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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    Today in a toy shop I saw a little boy take interest in a toy hoover, and his mum said 'no no, that's for little girls'.



    I think that's wrong... And I do think the enforcement of gender roles from birth has a significant impact on the child's future development, and can hinder the child. Now whilst I disagree with making boys wear dresses as role play (although my mum is a teacher, and as are three of my close relatives and they've never experienced anything close to this sort), I think something should be done about gender roles.


    The fact is our social environment has a huge effect on our development, our aspirations and our life goals. Toys, believe it or not, are a great way of enforcing gender roles as play is highly influential to a childs development. If my son wanted a girls toy, he can damn well have one, and vice versa if my child was a daughter.
    What store sells hoovers as a toy!? :s I don't really believe you saw that 'today' ...

    Anyway, if you did, I wouldn't buy a toy that dumb for my child regardless of their gender.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Islamic extremism in schools is concerning and has rightly been receiving due attention in the media. However, a far more worrying form of extremism is creeping into our schools almost un-noticed.

    The rise of radical feminism in our schools is extremely worrying and threatens this country's social fabric. Take a look at this extremist guff.

    http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6427726

    We now have people working in our schools who try to impose conspiracy theories about gender on very young children. This is extremely concerning, and has led me to want to send my own daughter (aged 3) to a private school to stop her feeling such a sense of entitlement. All people, regardless of gender, will only truly achieve if they work towards their goals. Feminist thought tells them that as a woman, they should be given special privileges. I don't want my daughter to be corrupted by such nonsense. It is very concerning that our taxes are being spent on this.

    Having just completed a PGCE (I have no intention of now entering teaching having seen how schools function), I have been privy to this nonsense and it horrifies me. I have seen early years practitioners encouraging, borderline pressuring, boys into wearing dresses during role play activities. This is not ethically right and is a clear example of how radical feminist thought is rising among adult women who are now trying to pass it on to our children. One practitioner looked down her nose at a parent whose son did not want to wear a dress during a school play. This boy had no interest in wearing dresses, yet the school wanted to force this on him all in the name of radical feminism. Terrifying.

    More and more women are being taken in by this radical nonsense. I have seen intelligent, free-thinking young women becoming extreme feminists and spouting feminist extremism on Facebook after being exposed to these ideas at university: make no mistake, the higher education system also promotes the feminist agenda.

    I am and always will be a strong advocate of equality of opportunity and equal treatment of women. What I will not support is unproven, highly controversial radical feminist conjecture being imposed on young children in state schools against their and their parents' will.
    I, on the whole, don't agree with the article and do think the author is stretching a point, but they are definitely right in thinking that sexism against women is far from a non-issue in contemporary society (see this thread for a range of colourful examples!). [NB the more colourful posts have now been removed by TSR; I think this says something in itself]

    The fact that you also put the article under the heading of 'radical' feminism is rather amusing (and could be seen to undermine your insistence on being an advocate of equal opportunities, as you come across as seeming so concerned about feminism that you cite any form of pointing out potential examples of sexism against women as radical). Personally I'd view it maybe as eccentric, but don't see anything radical about making people aware of discrimination from a young age.

    Also, sorry to bust your bubble, but I myself attend a private school and can let you know right now that any school worth its salt should not, and is not going to, stand up to discrimination of any kind; as sexism (against either sex) is still an issue, I think its right that it should be discussed in schools.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Whilst I don't believe this to be the greatest or most pressing issue within our society, I do think the article raises some important points. Just because it is trivial compared to many more serious issues in society, does not detract from the argument.

    Miss and Sir are clearly not equal and have connotations that refer to a less equal past. Some people will say women are equal now, but this is merely an example of some vestiges of past inequality that still pervade our society. Personally, we should have some respectful genderless term to refer to teachers. I don't see why we need to categorise and demarcate teachers between either Sir or Miss. Why not just have a universal term like 'Professor'? Admittedly as someone said earlier, Miss and Sir are far more simple and involve only a single syllable.

    I don't see anything about this article that leads me to believe that radical feminists are taking over education.
    The origins of the terms are irrelevant. No child - or sane teacher for that matter, views "miss" as inferior to "sir". These are two very common terms used in schools and it is another example of feminists seeking out offensiveness where there isn't any.

    IMO anyone who identifies this as a worrying issue has problems and should not be teaching our children. The crazy woman even said "It's a depressing example of how women are given low status and men, no matter how young or new in the job they are, are given high status."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27403902

    That is an absolutely outrageous quote. To suggest that schools are giving female teachers a low status just because they are referred to as "miss" is staggering.

    The University of Roehampton ought to be embarrassed that they employ this loon as a professor.
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    (Original post by R+G are dead)
    I, on the whole, don't agree with the article and do think the author is stretching a point, but they are definitely right in thinking that sexism against women is far from a non-issue in contemporary society (see this thread for a range of colourful examples!).

