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    (Original post by Ruitker)
    You couldn't be more wrong.
    Wrong about what? Not having the policies for leading the UK, or the global warming part?
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    (Original post by AstroNandos)
    Wrong about what? Not having the policies for leading the UK, or the global warming part?
    They do policies in place, not many, because they are being re-written for announcement in September.
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    UKIP seems to be a political movement rather than a political party. It is a movement towards a stronger immigration policy and less/no EU. Other than that I think there is a great disparity among UKIP members views on other stances. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

    Don't get me wrong in nearly every political party there is always a divergence on opinion, however I really doubt UKIP are as united as they are when it comes to policy other than EU and immigration. The party technically was founded to steal Tory votes. What it has seemed to have done is steal hard eurosceptic Tory politicians and old Labour voters.

    Can one truly unite this group? I don't know.
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    (Original post by Lambrook)
    UKIP seems to be a political movement rather than a political party. It is a movement towards a stronger immigration policy and less/no EU. Other than that I think there is a great disparity among UKIP members views on other stances. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

    Don't get me wrong in nearly every political party there is always a divergence on opinion, however I really doubt UKIP are as united as they are when it comes to policy other than EU and immigration. The party technically was founded to steal Tory votes. What it has seemed to have done is steal hard eurosceptic Tory politicians and old Labour voters.

    Can one truly unite this group? I don't know.
    Well, the majority of them believe HS2 should be scrapped. Nearly all of them want reform in the NHS. The thing is:

    1) There isn't much worth seriously talking about yet all the while we ARE part of the EU because it controls so much.

    2) Central government issues, domestic, welfare, defence policies etc will all be revealed very soon by them for the debate to take place.

    So based on that I'd say they are a real party, they aren't as rich an successful as the other three, obviously but I think in the years to come they will be more than just a battering ram against the Tory party and New Labour.


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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Personally I think UKIP have got good policies!
    are you even serious? have you even read their manifesto?
    have you just read their polices on immigration and ignored
    all their other policies?
    Just want to know
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    (Original post by the1nonly)
    are you even serious? have you even read their manifesto?
    have you just read their polices on immigration and ignored
    all their other policies?
    Just want to know
    The actual detail in their policies might not be top notch, but their ideas are good!
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    The actual detail in their policies might not be top notch, but their ideas are good!
    what kind of ideas exactly?
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    (Original post by the1nonly)
    what kind of ideas exactly?
    Reduce immigration
    Removal from EU

    ETC
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Reduce immigration
    Removal from EU

    ETC
    ok cool, just want to know something,
    what is your opinion on immigrants?
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    (Original post by the1nonly)
    ok cool, just want to know something,
    what is your opinion on immigrants?
    So many questions

    Personally, I feel there are too many of them. Personally the ones that come to the UK and claim welfare benefits, and in general take people's jobs, I'm not cool with that. If we need an immigrant to say be a doctor due to a shortage, then go ahead, but its when immigrants take on jobs say cleaner, that a British person could do!
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    So many questions

    Personally, I feel there are too many of them. Personally the ones that come to the UK and claim welfare benefits, and in general take people's jobs, I'm not cool with that. If we need an immigrant to say be a doctor due to a shortage, then go ahead, but its when immigrants take on jobs say cleaner, that a British person could do!
    - well im pretty sure that immigrants are not allowed to claim benefits until they have stayed at least 5 years in the country and (depending on types of visas) they cannot stay in the UK unless they earn a moderate amount of money (at least £35,000 annually and work more than 30 hours), if they don't meet this criteria they will be forced to return to their country.
    Also immigrants on benefits are a small minority.
    Immigrants DO NOT take 'BRITISH' jobs, unemployed british people are not as active to seek out jobs than the immigrants. Also most british people won't do the 'dirty,demeaning and dangerous 'jobs that immigrants do.
    -- and plz don't say immigrants don't contribute to taxes and the local economy because that is just bull****. immigrants pay their taxes, most of them are friendly, they integrate etc..
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    So many questions

