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Farage talks sense on immigration Watch

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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    So does the UK.
    Not for EU migrants we don't.

    We have the right to refuse entry to any EU citizen who poses a threat to public health.
    We have the right to refuse EU citizens on such grounds.
    No we do not. They are not under any obligation to declare health issues. I lived in Germany and didn't have to mention mine at all. I just moved there with some money to get myself going.
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    (Original post by Sanctimonious)
    Not for EU migrants we don't.


    No we do not. They are not under any obligation to declare health issues. I lived in Germany and didn't have to mention mine at all. I just moved there with some money to get myself going.
    Yes we do. We can refuse people entry and, if in country, remove them. This is a very useful thing considering how rampant tuberculosis, yellow fever and so on are on the continent. Not only can we refuse people entry on such grounds but you're complaining about not being able to pre-screen people from a continent that it would be utterly ridiculous to pre-screen because the risk is so absurdly low and the cost high.
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    (Original post by Sanctimonious)
    "The Aussies have a points system and they say to come to Australia you must be under 45 years of age, you must have a skill or a trade that will bring a benefit to our country.

    They say if you have a life threatening disease, I'm sorry but we can't accommodate you. They say if you have a serious criminal record we won't have you...

    What they also say is we don't care whether you're black or white or yellow or what your religion is but if you come to our country and you come here to take citizenship you become part of us and you become part of our Australian dream, namely the integrationist message. That is exactly what we should be doing."


    So true!!! Farage talks sense and would make a great prime minister.

    Vote UKIP.
    Absolutely mate. Of course, UKIP have been consistently winning the arguments for the last decade but the frothing liberals don't care about arguments and have only been interested in smearing UKIP as racist, islamophobic, blah blah.... and perpetuating these smears. Was it not Joseph Goebbels who said, "the more you repeat something over and over, the more people begin to believe it." These smears have no basis in reality. I have supported UKIP for 3 years now and am seeing it grow exponentially. I believe in trends, and I feel it is only a matter of time before UKIP overtakes the conservatives and labour for the general election.
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    (Original post by jcarz)
    Absolutely mate. Of course, UKIP have been consistently winning the arguments for the last decade but the frothing liberals don't care about arguments and have only been interested in smearing UKIP as racist, islamophobic, blah blah.... and perpetuating these smears. Was it not Joseph Goebbels who said, "the more you repeat something over and over, the more people begin to believe it." These smears have no basis in reality. I have supported UKIP for 3 years now and am seeing it grow exponentially. I believe in trends, and I feel it is only a matter of time before UKIP overtakes the conservatives and labour for the general election.
    Wouldn't so far as to say they'll do that well as to win a general election if they ever forget a LONG way off at the moment
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    Question for Ukippers:
    If we left the EU, would UK nationals not lose the right to move and work freely within Europe? Would UK nationals not have to pay the same fees as Americans, Asians, etc. to study in EU states?

    It would make little difference to wealthy pensioners, highly skilled workers, footballers, businessmen and the rich in general, but would not most people thereby lose a fundamental freedom and indeed safeguard against intolerable government, namely the freedom to move abroad?
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    Of course we would but look at the eu right now nobody wants to move to any countries in it unless forced by their work because other than Germany which itself has just gone into recession why leave the uk? The 2nd fastest growing economy in Europe and only small countries are near our growth speed
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    The rest of the countries Greece Spain Ireland Portugal Italy France etc are all in serious trouble why should we be forced to keep ourselves in when were the only major economy that's achieving anything? Why hold us back?
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    (Original post by Rorystheman)
    Of course we would but look at the eu right now nobody wants to move to any countries in it unless forced by their work because other than Germany which itself has just gone into recession why leave the uk? The 2nd fastest growing economy in Europe and only small countries are near our growth speed
    Why leave the UK? Everyone has their reasons. Moving abroad and working in other countries is a formative experience. And anyway, some Brits just don't like living here and would rather work elsewhere, just as some Germans, Yanks or whatever prefer other countries to their own. Add to this that your skills may command higher salaries and higher standards of life in other places. For example, English speaking au pairs command higher salaries in France than they do here for obvious reasons.