    The fact that you also put the article under the heading of 'radical' feminism is rather amusing (and could be seen to undermine your insistence on being an advocate of equal opportunities, as you come across as seeming so concerned about feminism that you cite any form of pointing out potential examples of sexism against women as radical). Personally I'd view it maybe as eccentric, but don't see anything radical about making people aware of discrimination from a young age.

    Also, sorry to bust your bubble, but I myself attend a private school and can let you know right now that any school worth its salt should not, and is not going to, stand up to discrimination of any kind; as sexism (against either sex) is still an issue, I think its right that it should be discussed in schools.
    There are laws in this country to protect women from discrimination. If women don't want to pursue legal avenues to ensure these laws are enforced, that is their problem. I won't be losing any sleep over it.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    There are laws in this country to protect women from discrimination. If women don't want to pursue legal avenues to ensure these laws are enforced, that is their problem. I won't be losing any sleep over it.
    As a trainee teacher I thought you'd be smart enough to realise by now that there's only so much the law can do to prevent discrimination. Also, despite being a self-professed advocate of standing up to discrimination, your comment above wholly undermines your initial professed stance.
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    (Original post by R+G are dead)
    I feel so sorry for your daughter.
    Interesting to see that you can't refute anything I've said so you resort to personal attacks on a three-year-old girl. Classy.

    My daughter will be brought up to understand that she will need to work hard to achieve what she want to and that she should not expect any special privileges. If she is discriminated against it is her responsibility to ensure that the full weight of the law is brought down on the perpetrators, because nobody else is going to do it for her. She will be (hopefully) an independent, confident woman capable of making key decisions for herself.

    In other words, she'll be the polar opposite of people calling themselves feminists.
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    (Original post by R+G are dead)
    As a trainee teacher I thought you'd be smart enough to realise by now that there's only so much the law can do to prevent discrimination.
    You edited that too late.

    I haven't seen any examples of what you are claiming during my teacher training. I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of some.
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    What store sells hoovers as a toy!? :s I don't really believe you saw that 'today' ...

    Anyway, if you did, I wouldn't buy a toy that dumb for my child regardless of their gender.

    You didn't know they existed?

    http://m.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Toy...leaner/0031169


    The one I saw was in the Disney shop though.
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    You didn't know they existed?

    http://m.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Toy...leaner/0031169


    The one I saw was in the Disney shop though.
    Good grief.

    Even though I'm somewhat anti-feminist, on toys like that I'd concede that they have a point.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Interesting to see that you can't refute anything I've said so you resort to personal attacks on a three-year-old girl. Classy.

    My daughter will be brought up to understand that she will need to work hard to achieve what she want to and that she should not expect any special privileges. If she is discriminated against it is her responsibility to ensure that the full weight of the law is brought down on the perpetrators, because nobody else is going to do it for her. She will be (hopefully) an independent, confident woman capable of making key decisions for herself.

    In other words, she'll be the polar opposite of people calling themselves feminists.
    I edited that, not because I don't still think that, but because I thought of something less childish to say; you're right it was extortionately childish, but I suppose it's childish to have even got involved in this thread in the first place. It's interesting that you suggest I am attacking your daughter personally when I feel sorry for her because she'll have to grow up with you and your views; it doesn't take that much thinking to work out I'm arguing against you and your own ideas.

    OK, the childishness ends here. I don't think people should rely on others when they can sort problems out themselves, and I don't want anyone to think they have special privileges that they don't have to work for, but I wouldn't call the right not to be discriminated against a 'special privilege'. Is it really a special privilege, for example, to expect to not have to be subject to abuse, either verbal or physical, for your gender, sexual orientation, race etc.? Particularly if your own child is discriminated against, how can it not be your responsibility as a parent to help her achieve justice through the legal system, if she has to and is not able to do so without support? Or anybody's child, for that matter.

    I didn't refute your arguments because I didn't think I wanted to waste my time as I know it will fall on ears that are stoppered shut, but here goes:

    I was saying that as someone who is meant to have achieved a certain level of intelligence (as people who complete teacher training are expected to have achieved), it's frankly astounding that you don't seem to know the difference between earning something through hard work and diligence, and having the right not to be unjustly discriminated against, along with the fact that you 'don't lose any sleep' over not helping people who are discriminated against.

    It's interesting how you seem to suggest that as soon as women are ok with calling themselves feminists they cease to be intelligent and free-thinking, and it's also interesting that you suggest sexism against women is solely argued against by women.

    That you list all feminism as 'extreme' suggests that you are highly uncomfortable with the notion of standing up to sexism against women, so would prefer it if people ignored all evidence of sexism completely rather than making a range of valid arguments and, inevitably in the process, making some eccentric ones (such as the article).
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    (Original post by Kool_blaze)
    men who support feminism are disgraces, stooping that low probably just to get a girl, they are shameless. also we need more non feminist women to speak out against feminists.
    Hear Hear!
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    We have to do something, we are growing up in a world of weak men now due to this!
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    (Original post by R+G are dead)
    OK, the childishness ends here. I don't think people should rely on others when they can sort problems out themselves, and I don't want anyone to think they have special privileges that they don't have to work for, but I wouldn't call the right not to be discriminated against a 'special privilege'. Is it really a special privilege, for example, to expect to not have to be subject to abuse, either verbal or physical, for your gender, sexual orientation, race etc.? Particularly if your own child is discriminated against, how can it not be your responsibility as a parent to help her achieve justice through the legal system, if she has to and is not able to do so without support? Or anybody's child, for that matter.

