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    (Original post by Cornelius)
    The second one is as invalid as an argument can be and has been debunked a trillion times.

    The last one doesn't really make sense. Natives dislike immigrants because of free movement within the EU?

    First one is half-right. There's competition for the kind of work that most immigrants do so the people applying for those kinds of jobs are likely to be at a disadvantage. It's half-wrong however because the overall effect on employment is neutral or even slightly positive.

    But I hardly think those quantifiable arguments are what really bother people. They simply want to be with people who look like them. It's a primal instinct, no need to find "arguments" for it.
    Increased numbers of Eastern Europeans migrants has been very visible in recent years. People find the free labour movement within the EU as unfair and as a result don't like immigration, which can extend to a hatred of immigrants (although nothing is stopping them from moving to Poland or Czech Republic either).

    Personally I'd argue that decreased budgets for local councils in conjunction with a slight rise in population (part fuelled by immigration) is what is putting a strain on public services, however there is no doubting that a large number of people blame the issue on immigrants. It is a case of the media picking and choosing.

    Immigrants do a wide range of work. A lot of it, but by no means all, happen to be unskilled or semi-skilled labour which puts pressure on people from working class backgrounds competing for those jobs. This is why Britain First and the BNP have such an appeal amongst Britain's underclass who have found themselves without a role in modern British society.

    Sure people like to be amongst their own kind, but that doesn't mean people hate immigrants for that reason. Majority of people I know are more than happy to have friends from different ethnic backgrounds. Most people don't hate the individual, but rather the system.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Is living in the past going to benefit anyone? I guess you blame all white people for the Holocaust and slave trade too. Pathetic. You don't have the right to take the money at all. What about the Brits in India? Are they able to claim benefits and study in your country like you can here? And you really have no leg to stand on seeing as you have come here anyway.
    VERY ignorant comment, here. My parents came here when I was 12. They went on to have 3 children and they've never claimed a free penny from the state. They've always been the higher band tax payers. No one in our family has ever claimed benefits
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    (Original post by Minju)
    VERY ignorant comment, here. My parents came here when I was 12. They went on to have 3 children and they've never claimed a free penny from the state. They've always been the higher band tax payers. No one in our family has ever claimed benefits
    I don't think you read what I said. I didn't say you have claimed benefits. But, you COULD. I very much doubt Brits can claim benefits in India, seeing as every other country in the world looks after their own first, unlike here. Point being you have more rights here as an immigrant than Brits in other countries do.
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    (Original post by Minju)
    English Families

    You guys also need to sort out your way of family life. Immigrants and non-whites haven't forced your women to date non-whites, they haven't forced them to open their legs every weekend, they haven't forced them to dress like whores from a young age, they haven't forced them spend their weekly earnings in 2 nights of the week. The problem is the more 'modern' you are pretty much equates to wearing less and less clothes and sleeping with x number of partners however way you look at it. Look how family life was back in this country 60 or more years ago and now look at it, it's in complete shambles. Teenage pregnancies across the board, abortions, ******* children, I could go on and on. Non-whites haven't forced your women to be this way. Just look at the ever lowering birth rate in this country, the number of marriages being broken, the number of people deciding not to have any children. All of this is a product of your own people and no one else is to blame. You do not encourage a healthy family lifestyle, decent morals or values.
    It's obviously us white British who are racist when you're the one saying all English families are like this, where we don't encourage decent morals or values, and saying every English white girl is pretty much a slut. I live in an English family, and we have been taught good morals and values. I believe it is in fact you who wasn't taught decent morals.

    It's times like this when I wish neg rep was still around...
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    (Original post by delboy_bell)
    Have you driven around Toxteth lately ? Or Handsworth ? Or Chapeltown ? Or Brixton ? Or Hackney ? Blackburn ?

    Where are these immigrants with nice houses and nice cars because I sure ain't seen it, o sure, one or two will slid through the net ? But if you look at these main areas will immigrants live. You will find that these areas of highest unemployment, worst housing, worst schools and worst of everything

    Now that is either TRUE or FALSE

    Check it out. Test it for yourself
    This may surprise you but there is this place outside London called the rest of the country. Which does have immigrants (1st 2nd and 3rd generation) living in nice houses and driving nice cars. I don't have a problem with it, they worked hard for that.

