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matchu
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Platocrates)
Someone has clearly lost the ability to read.

May I direct you to the first post?

Having given you the benefit of the doubt, I looked again at your first post.

But oh, aren't you so witty.

Again;

What do you hope to acheive?
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Alan Smithee
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#42
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#42
(Original post by groovy_moose)
How so?
I too intend too read philosophy, but i don't see how that makes me any more or less culturally aware than the next person. That is an entirely unfounded and prejudiced comment coming from someone who was complaining of the same trweatment earlier this thread.
What has philosophy (in its most abstract sense) ever done for multiculturalism?

Sociology on the other hand...

Anyway Helenia, lock this thread if you will...I just wish to God all the internet loudmouths/haters were so verbal in real life...
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shady lane
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Helenia)
I don't think you can really compare the UK and US in terms of representation of blacks in the upper echelons of academia. Firstly, the US has a much higher percentage of black people in their population (~14% compared with about 2% in the UK), so their culture, although oppressed and segregated for a long time, is a much stronger driving force than here. Secondly, the US has had a significant black population for MUCH longer than the UK - they've had blacks living there for over 2 centuries (basically most of the history of the country) whereas the vast majority of ethnic minority immigration in the UK has taken place within the last 50 years. So it's hardly a surprise that there isn't as much integration here.

Things take a long time to change in academia. There are still comparatively very few women in high positions in universities, and there is STILL evidence that the selection procedure for Chairs etc is biassed against them, despite the fact that at undergraduate level, the playing field is (finally) much more level. One can only hope that over time more and more women will work their way up into faculties etc. This is the way it also has to happen with any ethnic minority, I think - you can't just expect them to recruit someone just because of their colour, in order to appear balanced.

I'm afraid I know little to nothing about the kind of black history that Platocrates is referring to, but the fact is that Oxford and Cambridge have developed as bastions of excellence in many areas, and right from the start, Classical Greek and Rome and their history has been one of them. As the study of history expanded, so I would presume would the range of subjects covered, but given where the origins of study in the university lie, it's hardly suprising that more time has been spent on Europe than other areas.
Yes Helenia that was my whole point. If Platocrates wants to study black history he should go to the US because the UK doesn't really teach it. It's not just an Oxbridge problem. There aren't enough black people in the UK for any good university to feel compelled to offer black history.

I think the fact that the African Studies library at Oxford is called Rhodes House, named after one of the most brutal racists and a subimperialist, says it all.
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Alan Smithee
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#44
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#44
(Original post by shady lane)

I think the fact that the African Studies library at Oxford is called Rhodes House, named after one of the most brutal racists and a subimperialist, says it all.
Jah know.
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shady lane
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Platocrates)
What has philosophy (in its most abstract sense) ever done for multiculturalism?

Sociology on the other hand...

Anyway Helenia, lock this thread if you will...I just wish to God all the internet loudmouths/haters were so verbal in real life...
I took one philosophy course, in which a student explained that non-white people do not have philosophy. The lecturer seemed to agree. That was the end for me.
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Alan Smithee
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#46
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#46
(Original post by shady lane)
I took one philosophy course, in which a student explained that non-white people do not have philosophy. The lecturer seemed to agree. That was the end for me.
LMAO...I swear, some people need to go and read about the ancient Egyptians and the Philosophy of that period.
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groovy_moose
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#47
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#47
May i suggest that perhaps it wasn't a very good philosophy course...?
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Jigglypuff
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Platocrates)
What has philosophy (in its most abstract sense) ever done for multiculturalism?

Sociology on the other hand...

Anyway Helenia, lock this thread if you will...I just wish to God all the internet loudmouths/haters were so verbal in real life...
Well according to some philosophers, black people (along with white people of course) don't even EXIST. Seriously though, do you actually think the whole of the Cambridge philosophy will be abstract? Don't focus on one part of philosophy (abstract philosophy) then. And anyway, I got the impression that sociology analyses society, as opposed to setting out to change it. And if you're referring to me, I'm not an internet loudmouth/hater (you need to get over this 'you're all xenophobes if you disagree with me or don't see my issues as important' problem). I'd say you were an 'internet loudmouth' if anyone- you spend a lot of time on TSR in general being a 'troll' or attempting to cause controversy. You need to get out more.
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Alan Smithee
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Jigglypuff)
Well according to some philosophers, black people (along with white people of course) don't even EXIST. Seriously though, do you actually think the whole of the Cambridge philosophy will be abstract? Don't focus on one part of philosophy (abstract philosophy) then. And anyway, I got the impression that sociology analyses society, as opposed to setting out to change it. And if you're referring to me, I'm not an internet loudmouth/hater (you need to get over this 'you're all xenophobes if you disagree with me or don't see my issues as important' problem). I'd say you were an 'internet loudmouth' if anyone- you spend a lot of time on TSR in general being a 'troll' or attempting to cause controversy. You need to get out more.
If trolling is not being a conformist...then I am a troll. I am also an iconoclast/heretic.

Give yourself a gold star, you clever being, you.
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groovy_moose
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#50
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#50
What has philosophy (in its most abstract sense) ever done for multiculturalism?

Sociology on the other hand...
why does it it have to do anything for multiculturalism? That's not it's aim... I certainly don't think it has had a detrimental effect on multiculturalism. What's music, town planning, english, medicine, vets, engineering, classics............. ever done for multiculturalism?
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Alan Smithee
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#51
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#51
(Original post by groovy_moose)
why does it it have to do anything for multiculturalism? That's not it's aim... I certainly don't think it has had a detrimental effect on multiculturalism. What's music, town planning, english, medicine, vets, engineering, classics............. ever done for multiculturalism?
Truculence, truculence...
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groovy_moose
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#52
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#52
Yes Helenia that was my whole point. If Platocrates wants to study black history he should go to the US because the UK doesn't really teach it. It's not just an Oxbridge problem. There aren't enough black people in the UK for any good university to feel compelled to offer black history.