    I didn't refute your arguments because I didn't think I wanted to waste my time as I know it will fall on ears that are stoppered shut, but here goes:

    I was saying that as someone who is meant to have achieved a certain level of intelligence (as people who complete teacher training are expected to have achieved), it's frankly astounding that you don't seem to know the difference between earning something through hard work and diligence, and having the right not to be unjustly discriminated against, along with the fact that you 'don't lose any sleep' over not helping people who are discriminated against.
    Goes without saying that I would assist my own daughter. What I won't be doing is joining the feminist campaign that seeks to excuse women who fail to pursue their goals as a result of their own inadequacies.

    As for your first paragraph, I don't view the right not to be discriminated against as a special privilege. The right not to be discriminated against is already enshrined in law. I support these laws and I also support women who work to have these laws enforced. What I won't support is women who continue to moan about the "gender pay gap" and "glass ceiling" despite the fact that these laws are in place. If you really believe that these things exist, make use of anti-discrimination legislation to bring legal proceedings against those responsible for these phenomena.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Islamic extremism in schools is concerning and has rightly been receiving due attention in the media. However, a far more worrying form of extremism is creeping into our schools almost un-noticed.

    The rise of radical feminism in our schools is extremely worrying and threatens this country's social fabric. Take a look at this extremist guff.

    http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6427726

    We now have people working in our schools who try to impose conspiracy theories about gender on very young children. This is extremely concerning, and has led me to want to send my own daughter (aged 3) to a private school to stop her feeling such a sense of entitlement. All people, regardless of gender, will only truly achieve if they work towards their goals. Feminist thought tells them that as a woman, they should be given special privileges. I don't want my daughter to be corrupted by such nonsense. It is very concerning that our taxes are being spent on this.
    Having just completed a PGCE (I have no intention of now entering teaching having seen how schools function), I have been privy to this nonsense and it horrifies me. I have seen early years practitioners encouraging, borderline pressuring, boys into wearing dresses during role play activities. This is not ethically right and is a clear example of how radical feminist thought is rising among adult women who are now trying to pass it on to our children. One practitioner looked down her nose at a parent whose son did not want to wear a dress during a school play. This boy had no interest in wearing dresses, yet the school wanted to force this on him all in the name of radical feminism. Terrifying.

    More and more women are being taken in by this radical nonsense. I have seen intelligent, free-thinking young women becoming extreme feminists and spouting feminist extremism on Facebook after being exposed to these ideas at university: make no mistake, the higher education system also promotes the feminist agenda.

    I am and always will be a strong advocate of equality of opportunity and equal treatment of women. What I will not support is unproven, highly controversial radical feminist conjecture being imposed on young children in state schools against their and their parents' will.
    Its very concerning that my tax dollars went on funding your ill thought out course.

    Would you mind definding what you mean by 'radical' or 'extreme' in relation to feminism? You use the terms frequently without explaining what you're on about.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Its very concerning that my tax dollars went on funding your ill thought out course.

    Would you mind definding what you mean by 'radical' or 'extreme' in relation to feminism? You use the terms frequently without explaining what you're on about.
    I define extreme/radical feminists as anyone who believes that women need additional legislation in their favour beyond existing legal protections of their rights. This includes those who want to undermine pornography and freedom of speech, as well as those who seek to impose feminist linguistic conjecture on children and undermine the masculinity of primary school boys, both of which I outlined in my original post.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    Classic whataboutery followed by a strawman and a few canards for good measure.

    I'm glad you aren't going to blight the education of the next generation if that is what you think is a good argument.
    Struggling to see where the whataboutery and strawmen are in my post.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    I define extreme/radical feminists as anyone who believes that women need additional legislation in their favour beyond existing legal protections of their rights.
    So were the feminists who are fine with the current legal protections 'radical' or 'extreme' when they were campaigning for them to be put in place? Or do you just think, by some amazing coincidence, that the laws we have in place right now are absolutely perfect and faultless?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So were the feminists who are fine with the current legal protections 'radical' or 'extreme' when they were campaigning for them to be put in place?
    No, of course not.

    Or do you just think, by some amazing coincidence, that the laws we have in place right now are absolutely perfect and faultless?
    Not totally faultless, but 90% of the problems feminists moan about are their own fault and there are no legal barriers to women achieving what they want to.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Struggling to see where the whataboutery and strawmen are in my post.
    The first and second paragraphs respectively.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Not totally faultless, but 90% of the problems feminists moan about are their own fault and there are no legal barriers to women achieving what they want to.
    Can't be part of the Lords Spiritual can they?
 
 
 
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