    But you can't say it doesn't happen just because you haven't seen it in the Boroughs of London because there in more to the UK than just London. There are parts of Birmingham (that is another city in England) with a high population of mainly Indian origin "rich" immigrants.

    In fact, I fit into the category of immigrant (3rd generation) living in a nice house and doing well for myself. It does happen.
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    (Original post by Swanbow)
    Increased numbers of Eastern Europeans migrants has been very visible in recent years. People find the free labour movement within the EU as unfair and as a result don't like immigration, which can extend to a hatred of immigrants (although nothing is stopping them from moving to Poland or Czech Republic either).

    Personally I'd argue that decreased budgets for local councils in conjunction with a slight rise in population (part fuelled by immigration) is what is putting a strain on public services, however there is no doubting that a large number of people blame the issue on immigrants. It is a case of the media picking and choosing.

    Immigrants do a wide range of work. A lot of it, but by no means all, happen to be unskilled or semi-skilled labour which puts pressure on people from working class backgrounds competing for those jobs. This is why Britain First and the BNP have such an appeal amongst Britain's underclass who have found themselves without a role in modern British society.

    Sure people like to be amongst their own kind, but that doesn't mean people hate immigrants for that reason. Majority of people I know are more than happy to have friends from different ethnic backgrounds. Most people don't hate the individual, but rather the system.
    Net migration in the UK is no different on average than it is in Germany or Austria. And yet British attitudes to migration are the worst among the major EU countries. I doubt it has to do with the actual number of migrants and very much to do with media reporting.

    As for public finances, it has nothing to do with decreased or increased budgets. Migrants are net tax payers - they pay far more than they get in from the public purse. Irrespective of the size of the budget.

    Regarding jobs, unskilled natives are more likely to be affected by non-EU migration (but not EU migration). So it's partly true. But, again, the overall effect is neutral and more importantly, the negative effect for unskilled migrants is only temporary (check the review) as supply of jobs is increased to deal with the increased supply of labour.

    So I stand by my original view. I doubt very much that the average voter has ever taken any interest in going through the studies (there aren't that many anyway - 29 studies overall) to check the effects of migration on employment or public finances. He might "hate'' the system not an individual migrant, I don't deny that but it does so for reasons that have nothing to do with these particular arguments you're referring to.
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    OP: I am a Pakistani British but I don't like your disrespectful comments about white British families. I admit that few (or maybe many) white people hate immigrants (there could be any reason behind their hate) but it doesn't mean that anyone is allowed to generalise on the basis of a personal experience.

    Perhaps, he was a white guy at British High Commission, Delhi, India who stamped student visa on your passport. so generalisation is not a solution.

    I think that racism has nothing to do with skin colour. It is all about poor mentality. For example, India (even Pakistan) faces loads of racism. Both countries are divided in different caste systems. In India, high caste Indians do racism against low caste Indians. For example, mass murder of innocent women and children in Gujarat's riots during Modi regime. Don't let few stupids to ruin your mood.

    BTW, £800 for a spouse visa is very cheap considering the cost of services you are getting in return from British embassy/council in India. Similarly, IELTS listening section's tape is recorded by professionals, all 4 sections require expert examiners, invigilators, staff, examination hall etc, and none of them is free. So £145 for IELTS academic is too cheap. BTW, nobody is forcing anyone to pay visa or ielts fees because you want to enter in UK therefore you have to fulfil the requirements. Although, Indian visit visa costs less but still it's not free.
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    (Original post by synthesis)
    I would also hate it if my country was flooded with other nationalities and start preaching against my own country. This is world. Its about patriotism. And your 'English families' paragraph, shows exactly why they hate immigrants.

    I am an immigrant but I respect everything about Britain. It has given me a life to live and I am always thankful. And unfortunately due to likes of you, we the sincere ones also get tainted.

