people definitely are born and influenced in early development towards having a disposition that means they are more likely than others to develop the required skills.
    I'm trying to figure out what the problem is here, is it just that you're introverted? Or that you lack confidence? Maybe you'd actually get on better with introverts (just as I get on better with extroverts because I am one)

    Also, what makes you label yourself bad at it? And why are you not saying it feels natural? Just because it doesn't feel natural doesn't mean you're being awkward or others see you as such. You might be shooting yourself in the foot a bit by seeing a problem that isn't there or much of a problem at all?

    As said before, I think reading general books on socialising can help. It just shouldn't be the only thing you do. I guarantee spending 10% of that time putting oneself out there instead would yield better results.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    Completely agree. Very few people are hideous. With the right styling and effort anyone can look at least decent.

    I get so fed up of "uhhhhhhh I'm so ugly" and then "there's no point making an effort because I'm ugly" yes there is you idiot
    Most of us don't have your beauty skillz, but I agree.
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    Am I weird for actually liking skinny - oops, sorry, "puny weakling" - guys then? :K::ashamed2:
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    :sexface: you mirin' the johnson?
    Savin' to my **** bank as we speak. :teehee:
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    (1) Obviously, the more women you hit on (to the extent of travelling the entire world and going from country to country like one of them did, sad as it seems) the more you'll be successful with

    (2) Being more confident helps too, but like I said that is basic social skills. You do not need a PUA book to make you confident, true confidence comes from how much you actually are worth

    (3)Most importantly - I doubt it's anywhere near what they claim. It probably has as much truth as those best-selling weight loss books that claim to "help you lose 100 pounds in 10 days" with a Photoshopped image on the front. No evidence and proof it works, say what?

    Hmmm.

    As far as I know these guys really did pull very large numbers of attractive women using these very techniques.

    There is actually one guy-whether he was a PUA or not,Im not sure, who

    gives excellent advice on how to attract women and Im going to try to

    remember his name as I think he may be of help to guys like miser.
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    (Original post by Катя)
    Am I weird for actually liking skinny - oops, sorry, "puny weakling" - guys then? :K::ashamed2:
    Whoops, didn't mean to offend anyone. Of course people find different things attractive, but I'd say that being in shape/exercising/liking sports is generally considered so. Besides, it builds character.
 
 
 
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