Will society and law and order completely break down in the future? Watch

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#41
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(Original post by nexttime)
Compared to a culture where orgies were standard after-dinner entertainment and homosexuality was actively encouraged for bonding with your fellow soldiers?

I think the only things that have really changed are that we survive more easily and are less dependent on manual labour. Pretty much every other 'back in my day' trend is just wishful thinking.
Greek love wasn't liberalism, it was conservatism. For the Greeks, there was no social stigma attached to it, hence there was no need to view such things as broadening ones horizons. Take the Laconians - their society was militaristic and highly regimented (as well as being founded on two tiers of slavery) - having sex with a young boy was not an expression of modernity or liberal values - but of deep rooted conservatism.

As for the Roman orgies, consider how they came about. In the days of the Republic, Romans were still in their peasant values phase, and Rome was nothing like the Imperial marbled city. The orgies and decadence had not yet come to pass - so when these kind of things came in, decades or centuries later, this would have been an expression of increasing liberal (decadent) values. Yes, it came crashing down, but maybe that suggests that these things are cyclical rather than linear.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#42
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David Cameron has admitted to taking drugs while he was at Eton. Let's not even go into what Boris Johnson would have done. The only reason you see those partying hard, smoking, taking drugs or making fun of terrorist attacks is because they're the ones that you notice. You wouldn't know about the better behaved people because they don't draw attention to themselves.

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Octopus_Garden
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#43
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(Original post by thoyub)
We have a generation of young people who think smoking and drugs are good for you, they think it's ok to make fun of 9/11 victims in nightclubs (and they actively do it).
These people will never be able to become doctors or lawyers or politicians. (not that they even want to) Society is bound to crumble.
What, did we get in a time machine and go back to 1901? In the West, we used to think that cigarettes were good for your lungs. Used.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-the-bad-news/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...omen-slim.html Notice the reference to 50% of women smoking. I don't smoke. My mother did. My grandmother did, and she was born in the 1930s, and she went to university, back in the days when only the rich or really clever went. Clue: not rich here. She passed the 11+ and got a scholarship.

Coca cola used to contain actual cocaine until 1929! http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

if you read this, you might have a more accurate picture of the past. http://www.cracked.com/article_18772...d-at-kids.html

Look, I don't mind you being cynical about society. It's just that you base your ideas on things similar to the square root of*√-1, i.e. imaginary things. Start reading about real history, and have a look at the number of applications for medicine and LLBs. They have not gone down!
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Octopus_Garden
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#44
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(Original post by thoyub)
You only have to walk out of your front door to see that smoking is definitely on the rise. If they know it's bad for you, why do they do it? Are they just thick or do they actually want to die?

Uni students are going into nightclubs with costumes of the burning twin towers. That is hugely disrespectful and they are even winning competitions because of it. Yet another reason to be pessimistic about the future.
If young people can't even show respect for the victims of a terrorist attack, what hope have we got?
And how long have you been walking out of the front door and thinking about the world around you? Four years? Five? You have no historical context to make it in. You need to read more.

They do it, because they're arrogant enough to think that statistics don't apply to them, or they don't believe the stats, because they know some old smokers. Reminds me of you!

Sometimes, they even think they want to die before they get old. Which again, is not new. That is a line from a top ten hit from 1965! It's called My Generation and it was by The Who.


There were only two students and it was a bad taste fancy dress competition. Of course they won!
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thoyub
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#45
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(Original post by Octopus_Garden)
What, did we get in a time machine and go back to 1901? In the West, we used to think that cigarettes were good for your lungs. Used.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-the-bad-news/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...omen-slim.html Notice the reference to 50% of women smoking. I don't smoke. My mother did. My grandmother did, and she was born in the 1930s, and she went to university, back in the days when only the rich or really clever went. Clue: not rich here. She passed the 11+ and got a scholarship.

Coca cola used to contain actual cocaine until 1929! http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

if you read this, you might have a more accurate picture of the past. http://www.cracked.com/article_18772...d-at-kids.html

Look, I don't mind you being cynical about society. It's just that you base your ideas on things similar to the square root of*√-1, i.e. imaginary things. Start reading about real history, and have a look at the number of applications for medicine and LLBs. They have not gone down!
Is this thread back again? I thought it had died out. Funny how that happens...

Yes, I take your points, there was a big smoking culture a long time ago and our grandparents did so more than us.
And as for 50% of young women smoking, in my school it was definitely more than half just like in the 70's. Things haven't changed in that respect.
And if you just walk down the street today, you can't go more than a few meters without some idiot blowing cigarette smoke in your face. You wouldn't think it was any different to the 1930's, if you look at the number of people in public places smoking (and it's hard not to notice because cigarette smoke is distinctive and it tends to go everywhere) you would get a different impression to the statistics you have shown me on many occasions.

I'm pleased that applications for those have gone up, but I hope the trend continues so we can actually have a certain and positive future. The last thing we need is a generation of young people with no ambition and who are content to just spend their lives on the scrapheap and not do anything with their lives. That's the worst case scenario in my opinion.
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thoyub
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#46
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(Original post by Octopus_Garden)
And how long have you been walking out of the front door and thinking about the world around you? Four years? Five? You have no historical context to make it in. You need to read more.