    Sort out your attitude missy.
    I internet high five you, sir. My dad is an immigrant, though I was born in England. Since he's been here, for a good thirty years now, he's done everything he can to adapt and act as a British citizen, unlike so many other who whinge and moan about how unfair life is to them. :five:
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Of course. However, if I went abroad and started living in another country - particularly as a student, where I am not contributing in tax - I would be more polite than to **** off the native people there tbh.
    Freedom of speech is a right provided by this country and she is making full use of it
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    (Original post by Ben_Dover)
    Freedom of speech is a right provided by this country and she is making full use of it

    This
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Of course. However, if I went abroad and started living in another country - particularly as a student, where I am not contributing in tax - I would be more polite than to **** off the native people there tbh.
    Students aren't exempt from VAT (most of a person's spending is subject to taxation). Moroever, If you aren't working, it doesn't matter whether you're a migrant or a native, you're not paying income tax/NI ('cos you receive no income in the first place). It's not particular to migrants or students - some students work and pay all of that regardless of whether they're migrants or not (EU students can work freely).
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    This may surprise you but there is this place outside London called the rest of the country. Which does have immigrants (1st 2nd and 3rd generation) living in nice houses and driving nice cars. I don't have a problem with it, they worked hard for that.

    But you can't say it doesn't happen just because you haven't seen it in the Boroughs of London because there in more to the UK than just London. There are parts of Birmingham (that is another city in England) with a high population of mainly Indian origin "rich" immigrants.

    In fact, I fit into the category of immigrant (3rd generation) living in a nice house and doing well for myself. It does happen.
    I never said it does not happen. You said that. Not me

    But just as there r some people who have smoked all the lives, but never got cancer, that still does not disprove the fact that smoking causes cancer

    Besides racism goes far beyond the wallet
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Dislike of immigrants and racism are two different thing, although often raciest use ant-immigration arguments to advance raciest ideology. Immigrants themselves may not be bad people, however they do make life more difficult for the settled population through competition for jobs, homes etc. Therefore, regardless of whether its right or wrong to dislike immigrants, people are going to continue to do so because they make life harder for them. Racism on the other hand is more difficult to explain, the UK along with ever other western nation has a long history of racism, exploring why that continues to prevail can lead us to very controversial arguments.
    Each year, black and Asians spend over 3 billion with white-owned companies : money that goes mostly into the pockets of the white owners, white employees, white stockholders, and white communities in which they live.

    Not to mention the billions that ther UK earns via overseas trade.

    Now let's just cut the crap.

    Who would be hurt more : If all welfare programs were shut down tomorrow, or white folks, if blacks and Asian decided they were through transferring billions each year to white people and were going to keep their money in their own communities ?

    Indeed, I am beginning to think that whites are so dependent on immigrants (Especially immigrants of colour) that whites wouldn't know what to do without them.

    Oh sure, some say they would love to try, but in reality I doubt they could make it.

    If there were no immigrants then whites would have no one to blame but themselves for the crime that occurred; no one to blame but themselves when they didn't get the job they wanted; no one to blame but themselves when their lives turned out to be less than they expected.

    In short, you need immigrants - especially in a subordinate role - as a way to build yourselves up, and provide a sense of self-worth u otherwise lack.



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    (Original post by Minju)
    But what about the native white Brits on benefits?

    What at about them? Every country has problems with unemployment. Just because Britain has unemployment, it doesn't justify importing over immigrants who are going to add to the unemployment.

    Besides, settled immigrant communities have even higher rates of unemployment than 'natives', which I assumed to mean white people.
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    (Original post by delboy_bell)
    I never said it does not happen. You said that. Not me

    But just as there r some people who have smoked all the lives, but never got cancer, that still does not disprove the fact that smoking causes cancer

    Besides racism goes far beyond the wallet
    You said one or two slipped through the net. Those who really strived for greatness got there in the end.

    The UK isn't even that racist, I have been to places far far worse and seen some pretty unsettling things. That does not mean it is less of a problem, but it is not as widespread as the media would have you believe.

