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Internatioal products produced from Israel? Watch

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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    big pic

    Never saw this one here



    (Original post by Guybrush Sheepgood)
    This thread is hilarious because most of you are typing this on a computer that uses components from Israel!

    If you wanna boycott Israel you have to go all the way mate, nothing from IBM (they have a lab in Israel), no USB flash drives, no using Windows, no Kindles, no using a computer printer of any kind.

    Good luck with that, you use Israeli products every day HAHAHAHAHA
    There is a considerable distinction between Intellectual property & a Tangible property, Mr.Sheep. My attempt is only to shun the latter.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaand, if Microsoft's Israeli-R&D develops some component that completes the Windows OS, it doesn't essentially make Windows "Made in Israel".

    Top bs marks for you anyway laters
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    (Original post by ronmack)
    I was going to buy an HP laptop, I guess that's out of the list.
    I can't understand a boycott. These companies aren't connected to the Israeli government. The people running them might not support the government, or even be interested in politics/international relations at all, so why boycott, it just seems like a nonsense to me.

    (Original post by Cyphrex)
    Israel is reaponsible for the whole situation. Hamas wouldnt have been created or have as much support if it wasnt for them treating them ad 2nd class citizens.
    No, Hamas and the people of the Gaza Strip who voted them in are responsible. Israel doesn't treat them as second class citizens. Money given to the government in the Gaza Strip by the US and the EU is spent on rockets and military hardware, instead of people. Hamas and the Gaza Strip should accept Israel's right to exist, and accept it as a Jewish state.

    (Original post by lilypear)
    Sorry but didn't the extreme Israelites say that they want to "Push Palestinians out into the sea", tell me that that isn't the same as the HAMAS objectives ?
    Israel is a liberal democracy, with many different political parties that want different things. From the Labor Party of Israel, that is opposed to settlement, to parties that view the whole of that land (so Israel + WB + Gaza Strip) as belonging to the people of Israel. But the government's position is not one of pushing anybody into the Sea. Where as the Hamas government position wants to wipe out Israel.

    (Original post by adamsmithqm)
    Right to defend themselves? Have you even seen the countless numbers of dead children? Have you looked at how Israel bombed the house of the Police Chief killing 18 members of his family including children?

    Have some humility! THEY KILLED INNOCENT CHILDREN BY BOMBING A HOUSE! This is not my opinion, it is a fact and it happened not 2 days ago.

    This isn't defence, it is genocide. The Palestinians fire one rocket for the hundred Israel showers down. Israel is the aggressor and has been since 1948 by invading Palestinian land.
    Any loss of life from a conflict is very sad and should be avoided at all costs. The thing I can't understand is, why were there 18 people in the house? If it's quite clear that Israel are going to bomb anything which could be a threat to it, then you'd look at getting people out of the houses of people connected to the Hamas military/police. You wouldn't keep them in to make a point. Why was there 18 people in a house belonging to the militant?

    Why are Hamas firing rockets at Israel from densely populated areas? They are using human shields to try and drum up support from the international community. Why not build the rockets in other places?

    Your last point, Israel has a better army and better military capabilities, therefore are able to carry out more attacks.

    (Original post by themorninglight)
    Maybe because the very existence of Israel is a threat to Palestine?
    The State of Israel already exists. Palestine as an independent free sovereign nation will not arrive until people in the territories stop becoming a threat to Israel's very existence. There are 50+ majority Muslim states, give the Jews just one.

    (Original post by lilypear)
    Before the Jewish genocide in Germany the "Israel" as we know it was mainly Palestinian. The refugees who were escaping Hitlers wrath decided to go to Israel and over time they took it over pushing the Palestinians out of their own town/city and eventually suffering from extreme poverty. If anything, Palestinians are being denied of their own human rights and in fact, you are wrong. Israel would have ceased to exist without Americas intervention and supplying of $8 Million dollars a day from tax payers. Israelis out there right now are sitting on the hills and cheering and clapping when a bomb hits Gaza, and that isn't right. The Jews may bring out the Torah and say that this land belongs to them as it has the most sacred place of their faith, but that's not right either.
    In comparison to how many Palestinians are being killed every minute are exceeding the death tolls of those from Israel.
    The Jews there may use the guilt card of being involved in a mass genocide, but in reality, they are retaliating what the Nazis did to them, but with bombs. Did they not learn anything? Palestinians have little to none ammunition in comparison to America and you see kids in Palestine trying to protect their mothers with ROCKS.
    I am not crazy, Israel needs to stop.
    This is not correct, Jews were on that land long before the Arabs. Jews were kicked out by force by the Roman Empire. The Romans destroyed the Temple in around 70AD, the Bar Kochba Revolt was suppressed between 132 and 135AD and Jericho and Bethlehem were destroyed in the process. The Roman Emperor Hadrian expelled the Jews and wanted to destroy their identity, so he named the territory Palestina. So don't give me the doctrine that Jews only arrived recently.

