What is a decent salary?
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Original post by keromedic
So you don't agree that an absence of resources leads to an increase in criminal activity?
It appeared to me that the op was justifying it.
I wonder how many people responding with what I'd suggest are 'rather excessive' amounts are describing their version of 'decent', or describing what they think OP would require to live as he described, at the age of 21. And how many of them actually have experience of independent living.
Outside London, you could do what you describe on about £18,000 or even less in some areas. £1,254 a month after tax if you were happy to share a property and didn't need a Mercedes, a penthouse, £60 phone contracts and full Sky TV to consider your conditions 'decent'. Circa £650 on housing, utilities, home insurance, council tax and phone/Internet. Shop reasonably for food and it'll be £150 a month at the most. If you can't get car running costs, a bit put aside in savings, a few nights out and clothing from £450 a month there's something up. Obviously you're not going to be living like a lord, but it's 'decent'. It's an acceptable standard. You're not going to be destitute. People do what you've described on much less, but they have to scrimp a bit more. You won't be living in a mansion, but for a reasonable C2/D existence, that's more than enough. People don't arrive into the working world in their early 20s earning above the average salary unless they're very fortunate.
By the same note, 'comfortable', not having to worry too much about money, would be around £21,000. Outside Londinium and central areas of some other major cities. I don't live in London but from what I've seen/read, it's rather more expensive.
My numbers are a bit high - I could probably do what you describe on little more than minimum wage if I had to - but I appreciate that housing can be pricey in other areas apart from London, there's an allowance for rainy day money, and I wasn't sure if you already had the car or needed to pay for that too.
Outside London, you could do what you describe on about £18,000 or even less in some areas. £1,254 a month after tax if you were happy to share a property and didn't need a Mercedes, a penthouse, £60 phone contracts and full Sky TV to consider your conditions 'decent'. Circa £650 on housing, utilities, home insurance, council tax and phone/Internet. Shop reasonably for food and it'll be £150 a month at the most. If you can't get car running costs, a bit put aside in savings, a few nights out and clothing from £450 a month there's something up. Obviously you're not going to be living like a lord, but it's 'decent'. It's an acceptable standard. You're not going to be destitute. People do what you've described on much less, but they have to scrimp a bit more. You won't be living in a mansion, but for a reasonable C2/D existence, that's more than enough. People don't arrive into the working world in their early 20s earning above the average salary unless they're very fortunate.
By the same note, 'comfortable', not having to worry too much about money, would be around £21,000. Outside Londinium and central areas of some other major cities. I don't live in London but from what I've seen/read, it's rather more expensive.
My numbers are a bit high - I could probably do what you describe on little more than minimum wage if I had to - but I appreciate that housing can be pricey in other areas apart from London, there's an allowance for rainy day money, and I wasn't sure if you already had the car or needed to pay for that too.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Reue
It appeared to me that the op was justifying it.
I see..
Original post by geoking
Your math is off. Don't forget PAYE, pension, student loans etc. Basically, remove a third of your income for after-tax income. Then remove £450 - 550 for rent, 100 for council tax, 30 for your phone, 10 - 35 for internet/cable, 40 for gas and elec, 25 for water and 180 - 220 for food. Then start adding insurance for home and car, petrol, the car itself...
Not in shared accommodation. Especially where I live (affluent areas of Newcastle), or in a number of other northern cities. £200 - £400 a month in rent and perhaps £40 - 60 a month in council tax. Especially if sharing, say, a three or four bedroom house with two or three other people.
And, not that I'm being picky, but since when did we become American and deny mathematics is plural (I'm assuming you aren't American). I never used to come across it in this country until I joined TSR.
Original post by johnsamuels
How do people on minimum wage live? they earn £12300 a year, after tax thats £11200, thats just over £930 a month.
Interestingly there is a thread asking exactly this which has been around for a few weeks now.
By claiming Working Tax Credits and, if they qualify, certain other in work benefits such as housing and council tax benefit (the amount is likely to be small, though), and not have as many luxuries. It can't be expected that a low paid worker can have luxuries such as more expensive housing, or even a car.
Original post by yl95
40k-45k imo
You realise that the average salary is (or was) around the 22k mark? The OP isn't asking to be particularly affluent and have a huge amount to save. That sort of salary will more than cater for the basic luxuries a 20 something with no dependents needs and still leave £10k or more left over.
