Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now

Caroline Lucas found not guilty at fracking protests - CPS and government failed Watch

    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Source?
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...green_elephant
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    This link doesn't provide evidence that renewable energy is necessarily to blame for the higher level of pollution. The article says that the increased CO2 emmissions have come from an increased use of coal; coal has become cheaper, and is thus making the nuclear/gas alternative less economically viable.

    It is true that Germany has seen a rise in their emmission of CO2, although the article still says the following: ''Germany has reduced its greenhouse gas output 25.5 percent since 1990, exceeding its commitments under the Kyoto Protocol''. That sounds pretty amazing regardless of what appear to be short term increases, don't you think?

    Thank you, but the page won't let me read the article!
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    This link doesn't provide evidence that renewable energy is necessarily to blame for the higher level of pollution. The article says that the increased CO2 emmissions have come from an increased use of coal; coal has become cheaper, and is thus making the nuclear/gas alternative less economically viable.

    It is true that Germany has seen a rise in their emmission of CO2, although the article still says the following: ''Germany has reduced its greenhouse gas output 25.5 percent since 1990, exceeding its commitments under the Kyoto Protocol''. That sounds pretty amazing regardless of what appear to be short term increases, don't you think?



    Thank you, but the page won't let me read the article!
    http://www.dw.de/us-investors-worry-...icy/a-17507945

    http://www.policy-network.net/pno_de...pes-powerhouse

    Basically, Germany tried to switch to all renewables. It's put prices through the roof and is negatively impacting their economy
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    http://www.dw.de/us-investors-worry-...icy/a-17507945

    http://www.policy-network.net/pno_de...pes-powerhouse

    Basically, Germany tried to switch to all renewables. It's put prices through the roof and is negatively impacting their economy
    Two very interesting reads, thank you for sharing.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Two very interesting reads, thank you for sharing.
    Renewables have their place, but sadly they're unreliable and expensive.

    It was in the news a few months ago that the EU is moving away from its renewables targets as they're realising that they are unachievable and impacting on the economy.

    The Ukraine issue is now impacting europes imports if Russian gas .

    That's likely to result in an increase push in nuclear and Fracked gas
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    This link doesn't provide evidence that renewable energy is necessarily to blame for the higher level of pollution. The article says that the increased CO2 emmissions have come from an increased use of coal; coal has become cheaper, and is thus making the nuclear/gas alternative less economically viable.

    It is true that Germany has seen a rise in their emmission of CO2, although the article still says the following: ''Germany has reduced its greenhouse gas output 25.5 percent since 1990, exceeding its commitments under the Kyoto Protocol''. That sounds pretty amazing regardless of what appear to be short term increases, don't you think?



    Thank you, but the page won't let me read the article!
    Well I'd say it splits down to the increase in coal being due to the closure of nuclear plants while the increased prices are due to green tariffs to fund renewables that aren't independently viable.