    Personally, I feel there are too many of them. Personally the ones that come to the UK and claim welfare benefits, and in general take people's jobs, I'm not cool with that. If we need an immigrant to say be a doctor due to a shortage, then go ahead, but its when immigrants take on jobs say cleaner, that a British person could do!
    but btw i still think we should control the immigration borders and reduce immigration.
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    I like Farage, he is a funny character, but I do not like UKIP. There is no way they can run the country. I am pleased with how the Conservatives are running the UK.
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    They are a pathetic group of miserable, isolationists. Little old England is not much of a power at anything, anymore. Our economy is far to heavily invested in the services and finance sectors. We are a significant net importer, with a piss poor high tech design and manufacturing Base.

    The World is gradually heading towards a globalised singular society. We need to be moving forwards not backwards. The EU has a lot of things about it which need changing or improving, but you can't do any of that from the outside. Cooperation is the future, not pets spats over lines on stupid maps.

    The problems humanity faces today are global problems, which can only be dealt with on a global scale. The reason we are so ****ed up in the first place, is down too many cooks spoiling the broth.

    Nobody takes anybody else's job from them. You don't own a job, you work in it. The real problem is that the companies are all downsizing their workforces. Replacing them with software, robots and algorithms. The majority of available jobs are going to only be available to people with high level skills, which are not easy to replace with an unconscious machine.

    Stop being so ****ing insular, and stop the naval gazing. You live on a planet not just an Island. Try something different for a change, instead of always reverting to the easy comfortable option.
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    there a bunch of bigoted small minded little Englander idiots basically
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    UKIP are ripe for implosion when the party launches its 2015 manifesto because the views of its members are so disparate. Even British withdrawal from the European Union is a 'soft' stance of many of the people who voted for them at the European elections; in other words, their voters have higher priorities and they vote UKIP because of their undeserved reputation as an anti-Westminster party.

    First of all, UKIP is anything but an outsider to Westminster. It has wide support from former Tories, some of whom have sat in the House of Commons and House of Lords before. Their members who are MEPs are none too shy in claiming huge expenses and Farage has been an MEP for about 15 years. He is only an 'outsider' in so far as he regularly can't be bothered to go to work. When people get used to the party work ethic in their local councils, they will be turned off maybe not from the party but from the individuals within it. You need more than one figurehead in a successful party and that won't be achieved by people who don't have a strong work ethic.

    UKIP's main problem of course is the fact that it is a right wing Tory party who sourced 70% of their votes in the recent European election from voters who want the energy and railway sectors re-nationalised. Farage himself is clearly part of UKIP because the EU frustrated his ability to profiteer as a commodities trader, his job completely at odds with the moral grounding of most of his voters! Their views on the NHS are also at odds with the voters and don't expect them to scrap tuition fees either, at least not unless they can dramatically cut the numbers of people going to university. That will have to come out at the general election next year.

    Perhaps the only thing that UKIP unites its voters on is immigration, mainly due to years of misinformation both from far right parties and the right wing press. The OECD makes clear that to support the current baby boomer generation without massive tax hikes on younger generations, we will need further mass immigration across Europe. Baby boomers tend to vote for UKIP in larger numbers because they don't give a damn if other people have to pay more tax (they also don't tend to care about the future of their jobs as they're now retiring). However, young people would be mad to take the burden without any outside help. Most immigrants, certainly from Europe, come here on a short term basis and they come to work. Working abroad is a fantastic experience; I've done it, I was welcomed where I went and I support others coming to my country of birth to do the same.

    Also, UKIP never mentions emigration. The other parties didn't make a big enough deal of the 2.3 million people living on the continent. If Britain withdrew from the EU, what would happen to them? They'd be forced to go back to Britain against their will.

