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Feminists want us to move towards dictatorship Watch

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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Their voices shout loudest. If there are so many moderate feminists then you need to make more of an effort to disown these loons rather than attacking those like me who view men and women as equal, but don't believe that there should be special privileges for women.
    When does any form of media ever latch on to and make an example of 'moderate' cases of anything? Indeed, when does anyone really take notice of anything until they can label it 'extremist' and contrary to the views of society?
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    If that's the strongest evidence, then it seems your claim isn't very well founded. :teehee:

    Also, I love how you'reusing Nordic countries as a bad example. 'Oh no, what if we were like Scandinavia, where people are richer, healthier and more equal. Oh God, save us!'
    Classic deluded lefty. A government who will arrest you if you criticise certain groups, but hey, it's okay because you get free childcare and the rich people aren't that rich. Could you make your support for authoritarianism and contempt for freedom any more obvious?
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    (Original post by Freudian Slip)
    When does any form of media ever latch on to and make an example of 'moderate' cases of anything? Indeed, when does anyone really take notice of anything until they can label it 'extremist' and contrary to the views of a decent society?
    As I've stated already, the number of feminists who hold such views is now so large that they cannot be dismissed as fringe radicals. As I've also demonstrated, these people are already influencing government decisions in Western Europe, so please stop underplaying the problem.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Ah. That would explain why all Muslims are terrorists. :facepalm:
    I don't see Twitter and Tumblr full of Muslims calling for authoritarianism. :confused:
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    As I've stated already, the number of feminists who hold such views is now so large that they cannot be dismissed as fringe radicals. As I've also demonstrated, these people are already influencing government decisions in Western Europe, so please stop underplaying the problem.
    Well, I beg to differ.

    You haven't actually demonstrated a single thing. You've made some pretty bold statements and claims, yes, but they're hardly being backed up by any concrete evidence, bar your own anecdotes. I just think generalising the views of a whole group of people is a dangerous game, whatever the belief system in play.
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    (Original post by Freudian Slip)
    Well, I beg to differ.

    You haven't actually demonstrated a single thing. You've made some pretty bold statements and claims, yes, but they're hardly being backed up by any concrete evidence, bar your own anecdotes. I just think generalising the views of a whole group of people is a dangerous game, whatever the belief system in play.
    I posted this earlier in the thread.

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/03...dic-countries/
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Classic deluded lefty. A government who will arrest you if you criticise certain groups, but hey, it's okay because you get free childcare and the rich people aren't that rich. Could you make your support for authoritarianism and contempt for freedom any more obvious?
    I've already said I don't like authoritarianism, nor am I left wing. You're just projecting those views upon me because you can't conceive that someone might have a reasoned objection to your claims. I was just pointing out that Nordic countries do seem to be doing much better than us right now. I don't support such authoritarian laws, however.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    I've already said I don't like authoritarianism, nor am I left wing. You're just projecting those views upon me because you can't conceive that someone might have a reasoned objection to your claims. I was just pointing out that Nordic countries do seem to be doing much better than us right now. I don't support such authoritarian laws, however.
    The Nordic countries are not all evil, but the positive aspects of their state and society exist in spite of, not because of, the radical authoritarian feminism of their governments.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    I don't see Twitter and Tumblr full of Muslims calling for authoritarianism. :confused:
    But there are plenty of other places where they do call for Shariah Law and post other such extremist views, and this is all we see in the media. I'm just pointing out that extremist views are always the most noticeable. The reason Twitter and Tumblr are full of radical feminism, but not radical Islam is because of the user-base of those sites. Plus, I imagine if you struggle to avoid it on Twitter and Tumblr, then you go looking for feminist stuff. It's pretty easy to just not follow feminists.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    I posted this earlier in the thread.