    You say that the UK is growing faster than the rest of the EU, but that hasn't always been the case and can't permanently be the case - Poland has been growing faster than us since the collapse of Communism, for example. Right now, South and Eastern European migrants come to Britain because it's tough there. But in the future, who knows, we might want to emigrate.

    But all this is besides the point. What I'm saying is rich people, who are always welcome anywhere, will still be able to move to Europe if they wish. Those at the bottom will be literally stuck in Britain at the mercy of any government.
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    We live in a fair democratic society an one of the most accepting of other people nationalities, beliefs etc in the world, saying 'at the mercy of our government' makes it sounds as if it's a totalitarian dictatorship we will still welcome migrants but have our own control over who and how many come in atm we often can't stop convicted criminals from coming from other eh countries how is that fair? If anything were at the mercy of Brussels atm
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    (Original post by Rorystheman)
    We live in a fair democratic society an one of the most accepting of other people nationalities, beliefs etc in the world, saying 'at the mercy of our government' makes it sounds as if it's a totalitarian dictatorship we will still welcome migrants but have our own control over who and how many come in atm we often can't stop convicted criminals from coming from other eh countries how is that fair? If anything were at the mercy of Brussels atm
    No, we live in a democracy which may at any moment become a tyranny of the majority, if it isn't already. A fundamental libertarian freedom is to leave the country if you don't like the way it's being run. I've met many ordinary Brits who have moved abroad because 'they didn't like the way England was going' (Read: too many people of colour). If you're British but would rather live elsewhere, if only temporarily, you should be able to do that. All I'm saying is that if we leave the EU and accept only the best and brightest EU migrants, then the EU will accept only the best and brightest of our own. So those at the top are fine, but those at the bottom who don't have that mobility will lose out. I'm not saying it's worth staying in the EU solely because it gives us freedom to work in other countries, but it certainly is an important factor even if we have to put up with more immigration than we might like as a consequence.
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    But you've implicitly accepted my point: some people, mostly poor, would lose out. Also, if the government knows that people won't leave, it may be more inclined to coerce or override the wishes of the people. But that's only one side of the ledger: why do you feel that EU migration to Britain is, on the whole, bad? Much of it is temporary anyway: as soon as Southern/Eastern Europe pick up we'll see people move back to those countries in numbers. Think about it like this: average spending per pupil in the UK is something like £7000, times that by 13 years, add on child benefit and that's the amount the UK has expended on your human capital. In Europe, education spending is generally lower and there are fewer benefits, but the average EU immigrant if educated to Master's degree level (and remember that most universities in the EU are state funded with very low tuition fees) will have had €100.000 or so spent on his formation, on his human capital. When they come to Britain they bring all of that with them, so EU immigration is as close as you can get to a free lunch. What is your major quarrel with it?
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    (Original post by Pee jay)
    No, we live in a democracy which may at any moment become a tyranny of the majority, if it isn't already. A fundamental libertarian freedom is to leave the country if you don't like the way it's being run. I've met many ordinary Brits who have moved abroad because 'they didn't like the way England was going' (Read: too many people of colour). If you're British but would rather live elsewhere, if only temporarily, you should be able to do that. All I'm saying is that if we leave the EU and accept only the best and brightest EU migrants, then the EU will accept only the best and brightest of our own. So those at the top are fine, but those at the bottom who don't have that mobility will lose out. I'm not saying it's worth staying in the EU solely because it gives us freedom to work in other countries, but it certainly is an important factor even if we have to put up with more immigration than we might like as a consequence.
    Well if someone genuinely leaves because theirs 'too many people of colour' then that's plain racism and quite ridiculous
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    (Original post by Rorystheman)
    Well if someone genuinely leaves because theirs 'too many people of colour' then that's plain racism and quite ridiculous
    That's your opinion. They're happier elsewhere and that's what counts.
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    For anyone to think you need to be a part of political union to do well and trade successfully with other nations is basically admitting to everyone here you are swallowing what the news (BBC in particular) is telling you.

    To think political union is mandatory for a good economy or that the two are 100% linked is just dishonest and ignorant of how the global economy really works.

    Being out of the EU will change us for the better... economically, democratically and culturally.


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    I dislike one of the arguments above, which states that we have to follow the EU laws.