    That's the main problem with UKIP. They don't bother looking at the benefits of European Union. Certainly, the institutions need reform because national governments undermine the democracy of the European Parliament. However, that's a case for reform, not withdrawal. What exactly is wrong with the opportunities brought about by free movement of peoples, a single economic market and the social chapter? Do we really prefer to give people like Nigel Farage the opportunity to deliver us less freedom to live abroad, customs duties and poor working conditions because they're 'British' policies? Because like it or not, that's what they're all about.
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    (Original post by AW1983)
    UKIP are ripe for implosion when the party launches its 2015 manifesto because the views of its members are so disparate. Even British withdrawal from the European Union is a 'soft' stance of many of the people who voted for them at the European elections; in other words, their voters have higher priorities and they vote UKIP because of their undeserved reputation as an anti-Westminster party.

    First of all, UKIP is anything but an outsider to Westminster. It has wide support from former Tories, some of whom have sat in the House of Commons and House of Lords before. Their members who are MEPs are none too shy in claiming huge expenses and Farage has been an MEP for about 15 years. He is only an 'outsider' in so far as he regularly can't be bothered to go to work. When people get used to the party work ethic in their local councils, they will be turned off maybe not from the party but from the individuals within it. You need more than one figurehead in a successful party and that won't be achieved by people who don't have a strong work ethic.

    UKIP's main problem of course is the fact that it is a right wing Tory party who sourced 70% of their votes in the recent European election from voters who want the energy and railway sectors re-nationalised. Farage himself is clearly part of UKIP because the EU frustrated his ability to profiteer as a commodities trader, his job completely at odds with the moral grounding of most of his voters! Their views on the NHS are also at odds with the voters and don't expect them to scrap tuition fees either, at least not unless they can dramatically cut the numbers of people going to university. That will have to come out at the general election next year.

    Perhaps the only thing that UKIP unites its voters on is immigration, mainly due to years of misinformation both from far right parties and the right wing press. The OECD makes clear that to support the current baby boomer generation without massive tax hikes on younger generations, we will need further mass immigration across Europe. Baby boomers tend to vote for UKIP in larger numbers because they don't give a damn if other people have to pay more tax (they also don't tend to care about the future of their jobs as they're now retiring). However, young people would be mad to take the burden without any outside help. Most immigrants, certainly from Europe, come here on a short term basis and they come to work. Working abroad is a fantastic experience; I've done it, I was welcomed where I went and I support others coming to my country of birth to do the same.

    Also, UKIP never mentions emigration. The other parties didn't make a big enough deal of the 2.3 million people living on the continent. If Britain withdrew from the EU, what would happen to them? They'd be forced to go back to Britain against their will.

    That's the main problem with UKIP. They don't bother looking at the benefits of European Union. Certainly, the institutions need reform because national governments undermine the democracy of the European Parliament. However, that's a case for reform, not withdrawal. What exactly is wrong with the opportunities brought about by free movement of peoples, a single economic market and the social chapter? Do we really prefer to give people like Nigel Farage the opportunity to deliver us less freedom to live abroad, customs duties and poor working conditions because they're 'British' policies? Because like it or not, that's what they're all about.
    UKIP’s opponents are never seem to get tired of telling us that the party is about to implode. They’ve always been wrong and there’s no reason to suggest they’ll be right now after the party’s best ever set of election results and with other parties thought to be untrustworthy and incompetent by so many of UKIP’s potential supporters. No realistic UKIP supporter expects that this will be anything other than a long game so the ups and downs of political campaigning are to be expected.

    I have no problem with Farage claiming his allowances as he is campaigning for the UK to leave the EU and its allowances system. If you’re so concerned about these allowances, do you think I should vote for MEPs who want the EU and its system to continue? And if I want MEPs who work play the EU game I’ll vote for pro-EU MEPs. No, I want my MEPs to campaign to end our EU membership and it that I have huge respect for UKIP MEPs’ work ethic.

    UKIP’s main problem is a comparatively small budget for election campaigns, making it difficult to counter decades of deceit and prejudice.

    I also think it is sensible to cut the numbers going to university. What is the point of a 50% [EU] target when we still cannot train enough professionals and have to import them from abroad because it’s cheaper that way, and yet we still have trouble finding a plumber and youth unemployment stands at hundreds of thousands?