30k is surely decent by anyone's standards, unless perhaps living in the most expensive areas of London. It's not fantastic, but it's certainly above average.
Original post by River85
Not in shared accommodation. Especially where I live (affluent areas of Newcastle), or in a number of other northern cities. £200 - £400 a month in rent and perhaps £40 - 60 a month in council tax. Especially if sharing, say, a three or four bedroom house with two or three other people.
And, not that I'm being picky, but since when did we become American and deny mathematics is plural (I'm assuming you aren't American). I never used to come across it in this country until I joined TSR.
30k is surely decent by anyone's standards, unless perhaps living in the most expensive areas of London. It's not fantastic, but it's certainly above average.
And, not that I'm being picky, but since when did we become American and deny mathematics is plural (I'm assuming you aren't American). I never used to come across it in this country until I joined TSR.
30k is surely decent by anyone's standards, unless perhaps living in the most expensive areas of London. It's not fantastic, but it's certainly above average.
Gah, bad habit. Maths.
Anyway those prices are rediculosuly low. If you want to live down south, where the majority of work is, the prices I gave are for okay shared accomodation. Want to live on your own near (1hr 30 mins on train) London? £700 a month in rent, minimum, no bills included.
30k wouldn't go far down south, and im not even talking about London.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by russellsteapot
I wonder how many people responding with what I'd suggest are 'rather excessive' amounts are describing their version of 'decent', or describing what they think OP would require to live as he described, at the age of 21. And how many of them actually have experience of independent living.
Outside London, you could do what you describe on about £18,000 or even less in some areas. £1,254 a month after tax if you were happy to share a property and didn't need a Mercedes, a penthouse, £60 phone contracts and full Sky TV to consider your conditions 'decent'. Circa £650 on housing, utilities, home insurance, council tax and phone/Internet. Shop reasonably for food and it'll be £150 a month at the most. If you can't get car running costs, a bit put aside in savings, a few nights out and clothing from £450 a month there's something up. Obviously you're not going to be living like a lord, but it's 'decent'. It's an acceptable standard. You're not going to be destitute. People do what you've described on much less, but they have to scrimp a bit more. You won't be living in a mansion, but for a reasonable C2/D existence, that's more than enough. People don't arrive into the working world in their early 20s earning above the average salary unless they're very fortunate.
By the same note, 'comfortable', not having to worry too much about money, would be around £21,000. Outside Londinium and central areas of some other major cities. I don't live in London but from what I've seen/read, it's rather more expensive.
My numbers are a bit high - I could probably do what you describe on little more than minimum wage if I had to - but I appreciate that housing can be pricey in other areas apart from London, there's an allowance for rainy day money, and I wasn't sure if you already had the car or needed to pay for that too.
Outside London, you could do what you describe on about £18,000 or even less in some areas. £1,254 a month after tax if you were happy to share a property and didn't need a Mercedes, a penthouse, £60 phone contracts and full Sky TV to consider your conditions 'decent'. Circa £650 on housing, utilities, home insurance, council tax and phone/Internet. Shop reasonably for food and it'll be £150 a month at the most. If you can't get car running costs, a bit put aside in savings, a few nights out and clothing from £450 a month there's something up. Obviously you're not going to be living like a lord, but it's 'decent'. It's an acceptable standard. You're not going to be destitute. People do what you've described on much less, but they have to scrimp a bit more. You won't be living in a mansion, but for a reasonable C2/D existence, that's more than enough. People don't arrive into the working world in their early 20s earning above the average salary unless they're very fortunate.
By the same note, 'comfortable', not having to worry too much about money, would be around £21,000. Outside Londinium and central areas of some other major cities. I don't live in London but from what I've seen/read, it's rather more expensive.
My numbers are a bit high - I could probably do what you describe on little more than minimum wage if I had to - but I appreciate that housing can be pricey in other areas apart from London, there's an allowance for rainy day money, and I wasn't sure if you already had the car or needed to pay for that too.
I agree with this.