    We have opted out of the Schengen Agreement, and therefore can check passports before allowing entry into the UK.
    We have opted out of the Eurozone, and therefore have kept the £.
    We have opted out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, giving us a great control over our laws.
    We have a case-by-case opt out of the Area of freedom, security, and justice. This means that we can basically control all of our security, crime, and similar laws.

    We are only a part of two incredibly important elements of the EU: the Common Security and Defence policy, and the EU Labour Laws. The EU Labour Laws are incredibly important in protecting the rights of workers, and the content of their products.


    I recall there recently being an article in the Daily Mail, or a similar right-wing tabloid. It featured a headline stating how the EU laws were "ruining" the UK, and had a whole article full of similar nonsense. After almost dying of boredom, I managed to reach the bottom of the page where they gave examples of the laws that affect the UK, and I was shocked at how these could be thought to be bad. They were laws against chemicals that are allowed into foods/drinks in the United States, but have been proven to cause heart disease and many similar complaints. And this is what the right-wing tabloid said is ruining the UK.


    Leaving the EU would damage our economy and trade links greatly, with us currently exporting more to the EU than we import from the EU. Yes, there is an argument regarding the Commonwealth and how we should be able to survive off that - oh please, exporting to countries where they won't need our goods, and also places that have been damaged by the wars we started in them many years ago, with people unable to afford our products? The thought that we'd be able to re-negotiate a new deal with the EU member states is a thought worth laughing at - do you seriously think they're going to give us a better deal just because some people who can't get a job and never tried at school decided to blame everything on immigration and start worshipping a hypocritical man?

    I also remember UKIP rambling on about how thousands of Romanians will be coming to the UK on 1 January. What happened? 400 more EU citizens left the UK than came in.

    /rant
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    (Original post by georgen13)
    I dislike one of the arguments above, which states that we have to follow the EU laws.


    I also remember UKIP rambling on about how thousands of Romanians will be coming to the UK on 1 January. What happened? 400 more EU citizens left the UK than came in.

    /rant
    That was then... Have you not been following the news in last 2 months?


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    I disagree with unlimited mass migration that has no indication of ever ending. Migrants may supposedly have an overall positive impact and I'm sure most are hard workers. Are they really beneficial for the average person though? House prices and rent is ridiculously high as there are more and more people in the country with house building at a very, very low rate. Most people have seen real terms pay cuts ever since the 'credit crunch' or before. Too much supply for the demand? The NHS is said to be under massive strain. Again this is unsurprising given that they too have had a real terms funding cut with more people to handle and an ageing population. None of these issues are entirely down to immigration, but it certainly doesn't always help matters. BTW I don't support any political party......
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    (Original post by JohnPaul_)
    That was then... Have you not been following the news in last 2 months?


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    It's an example.

    I'm not a fan of reading any of Farage's Euroscepticism, and to me it just seems like an intention to votestack.

    Imagine what happens if UKIP get elected? We leave the EU, and then are left with a party with no other policies and absolutely no parliamentary experience.
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    The problem with populist parties, such as UKIP, is that they offer simple answers to very complex issues. Their appeal is based on 'common sense'. This is a highly subjective, because one must ask "Common to who, exactly?"

    "Common sense politics" is an oxymoron, because the true nature of politics is concerns complexity beyond the structure of government.

    I understand UKIP's appeal, but in practice their policies will only benefit a few, and be disastrous for most. Take their flat tax policy, for example: our crucial public services will become privatised and the whole nature of 'free healthcare' will just be big business. While our current system is by no means perfect, I feel the phrase "the lesser of two evils" is most opportune.

    Furthermore, people do not see the bigoted tarnish behind their LGBT stances. They claim the reason why they are against gay marriage is because the ECHR will throw a hoo-ha when churches refuse to marry same-sex couples. But hang on, I thought the whole idea of UKIP was independence?!

    Be careful. UKIP are not what they seem.
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    Farage said something that I agreed with today on the news - that's a first! It was about ways to react to the crisis of Brits fighting on the side of ISIS and how to act about them. Revoking their passports (for ISIS supporters who have citizenship but have no origins in Britain) is a good idea, but what if they were born and bred in Britain? What could we do then?
 
 
 
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