    There will always be some that oppose change because it is human nature. But in time we will see a shift in how the current settlers are perceived. We only have to look back a few decades to when the Irish immigrated to Britain. They were hated by some of the population, but slowly they integrated and nothing more was said.

    Racism is very different to dislike of immigrants. Racism is the perceived idea that one race is superior to another. Dislike of immigrants is dislike based on change. I admit that some of these people that dislike immigrants are racist but not all of them are. The real thing to blame for this dislike is actually the media.
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    (Original post by imtelling)
    What at about them? Every country has problems with unemployment. Just because Britain has unemployment, it doesn't justify importing over immigrants who are going to add to the unemployment.

    Besides, settled immigrant communities have even higher rates of unemployment than 'natives', which I assumed to mean white people.
    There are plenty of jobs available here in the UK....

    The only reason that the some people don't want to work,it's because they are lazy and have poor work ethics...
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    (Original post by Minju)
    There are plenty of jobs available here in the UK....

    The only reason that the some people don't want to work,it's because they are lazy and have poor work ethics...

    No, theres not plenty of jobs in the UK. The UK has been de-industrialising for decades now and what industrial jobs remain are increasingly being mechanised. At the same time, the borders were opened and the job market was saturated with literally millions of competing workers.

    Everyone thinks its the poor and working class who have to compete with the cheap labour flooding the economy, but its not. The middle class are also competing. For example, there are over 70 applicants for every graduate job now.


    But, who are you talking about exactly with the poor work ethics? The 40% of Pakistanis who are unemployed? The 40% of Bangledeshis who are unemployed? The 40% black Africans who are unemployed? The 20% of Indians who are unemployed? Who exactly has the bad work ethnic?

    I should point out, these unemployed Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Africans and Indians etc etc are all competing with immigrants for jobs and resources as well.
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    (Original post by imtelling)
    No, theres not plenty of jobs in the UK. the UK has been de-industrialising for decades now and what industrial jobs remain are increasingly being mechanised. At the same time, the borders were opened and the job market was saturated with literally millions of competing workers.

    Everyone thinks its the poor and working class who have to compete with the cheap labour flooding the economy, but its not. the middle class are also competing. For example, there are over 70 applicants for every graduate job.

    But, who are you talking about exactly with the poor work ethics? The 40% of Pakistanis who are unemployed? the 40% of Bangledeshis who are unemployed? The 40% black Africans who are unemployed? The 20% of `indians who are unemployed? Who exactly has the bad work ethnic?

    I should point out, these unemployed Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Africans etc etc are all competing with immigrants for jobs and resources too.
    If we take out the Pakistani and Bangladeshi out of this as they have many issues within their community and just look at Indian, Chinese, Sri lankan communities. I guess the daily mail was right.

    Indian, Chinese families where many of them work long hours in demanding professionals tend to care more about their elderly parents and less likely to place them in old people homes. There is less divorce, less run away fathers, single mums and less children born outside wedlock.

    Now you can see Indian CEOs in many global brands, Indian companies are running brands like Jaugar-Landrover and Yardly, India has a prominent share in IT industry, India's doctors and nurses are working all over the world. ..

    Doctors, property owners/developers, politicians , shopkeepers, business leaders, every single field of wealth and importance is being overrun everyday by south and East Asians.

    We have money (Indian Hindus and Sikhs have the highest income per capita among all races in the UK)
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    (Original post by Minju)
    There are plenty of jobs available here in the UK....

    The only reason that the some people don't want to work,it's because they are lazy and have poor work ethics...
    It isn't that easy to find a job. I have tried and I have a pretty decent CV. The job market is picking up but it is difficult for those who do not have connections or have not worked before as the employers will have no reference on which to base them.

    It is exceedingly difficult for young people to find jobs in the current market.
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    Because people like to blame all their problems on anyone but themselves. Especially in times of economic hardship, when support for extremist parties increases (which is why we have seen a rise in UKIP support recently) and these extremist parties all use scapegoats.
 
 
 
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