I think the fact that the African Studies library at Oxford is called Rhodes House, named after one of the most brutal racists and a subimperialist, says it all.
Firtsly, yes, exactly, well said.

Secondly, i don't think that a library that i imagine was named years and years ago is a necessarily an accurate reflection of todays society. Yes, it's terrible that all that happened (/happens), but i don't think that by not changing the name of the library that anyone is trying to oppress anyone else
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Alan Smithee
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#53
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#53
(Original post by shady lane)
Yes Helenia that was my whole point. If Platocrates wants to study black history he should go to the US because the UK doesn't really teach it. It's not just an Oxbridge problem. There aren't enough black people in the UK for any good university to feel compelled to offer black history.
However, there is the Centre for Cultural Studies at Birmingham.
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groovy_moose
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#54
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#54
Truculence, truculence...
i have every right to defend my chosen subject from what seem to be entirely unfounded attacks stemming from it. The fact that we may study philosophy really bears no incidence on our cultural awareness, and saying, such as you did, is tantamount to calling us names...:rolleyes: Good argument...

I see that you decided to entirely ignore my suggestion that perhaps you may get further by asking the uni - i was attemptig to be helpful and you just threw petty insults back... ^o)
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groovy_moose
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#55
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#55
if that makes you feels better...
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CamSPSer
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#56
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#56
(Original post by shady lane)
Yes Helenia that was my whole point. If Platocrates wants to study black history he should go to the US because the UK doesn't really teach it. It's not just an Oxbridge problem. There aren't enough black people in the UK for any good university to feel compelled to offer black history.

I think the fact that the African Studies library at Oxford is called Rhodes House, named after one of the most brutal racists and a subimperialist, says it all.
There are colleges named after or founded by people who persecuted other people of other religions at oxbridge. SHould they all rename themseleves or disband in penintence?
The Rhodes Library is owned by the Rhodes Trust, an organistaion which has along with the Nelson Mandal foundation. in 2004 he was voted 56th greatest South African. Now South Africa is no longer dominated by the English and Mandela has been one of the most progressive forces in the world in countering racism and forms of imperilaism. yes, I don't think everything Rhodes did was necesssarily positive but you can't necessarily judge him by modern standards. And renaming everything would be very difficult, should Penny Lane be named? Would that mean the beatles song would have to be renamed?

And anyway using your logic: You have a state and a capital named after someone who owned slaves. there are plenty of other monuments etc named after Presidents who were racist. You could say that says it all...
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Alan Smithee
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#57
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#57
(Original post by CamSPSer)
You have a state and a capital named after someone who owned slaves. there are plenty of other monuments etc named after Presidents who were racist. You could say that says it all...
It does, too.
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shady lane
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#58
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#58
(Original post by CamSPSer)
There are colleges named after or founded by people who persecuted other people of other religions at oxbridge. SHould they all rename themseleves or disband in penintence?
The Rhodes Library is owned by the Rhodes Trust, an organistaion which has along with the Nelson Mandal foundation. in 2004 he was voted 56th greatest South African. Now South Africa is no longer dominated by the English and Mandela has been one of the most progressive forces in the world in countering racism and forms of imperilaism. yes, I don't think everything Rhodes did was necesssarily positive but you can't necessarily judge him by modern standards. And renaming everything would be very difficult, should Penny Lane be named? Would that mean the beatles song would have to be renamed?

And anyway using your logic: You have a state and a capital named after someone who owned slaves. there are plenty of other monuments etc named after Presidents who were racist. You could say that says it all...
1. America is still racist.
2. There are no black or African oriented institutions that I'm aware of in the US named after fervent racists. Cecil Rhodes said that white British people were the world's greatest race and deserve to rule over all other people. That doens't seem like an appropriate name for the center of African Studies at one of the world's greatest universities. That Mandela Trust thing doesn't overcome the fact that when you walk into the library at Rhodes House, there are photographs of South African apartheid politicians.
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CamSPSer
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#59
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#59
(Original post by shady lane)
1. America is still racist.
2. There are no black or African oriented institutions that I'm aware of in the US named after fervent racists. Cecil Rhodes said that white British people were the world's greatest race and deserve to rule over all other people. That doens't seem like an appropriate name for the center of African Studies at one of the world's greatest universities. That Mandela Trust thing doesn't overcome the fact that when you walk into the library at Rhodes House, there are photographs of South African apartheid politicians.
I'm presuming you think they should rename it then. So what else should we rename? Yes or no to each one please
Penny Lane
Colleges named after people who persecuted people of religious views
Washington State and anything to do with Washington
Abraham Lincoln memorial, Lincoln University?

In fact everything named after pretty much anyone before WW1 needs renaming.
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imageofreality
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Platocrates)
Yes.

Unfortunately, PART of the latter seems to be prevalent (statistically) at Oxbridge.
do statistics tell you everything there is to know though? Maybe oxbridge is predominently white but i doubt it is done intentionally by anymeans, if anything im sure i saw somewhere about (oxford at least) being an equal opportunities employer.. I reali dont think statistics will say the whole story..
I mean if you took it statistically being white in certain parts of manchester would make you a minority :rolleyes:
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