They do it, because they're arrogant enough to think that statistics don't apply to them, or they don't believe the stats, because they know some old smokers. Reminds me of you!

Sometimes, they even think they want to die before they get old. Which again, is not new. That is a line from a top ten hit from 1965! It's called My Generation and it was by The Who.


There were only two students and it was a bad taste fancy dress competition. Of course they won!
I've heard about that song, it was covered by The Zimmers. I personally think that attitude is rather silly, unless they are terrified of being old or something in which case it could be justified.

I was extremely disturbed that two university students could do something as distasteful as that. I believe I read somewhere that they were privately educated too which makes it all the more shocking. Not that I expect any less of students from other backgrounds but you just don't expect something as low as that from two people who went to somewhere like Eton do you? I hope they will have more respect for terrorist attacks in future and have learned a lesson from it. It's definitely not something to be proud of.
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Octopus_Garden
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#47
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(Original post by thoyub)
Is this thread back again? I thought it had died out. Funny how that happens...

Yes, I take your points, there was a big smoking culture a long time ago and our grandparents did so more than us.
And as for 50% of young women smoking, in my school it was definitely more than half just like in the 70's. Things haven't changed in that respect.
And if you just walk down the street today, you can't go more than a few meters without some idiot blowing cigarette smoke in your face. You wouldn't think it was any different to the 1930's, if you look at the number of people in public places smoking (and it's hard not to notice because cigarette smoke is distinctive and it tends to go everywhere) you would get a different impression to the statistics you have shown me on many occasions.

I'm pleased that applications for those have gone up, but I hope the trend continues so we can actually have a certain and positive future. The last thing we need is a generation of young people with no ambition and who are content to just spend their lives on the scrapheap and not do anything with their lives. That's the worst case scenario in my opinion.
Thoyub, it became illegal to smoke inside anyone's workplace in 2007... is that what all this is about? Yes, you definitely see more people smoking outside, ever since the ban came into force. Now it makes sense why you think this. Within weeks of the ban smokers were far more visible, as they adjusted to only beimg able to smoke outside.

But there aren't more smokers! You just can't smoke inside as much. You can only smoke inside private homes, as long as no-one else works there. In fact the ban on smoking inside forced many into giving up or switching to electric cigarettes/vapers. So, you can't smoke in clubs, because people work there, or cafes, or pubs. Offices got rid of their indoor smoking rooms (only a few classes of building are permitted indoor smoking rooms, such as oil rigs). So all the smokers are outside.

At my Mother-in-law's offices, for example, the smoking staff are all outside now every lunch time, so they're far more visible than in 2006. But the number of staff who smoke has actually decreased, as they retire or give up.
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Octopus_Garden
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#48
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#48
(Original post by thoyub)
I've heard about that song, it was covered by The Zimmers. I personally think that attitude is rather silly, unless they are terrified of being old or something in which case it could be justified.

I was extremely disturbed that two university students could do something as distasteful as that. I believe I read somewhere that they were privately educated too which makes it all the more shocking. Not that I expect any less of students from other backgrounds but you just don't expect something as low as that from two people who went to somewhere like Eton do you? I hope they will have more respect for terrorist attacks in future and have learned a lesson from it. It's definitely not something to be proud of.
The point was to be distasteful- it's not like they were too stupid to realise. It was the point. They acknowledged it was bad taste in the first place!

As far as uni students go and insensitivity goes, given that they were sensitive enough to realise that it was bad taste, and would therefore guarantee them the prize, they really can't compete with this from 2008 http://www.theguardian.com/education...ng-a-jew-party Apparently this lot did not realise they were being offensive.
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thoyub
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Octopus_Garden)
Thoyub, it became illegal to smoke inside anyone's workplace in 2007... is that what all this is about? Yes, you definitely see more people smoking outside, ever since the ban came into force. Now it makes sense why you think this. Within weeks of the ban smokers were far more visible, as they adjusted to only beimg able to smoke outside.

But there aren't more smokers! You just can't smoke inside as much. You can only smoke inside private homes, as long as no-one else works there. In fact the ban on smoking inside forced many into giving up or switching to electric cigarettes/vapers. So, you can't smoke in clubs, because people work there, or cafes, or pubs. Offices got rid of their indoor smoking rooms (only a few classes of building are permitted indoor smoking rooms, such as oil rigs). So all the smokers are outside.

At my Mother-in-law's offices, for example, the smoking staff are all outside now every lunch time, so they're far more visible than in 2006. But the number of staff who smoke has actually decreased, as they retire or give up.
I was always wondering why there were an unusual number of smokers that I saw compared to the statistics, maybe that's the solution. If the ban hadn't come into effect, I probably wouldn't notice as much. I guess the statistics may not be being fixed after all, great news.
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ArtofWonder
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#50
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It's pretty inconceivable. It's like we've been thrown back to the pre-historic age of the world.
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WGR
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#51
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People are always predicting doom but the fact of the matter is that society has been constantly improving over time.
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