    Oh, and I used my elite hacking skills to get the text of the other article if you want to read it:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Germany is in the middle of one of the most audacious and ambitious experiments a major industrial economy has ever attempted: To swear off nuclear power and run Europe's largest economy essentially on wind and solar power.
    There's just one problem -- it's not really working.
    The energy transformation, known as "Energiewende," was meant to give Germany an energy sector that would be cleaner and more competitive, fueling an export-driven economy and helping to slash greenhouse-gas emissions. On that count, the policy has floundered: German emissions are rising, not falling, because the country is burning increasing amounts of dirty coal. And electricity costs, already high, have kept rising, making life difficult for small and medium-sized businesses that compete against rivals with cheaper energy.
    Less than three years after Berlin embraced its new energy policy, a shifting global energy landscape is causing a rethink of the Energiewende inside and outside Germany. Business groups representing small and medium firms wring their hands over Germany's high energy costs while Brussels frets that Berlin is subsidizing big German industry with rebates on inflated energy bills. Foreign leaders, and plenty of pundits, blame the Energiewende for Europe's inability to answer Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Utilities, meanwhile, are bleeding money, slashing investments, and shutting down power plants.
    German politicians, meanwhile, can only look across the Atlantic and shake their heads. Washington has no formal or comprehensive energy or climate policy, but the United States' natural gas bonanza has led to cheaper power prices and falling greenhouse-gas emissions in recent years. Berlin has reams of pro-renewable energy policies, but prices and emissions are climbing. Germany's energy dilemma is particularly important now, because the European Union is trying to sort out its own climate and energy policies through 2030. The choice, essentially, is whether the Europe wants to be more like Germany, or less.
    Dieter Helm, an energy economist at Oxford University who has advised the European Commission, said German leaders assumed that oil and gas prices were going to continue to increase, which meant that developing cheap supplies of renewable energy would give their companies a competitive advantage over the United States. That assumption has turned out to be almost entirely wrong. Flat oil prices, America's shale gas revolution, and the stubbornly high cost of renewable energy have instead left German firms reliant on more expensive forms of energy than their U.S.-based competitors.
    "Now it's Europe who has expensive energy and America which has cheaper energy," Helm said.
    Germany launched the Energiewende project in earnest in the summer of 2011, a few months after the disaster at Japan's Fukushima nuclear power station sealed the fate of Germany's fleet of nuclear reactors, which were providing about one-quarter of the country's total electricity. The German government decided to close down all the nuclear power plants by 2022 and replace them with renewable energy facilities. The official goal is the most ambitious among big countries: to have renewables provide 80 percent of the country's energy by 2050. Germany's green push has been building for decades, fueled by the continued electoral strength of its environmentalist political parties. Even today, Energiewende enjoys broad popular support in Germany: Over the weekend, tens of thousands of people took to the streets across the country to demonstrate in favor of renewable energy.
    "I think it is going to continue somehow, because it has a long-standing tradition," said Kirsten Westphal, an energy expert at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs. She said that Russia's energy bullying of Europe could even provide more support for Germany's embrace of renewable energy, which would give Berlin a way of reducing the country's dependence on imported Russian natural gas.
    By some measures, Germany's green energy push has actually been quite successful. It has more solar power capacity installed than any other country, and the third-most wind power capacity in the world, even though it's not a particularly sunny or windy country. Renewable energy so far this year has provided more than one-quarter of Germany's electricity, compared with about 13 percent for the United States, and is the only source of power with year-on-year growth. Champions of Energiewende also point to the hundreds of thousands of jobs they say that the renewable-energy push has created, contrasting Germany's healthy growth and employment record since the financial crisis with blighted neighbors.
    But it hasn't come cheaply. Renewable energy has been pushed so relentlessly, in a country not blessed with renewable resources, that the bill is getting enormous. This year, German consumers will spend about 23 billion euros propping up solar and wind power, up from 13 billion euros just two years ago. That comes through a government-mandated surcharge on electricity bills for residential consumers and small and medium-sized businesses. While the government once said the surcharge would never exceed 35 euros per megawatt hour, this year it will top 60 euros per megawatt hour. Big, energy-intensive firms are exempt from the renewables surcharge, which is the reason that European Union competition officials are looking into the question of unfair state aid for those firms. Meanwhile, regular households and small and medium sized businesses have little choice but to pay the higher bills.
    That, in turn, appears to have taken its toll on an economy that lives and dies by exports. IHS, the energy consultancy, said in a recent report that German energy policies have cost the German economy 52 billion euros since 2008 because of the impact higher electricity prices have had on smaller firms. Sigmar Gabriel, Germany's energy minister, and the man in charge of making the Energiewende happen, raised eyebrows earlier this year when he warned of the risk of "de-industrialization" if Germany continues on its current path.
    So what can Germany do? In the near term, the country is trying to rein in the runaway cost of renewable energy by scaling back subsidies and focusing on the most cost-effective forms of renewable energy. That means forgetting grandiose dreams of offshore wind farms in the Baltic powering industry in the Ruhr.
    "It's not a make or break moment, but it's certainly an issue of slowing things down," said Westphal.
    Germany is expected to present the detailed proposals for the new renewable-support scheme in April. At the same time, Berlin is trying to figure out how to spread the cost of the Energiewende more fairly among consumers and businesses, without kneecapping the industries that drive the economy.
    "Policymakers are trying to find a balance: They don't want to make industry uncompetitive, but on the other hand, the cost and the speed of the renewable-energy deployment exceeded everybody's expectations," said Anna Czajkowska, a European policy specialist at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, an energy consultancy.
    But more broadly, calls to jettison or fundamentally change the German energy transformation are falling on deaf ears. Some, such as energy guru Daniel Yergin and IHS, call for Germany to embrace domestic natural gas, as in the United States, as a way to curb emissions, shave energy costs, and bolster economic growth and employment. But Germany, unlike some Eastern European countries such as Romania, Poland, and Ukraine, has been loath to seriously consider hydraulic fracturing as part of its energy policy. Indeed, for more than a decade, natural gas has been an afterthought in German energy policy, despite evidence that coal is becoming the biggest beneficiary of the current German energy mix. Even the prospect of U.S. natural gas exports to Europe only summoned a lukewarm response this month from German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
    Others, including Dieter Helm, wonder if nuclear power will regain favor, given both the cost of the current energy transition and Germany's dependence on imported Russian gas (and coal). But unlike Japan, which is on course to restart some of its nuclear reactors just three years after Fukushima, there appears to be little political appetite in Germany for nukes.
    "Most of German society supports the phase-out of nuclear power, and deciding to change course would really be against the will of the majority of the population," said Czajkowska.
    Instead, there are other options on the table. They run the gamut from reforming the electricity market to make it worthwhile for Germany's big power companies such as RWE and EON to keep running the power plants that provide base load power, to improving energy connections between European countries.
    One of the biggest props to German hopes, though, is the one least likely to materialize: wholesale reform of the European emissions-trading scheme, which slaps a price tag on emissions of carbon dioxide, and which is meant to make dirty energy (like coal) less attractive than cleaner energy (like gas and wind). Since its inception, the European carbon market has been plagued by over supply: simply put, polluting pays. And that means that, for now, dirty coal is becoming more important in Germany, and makes more economic sense than natural gas.
    "From a climate change point of view, Germany is perceived as the 'green man' of Europe, but it's actually the 'dirty man' of Europe," Helm said.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    Well, the CPS did. The Government didn't have any input on it. This isn't North Korea.
    If you think the police are genuinely independent of the government in this country (or the prosecution authorities) then think again. The police in the UK are very responsive to the Home Office and Chief Constables often seem to see themselves as representatives of big business and the government, as does the government. The CPS show time and again that they are influenced by government views.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Renewables have their place, but sadly they're unreliable and expensive.
    In the long term, we have no option but to switch to renewables, because of climate change and fossil fuels running out. And renewable energy sources are becoming more efficient and competitive.