    I think you’re quite right in saying UKIP’s opposition to mass immigration has been a vote winner among UKIP supporters. This is nothing to do with misinformation from anybody. UKIP has just made a case its supporters recognise and support it rather than the mass immigration policies of their opponents.

    What does the OECD say about the effect of mass non-skilled immigration will have on our already overstretched public services and the difficulty in finding suitable building land to house them when we already have a housing crisis? And who does it say is going to look after this increased population when they get old? Does it think we should import still more immigrants in a ‘kick the can down the road’ approach?

    The basis on which immigrants come here is not my main concern when our population is growing at the rate it is and the British do not owe anybody a better life. Our relationship with immigrants should be mutually beneficial. I’ve also worked abroad and it was indeed a fantastic experience and would also support others who do the same. However, I believe people should only work in another country if they have the tacit support of the people of their chosen country and its population.

    We in UKIP have looked carefully at the benefits of the EU. We have concluded that they come at far too high a price on both economic and a quality of life levels. Freedom of movement has brought us mass immigration, the Single Market is not closed to non-EU members and the Social Chapter makes us even less compatible with countries which don’t place such restrictions on their employers. Employees’ and employers’ rights need to be balanced so as not to make the cost of employing staff prohibitive, especially to small businesses. You might argue that all of this is not entirely the fault of the EU, that some of the fault must lie with our own politicians. I’d agree and this is a very good reason to withdraw support from these politicians imo. They have after all given us unprecedented public debts that we can’t hope to pay off so they will be left to future generations to deal with. The immorality of it stinks.

    Which EU institutions do you think national governments undermine and how? Depending on what it is they’re doing I’d probably support them.

    And yes, I do want people like Nigel Farage given the opportunity to deliver a properly managed immigration policy, a pro-British trade policy, and a whole host of other policies I believe UKIP will put forward. Of course I will not support poor working conditions and cannot see how UKIP does either.

    People have been trying to reform the EU for a very long time without success. I think it’s time we cut our losses. And I most definitely give a damn about this country's tax burden.
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    (Original post by MrEFeynman)
    They are a pathetic group of miserable, isolationists. Little old England is not much of a power at anything, anymore. Our economy is far to heavily invested in the services and finance sectors. We are a significant net importer, with a piss poor high tech design and manufacturing Base.

    The World is gradually heading towards a globalised singular society. We need to be moving forwards not backwards. The EU has a lot of things about it which need changing or improving, but you can't do any of that from the outside. Cooperation is the future, not pets spats over lines on stupid maps.

    The problems humanity faces today are global problems, which can only be dealt with on a global scale. The reason we are so ****ed up in the first place, is down too many cooks spoiling the broth.

    Nobody takes anybody else's job from them. You don't own a job, you work in it. The real problem is that the companies are all downsizing their workforces. Replacing them with software, robots and algorithms. The majority of available jobs are going to only be available to people with high level skills, which are not easy to replace with an unconscious machine.

    Stop being so ****ing insular, and stop the naval gazing. You live on a planet not just an Island. Try something different for a change, instead of always reverting to the easy comfortable option.
    Just wow -_-

    (Original post by PassingAlways)
    there a bunch of bigoted small minded little Englander idiots basically
    And a further just wow -_-
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    UKIP’s opponents are never seem to get tired of telling us that the party is about to implode. They’ve always been wrong and there’s no reason to suggest they’ll be right now after the party’s best ever set of election results and with other parties thought to be untrustworthy and incompetent by so many of UKIP’s potential supporters. No realistic UKIP supporter expects that this will be anything other than a long game so the ups and downs of political campaigning are to be expected.

    I have no problem with Farage claiming his allowances as he is campaigning for the UK to leave the EU and its allowances system. If you’re so concerned about these allowances, do you think I should vote for MEPs who want the EU and its system to continue? And if I want MEPs who work play the EU game I’ll vote for pro-EU MEPs. No, I want my MEPs to campaign to end our EU membership and it that I have huge respect for UKIP MEPs’ work ethic.

    UKIP’s main problem is a comparatively small budget for election campaigns, making it difficult to counter decades of deceit and prejudice.