Original post by russellsteapot
Outside London, you could do what you describe on about £18,000 or even less in some areas. £1,254 a month after tax if you were happy to share a property and didn't need a Mercedes, a penthouse, £60 phone contracts and full Sky TV to consider your conditions 'decent'. Circa £650 on housing, utilities, home insurance, council tax and phone/Internet. Shop reasonably for food and it'll be £150 a month at the most. If you can't get car running costs, a bit put aside in savings, a few nights out and clothing from £450 a month there's something up. Obviously you're not going to be living like a lord, but it's 'decent'. It's an acceptable standard. You're not going to be destitute. People do what you've described on much less, but they have to scrimp a bit more. You won't be living in a mansion, but for a reasonable C2/D existence, that's more than enough. People don't arrive into the working world in their early 20s earning above the average salary unless they're very fortunate0
Outside London, you could do what you describe on about £18,000 or even less in some areas. £1,254 a month after tax if you were happy to share a property and didn't need a Mercedes, a penthouse, £60 phone contracts and full Sky TV to consider your conditions 'decent'. Circa £650 on housing, utilities, home insurance, council tax and phone/Internet. Shop reasonably for food and it'll be £150 a month at the most. If you can't get car running costs, a bit put aside in savings, a few nights out and clothing from £450 a month there's something up. Obviously you're not going to be living like a lord, but it's 'decent'. It's an acceptable standard. You're not going to be destitute. People do what you've described on much less, but they have to scrimp a bit more. You won't be living in a mansion, but for a reasonable C2/D existence, that's more than enough. People don't arrive into the working world in their early 20s earning above the average salary unless they're very fortunate0
Just to illustrate this further, I live in an affluent area of Newcastle. It's still Newcastle nevertheless so reasonable cost of living.
I currently work as a Community Enabler (minimum wage, 20 hours a week) and have a Zero Hours Graduate job (Educational Support Worker, usually £8.79 an hour for me but can be less for those doing academic support). With Working Tax Credits and a small amount of housing benefit (£14 a week) this can give me an annual income of about 15k.
I can get by fairly comfortably. A broad budget is: -
Food £50
Clothes £20
Toiletries £10 (a lot, but I buy expensive stuff like the Sensodyne fluoride mouthrinse)
Rent and council tax £50
Going out/Hobbies £50
Bills £20
Admittedly I don't own or run a car, and public transport doesn't cost me anything, but considering I have £90 a week left over most weeks (sometimes more) I can probably afford to buy a second hand one and run it if need be.
Ideally I'd want to live in slightly better housing, perhaps non-shared, in which case I could do with earning 18k or up to 20k to makes things that little bit more comfortable. By this stage I still don't even need to repay any of my student loan, as my actual salary still isn't above the threshold.
Note I don't intend to live like this forever. It's just for a couple of years before travelling and either returning to university or getting myself a job in the charity sector (where I might still only earn no more than 25k for a number of years, and probably face higher living costs
).I know this forum is very middle class and people will look at what their parents earn and use this to judge, perhaps thinking a 30k salary is a lot more common than it actually is.
I also don't think one or two people actually read the OP's post properly and just stated what they think are good salaries that would allow them to go on holidays and save up.
There are a couple of additional items to consider. The big one is cost of travel to work. Prices are now outrageous. And it is paid out of already taxed income. Next up if you are in a suitable job for a graduate with ambitions you need to be decently dressed. Thirdly consider trivial items like lunch money, Starbucks etc. 30k these days goes no where if you live anywhere near London.
Original post by geoking
Gah, bad habit. Maths.
Anyway those prices are rediculosuly low. If you want to live down south, where the majority of work is
Anyway those prices are rediculosuly low. If you want to live down south, where the majority of work is
I'm not denying they will be low by London/southern standards. I'm just illustrating that there is variation across the country. Admittedly that wasn't clear in my post, but I intended it to be.
And there can still be a plentiful supply of jobs in the north. It just varies hugely by sector. I'm looking at entering the charity sector and so many head offices of national charities are in or around London.
Generally speaking there'll never be as many as there are in and around London. But ultimately so many want to live in London, though not necessarily elsewhere in the south, so opportunities exist.
Aberdeen has its oil industry (and probably some high living costs), Newcastle and Sunderland have a decent IT and off-shore engineering opportunities (and even non-graduate roles, such as call centres and sales, aren't difficult to find and still provide a comfortable enough salary). Newcastle is not too bad for the heritage sector and arts either (even if not London standards). Liverpool too. Leeds has a strong legal and financial sector. Manchester's a big city...