    For example, a new design of solar panel is currently being tested out in the USA which could be much more efficient than existing designs.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RFowler)
    In the long term, we have no option but to switch to renewables, because of climate change and fossil fuels running out. And renewable energy sources are becoming more efficient and competitive.

    For example, a new design of solar panel is currently being tested out in the USA which could be much more efficient than existing designs.
    I'll believe all that when I see it.

    I'm undecided on climate change as so far every prediction I've heard hasn't come true, and although fossil fuels will eventually run out I doubt that will be in either my lifetime or the life time of several generations after I'm gone.

    I'm a huge believer in nuclear. Reliable and zero emissions.

    Either way, were a long way off renewables being a 100% solution. I'd rather move towards the right direction than try and get to the end destination in one painful step.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    If you think the police are genuinely independent of the government in this country (or the prosecution authorities) then think again. The police in the UK are very responsive to the Home Office and Chief Constables often seem to see themselves as representatives of big business and the government, as does the government. The CPS show time and again that they are influenced by government views.
    I'm thinking again about it and is have to agree with Libs on that one. The police are Independant.

    If you really think that somebody in white hall used the police to silence Caroline Lucas may I suggest you spend this Easter weekend fashioning a tin foil hat from tin foil.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    This is excellent. Caudrilla, which is being used by Big Gas and Oil to test the water for fracking in the UK
    This isn't accurate. What's stopping widespread shale gas production in the UK at the moment is the market, which doesn't want expensive fracked gas when it can have cheaper conventional gas. Several leaders of Big Oil have already said that they have no interest in the UK shale gas.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I'm thinking again about it and is have to agree with Libs on that one. The police are Independant.
    That's just a naive view.

    The police may (sometimes) appear to be independent in this country, but they aren't - Chief Constables used to be appointed with Home Office approval and effectively 'reported in' to the Home Office. This has theoretically changed with the move to Police Commissioners and the position of Mayors in some cities, but there are still many routes by which governmental pressure can be exerted on the police, not least financial. ACPO also controls many policing issues and that often appears to be close to the Home Office.

    The supposed political independence of the police can be seen for the farce it is in the context of subversive undercover police officers in the recently exposed cases, who did things like instigate riots and even wrote the famous London Greenpeace leaflet against McDonalds! For all we know they then went on to help McDonalds in their libel action. The police serve corporate and governmental interests primarily.

    The CPS are directly part of government and there is no true independence of prosecution in the UK, only the persistent pretense that there is. A classic example of how this works in practice is the now emerging Cyril Smith case. Private Eye has reported today that 144 separate sex abuse complaints were made to the police about the Liberal MP when he was in office. The prosecution authorities constantly rejected police efforts to prosecute him. This was at a time when Liberal votes were crucial to keep the government in office.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 19, 2014
Poll
Should MenACWY vaccination be compulsory at uni?
General election 2017 on TSR
Register to vote

Registering to vote?

Check out our guide for everything you need to know

Manifesto snapshots

Manifesto Snapshots

All you need to know about the 2017 party manifestos

Party Leader questions

Party Leader Q&A

Ask political party leaders your questions

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.