    I also think it is sensible to cut the numbers going to university. What is the point of a 50% [EU] target when we still cannot train enough professionals and have to import them from abroad because it’s cheaper that way, and yet we still have trouble finding a plumber and youth unemployment stands at hundreds of thousands?

    I think you’re quite right in saying UKIP’s opposition to mass immigration has been a vote winner among UKIP supporters. This is nothing to do with misinformation from anybody. UKIP has just made a case its supporters recognise and support it rather than the mass immigration policies of their opponents.

    What does the OECD say about the effect of mass non-skilled immigration will have on our already overstretched public services and the difficulty in finding suitable building land to house them when we already have a housing crisis? And who does it say is going to look after this increased population when they get old? Does it think we should import still more immigrants in a ‘kick the can down the road’ approach?

    The basis on which immigrants come here is not my main concern when our population is growing at the rate it is and the British do not owe anybody a better life. Our relationship with immigrants should be mutually beneficial. I’ve also worked abroad and it was indeed a fantastic experience and would also support others who do the same. However, I believe people should only work in another country if they have the tacit support of the people of their chosen country and its population.

    We in UKIP have looked carefully at the benefits of the EU. We have concluded that they come at far too high a price on both economic and a quality of life levels. Freedom of movement has brought us mass immigration, the Single Market is not closed to non-EU members and the Social Chapter makes us even less compatible with countries which don’t place such restrictions on their employers. Employees’ and employers’ rights need to be balanced so as not to make the cost of employing staff prohibitive, especially to small businesses. You might argue that all of this is not entirely the fault of the EU, that some of the fault must lie with our own politicians. I’d agree and this is a very good reason to withdraw support from these politicians imo. They have after all given us unprecedented public debts that we can’t hope to pay off so they will be left to future generations to deal with. The immorality of it stinks.

    Which EU institutions do you think national governments undermine and how? Depending on what it is they’re doing I’d probably support them.

    And yes, I do want people like Nigel Farage given the opportunity to deliver a properly managed immigration policy, a pro-British trade policy, and a whole host of other policies I believe UKIP will put forward. Of course I will not support poor working conditions and cannot see how UKIP does either.

    People have been trying to reform the EU for a very long time without success. I think it’s time we cut our losses. And I most definitely give a damn about this country's tax burden.
    TLDR. But a lot of it reads rather like a Liberal Democrat defending their party about five years ago.
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    Do we really need another millionaire public school boy leading a party? We've already got one in Cameron.

    Or another banker for that matter?

    As for UKIP's flat rate taxes- is this really a good idea? Every tax payer to pay the same rate of tax whether they earn £20,000 : £200,000: or £2,000,000.

    As for immigration - even Nigel Farage thinks immigrants make a more positive contribution to the economy than not. After all most immigrants are young, ambitious, hard working and haven't bothered to travel here to do nothing: and we haven't had to pay for their education, so they're cheap.

    So presumably his objection to immigration is on other grounds.

    Immigrants don't take our jobs. There aren't a finite number of jobs and when they're taken that's it.
    If that were the case we would still have the same number of jobs as 100 years ago. If that were the case the US, the immigrant nation to beat all nations, would be the poorest not the richest nation in the world. If that were the case Germany wouldn't be advertising for immigrants.

    What people are complaining about really is the lack of planning ( eg for school places.) and in particular low wages, unemployment and very expensive housing.

    These are political criticisms ie our government not making the right decisions about spending and investment. We need to discuss which are the best ways to get full employment/housing etc.

    Should the Government be insisting banks which have been bailed out, lend for investment? rather than upping the already massive salaries and bonuses their traders ( like Nigel was ) get? We all know you've got to invest to move forward. Every business does it.

    Should we be spending on infrastructure like housing to create jobs. Surely a win win win policy. More desperately needed houses, more jobs, more tax revenue to pay down debt/ invest / raise the minimum wage so people can spend on goods.

    Do we want to have a health service like America's?

    In whose interest is it to have 2 million unemployed?

    Why has the birth rate fallen?

    Why are wages falling?
 
 
 
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