But see my post above about how easy it can be for someone to leave what's still a relatively comfortable life on 20k in Newcastle, and a good number of other northern cities, I wager.
the prices I gave are for okay shared accomodation. Want to live on your own near (1hr 30 mins on train) London? £700 a month in rent, minimum, no bills included.
Absolutely. as mentioned I'm looking to enter the charity sector. One of my recent interviews was for an educational and employment charity in North Kensington. The salary was 18k. I'm well aware that living on 18k,even in (and around) a relatively deprived part of Kensington/London, would have been a struggle.
30k wouldn't go far down south, and im not even talking about London.
Meh, my brother probably earned a little over 30k when first moving to London (now probably earns 50k). He certainly had a comfortable enough life. Saved enough money to travel and go to music festivals, as well as save (and eventually got himself on the property ladder by getting one of those flats you part buy and then rent out another room to cover the rest of the mortgage).
Admittedly he did have some savings from when he worked in Manchester for a couple of years beforehand, and perhaps when he was working while doing his degree in Sheffield. But I don't think a huge amount. Besides, he did a lot of travelling and socialising, and continues to do so.
He could be living up north and, if not quite earning as much, for are still opportunities. He's a Java Developer and on Tyneside we do have success stories such as Sage who were recruiting and offering the same starting salaries as some of those in London.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Casprules
30k is decent if you want a nice phone.
priorities
In London, probably about 40-50k pre-tax if you want any hope of saving for a mortgage. Probably about 25-30k for the rest of the UK.
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Original post by Old_Simon
30k these days goes no where if you live anywhere near London.
Berkshire here. 30k goes plenty.
Original post by Reue
Wish you'd have put that at the start of the post so I could then ignore anything further 
Well ignore my ridiculous spending on going out...you could save £500 a month and that isn't even being particularly tight with money. So that is £6000 a year, that is good mortgage savings over 5 years. It would just mean no car, no holidays, no festivals and being boring....so you can have lots of money to do stuff when you're in your 60's and 70's and cannot be arsed to do anything.
Plus people I know with a mortgage aren't generally that happy...they boast about having a mortgage and then complain about having no money to have fun. I think that is where the gap comes....in the 20-25k range you could get a mortgage it would just make your life worst...you need 35k+ so you can have the mortgage and still spend your money pretty freely.
Deposit is the hard part, but most middle-class people(most on TSR) will get that given to them by parents or grandparents. I am middle-class and have fairly well off parents but I am guessing they won't give me the money for it because I have a lot of brothers and sisters and they would all complain and want the money and the hit would be like £200k. Plus I hate mortgages in the UK, house prices are totally inflated to a stupid level, I would begrudge my house rather than cherish it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Growing up with just my dad on close to minimum wage i'd be happy and comfortable on just a graduate salary.
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Original post by Mr_Sinister
..
I think your figures are off and very pessimistic, also rather short-sighted with regards to pension and retirement.
I agree that having a mortgage on 20-25k can be a challenge, I don't believe it would eat up all spare social funding.
house prices are inflated. However rents are also too. At least with a mortgage you are slowly paying off the capital rather than paying off someone elses'.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by geoking
Hence why rent is such a problem in London and needs to be controlled.
Or just paid by people who can afford it.
The secret to this, is to move abroad to a country where the cost of living is a HELL of a lot lower. My Dad lives and works in Vietnam and I plan to move there or somewhere close like Malaysia, after a few years of work experience in the UK. In most cases I will be payed significantly less overall but the cost of living in these countries is a fraction of what it is in the UK, so that more than makes up for it. I could make half as much money as I would make in the UK and I'd live like a bloody king! Rent, food etc is nothing. AND there is no shame in not having a car in Vietnam because 99.9% of the population ride around on motorbikes. Way more fun and interesting than a car, you pay no insurance, the bikes are MUCH cheaper to buy, and the fuel costs (per litre) are a fraction of what they are in the UK AND the bikes are in many cases several times more economical than a car AND if they break down they are easy (and cost a fraction of the price) to fix. Of course, there will be a learning curve at the beginning where they rip you off for everything you get, but once you get past this, you are sitting pretty. It's a no brainer. You want to live well? Go abroad.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Or just paid by people who can afford it.
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