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/03...dic-countries/
    This demonstrates what, exactly, in your view?
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    (Original post by Freudian Slip)
    This demonstrates what, exactly, in your view?
    That radical feminism is leading to authoritarian government and the removal of freedom of speech in parts of Western Europe already, and could come here soon if we don't stand up to radical feminism.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    But there are plenty of other places where they do call for Shariah Law and post other such extremist views, and this is all we see in the media. I'm just pointing out that extremist views are always the most noticeable. The reason Twitter and Tumblr are full of radical feminism, but not radical Islam is because of the user-base of those sites. Plus, I imagine if you struggle to avoid it on Twitter and Tumblr, then you go looking for feminist stuff. It's pretty easy to just not follow feminists.
    It's the radicals doing all the political campaigning though. The moderates have got to shout louder if they want to enact reasonable change in societal attitudes.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    That radical feminism is leading to authoritarian government and the removal of freedom of speech in parts of Western Europe already, and could come here soon if we don't stand up to radical feminism.
    The 'freedom of speech', as far as I can tell, is not quite the right some are keen to view it as.

    Without being completely ignorant of your views, what would you define as being 'radical feminism' then, as opposed to pro-feminism?
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    It's the radicals doing all the political campaigning though. The moderates have got to shout louder if they want to enact reasonable change in societal attitudes.
    The sad thing is that it's sort of inherent in moderates to not shout loudly. Hence my previous analogy of radical Islam - most Muslims I know are very reasonable members of society and hate extremism, but the media twists things to make them seem like enemies.
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    (Original post by Freudian Slip)
    The 'freedom of speech', as far as I can tell, is not quite the right some are keen to view it as.

    Without being completely ignorant of your views, what would you define as being 'radical feminism' then, as opposed to pro-feminism?
    Freedom of speech is an inalienable human right. The USA has the right stance on this.

    A radical feminist is anyone who wants the state to restrict freedom of speech or free enterprise to suit the feminist agenda.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    The sad thing is that it's sort of inherent in moderates to not shout loudly. Hence my previous analogy of radical Islam - most Muslims I know are very reasonable members of society and hate extremism, but the media twists things to make them seem like enemies.
    I agree. This therefore needs to change if extremism is to be adequately tackled.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    I agree. This therefore needs to change if extremism is to be adequately tackled.
    Or we could just ignore the extremists...
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Or we could just ignore the extremists...
    They're near impossible to ignore when the media (Guardian, I'm looking at you) gives them space every 5 minutes.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Freedom of speech is an inalienable human right. The USA has the right stance on this.

    A radical feminist is anyone who wants the state to restrict freedom of speech or free enterprise to suit the feminist agenda.
    Only, it isn't.

    http://thebackbencher.co.uk/freedom-...p-and-go-home/

    'Claiming the freedom of speech as a "right" weakens the very concept of rights. You do not have the right to say what you want, where you want or when you want. If FoS were a right then no-one would be legitimised in shutting you up at any point'.
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    (Original post by Freudian Slip)


    Only, it isn't.

    http://thebackbencher.co.uk/freedom-...p-and-go-home/

    'Claiming the freedom of speech as a "right" weakens the very concept of rights. You do not have the right to say what you want, where you want or when you want. If FoS were a right then no-one would be legitimised in shutting you up at any point'.
    A comment by "Alisdair" underneath that article sums up my views on the matter. The article isn't entirely wrong but is badly wrong to state that free speech is not a right.

    (Original post by Alisdair)
    I understand the point you’re making here, but even if you take the view that freedom of speech is contingent on property rights and contracts, it is still a right; just one that doesn’t apply always and everywhere. As you say, ‘Free speech is absolute, on your own property’; so a government that limits your freedom to speak on your own property (or on another’s property where they have agreed to it) is infringing your rights. I guess this is partly a question of semantics – whether you view ‘freedom of speech’ as fundamental or derived from property rights – but either way, we can agree it’s something the government (and other people) should not be interfering with.
    Further to what Alisdair said, if the state starts telling me that I don't have the right say what I like about feminists, then yes, that is a breach of my rights. What the author of the article is correct to point out is that if I were to go to a radical feminist's home, and express opposition to her views, she would have every right to kick me out and I couldn't use my right to freedom of speech as a justification for staying.
 
 
 
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