    What happened in the Holocaust, was that 6 million European Jews were wiped out in gas chambers simply because they were Jewish. The idea of comparing rocket attacks based on defence to this is utterly ridiculous. I'd advise you to rethink, possibly including a visit to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington and then come back and tell me its the same.

    Good on America for standing up for Israel as well. Two of the great nations on this planet.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Israel is a liberal democracy, with many different political parties that want different things. From the Labor Party of Israel, that is opposed to settlement, to parties that view the whole of that land (so Israel + WB + Gaza Strip) as belonging to the people of Israel. But the government's position is not one of pushing anybody into the Sea. Where as the Hamas government position wants to wipe out Israel.
    There may be some Israeli's out there who actually want to make peace but the way the government and the military are handling the situation is horrible.

    Realistically, Eboracum, do you really think the Palestinians are in a position to cower down and let the Israeli's take over the land which they were once newcomers to? The Americans fund Israel all of this petty money to buy fancy ammunition whereas the Palestinians have next to nothing. It's hardly a threat to Israeli's but they're taking an advantage of the bloodshed that they're currently enjoying while they're sitting on a hill dancing and being happy while bombs are dropping on Gaza.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    This is not correct, Jews were on that land long before the Arabs. Jews were kicked out by force by the Roman Empire. The Romans destroyed the Temple in around 70AD, the Bar Kochba Revolt was suppressed between 132 and 135AD and Jericho and Bethlehem were destroyed in the process. The Roman Emperor Hadrian expelled the Jews and wanted to destroy their identity, so he named the territory Palestina. So don't give me the doctrine that Jews only arrived recently.

    What happened in the Holocaust, was that 6 million European Jews were wiped out in gas chambers simply because they were Jewish. The idea of comparing rocket attacks based on defence to this is utterly ridiculous. I'd advise you to rethink, possibly including a visit to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington and then come back and tell me its the same.

    Good on America for standing up for Israel as well. Two of the great nations on this planet.
    Instead of bringing back Ancient history into this argument, consider the fact that governments of today and present create laws for a reason and ancient history is not going to back those laws up, but if you insist, let's dwell into Ancient history.

    Jerusalem, the place where all Jews deem to be highly significant to their religion, was NOT founded by Jews. In fact, It was founded by West Semitic peoples between 3000-2600 BCE. These WS include Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians and some Jews, but during that time Jews didn't even cease to exist.

    Jerusalem is said to be built up by the Jewish people, who in fact didn't exist at that time, around 1000 BCE. In fact, Jerusalem at that time was hardly inhabited by any of the Palestinians or the Israelis. There is no evidence at this time that said David was deemed to have been where he lived. In fact, there is nothing in geographical Palestine that suggest anything about David, only Assyrian Tablets which have inscriptions about Arab queens.

    The Jews were not in fact the first people to have conquered the land at all. Let me show you how things panned out:

    1 - Assyrian (Ancestral to BOTH Arabic and Hebrew) (Which shows that both belong in the same place and not one taking over the other) - 722 BCE
    2 - Babylonians - 579 BCE
    3 - Achaemenids - 539 BCE
    4 - Alexander the Great - 330 BCE
    5 - Jewish Hasmonean - 158 BCE

    Surely you can see for yourself that the Jews were not the main hereditary takers of geographical Palestine.

    When the Romans were expelled from Palestine in 614 AD by the Iranian Empire until 629 AD when it was taken over by the Byzantines.
    The MUSLIMS took over the land in 638 AD until 1099 AD, before being quickly conquered by the Crusaders (who killed many many Jews and Muslims) but regained it back again in 1187 AD. The Muslims who occupied it back allowed the Jews to return back to Palestine.

    If anything, the Jews ruled Palestine for only almost no longer than 170 Years e.g Hasmoneans, so please stop telling me that the land belongs to the Jews,

    Speaking of modern day laws passed down by the government. The Palestinians in the MODERN day had the majority (95%) of Palestine before 1946.
    1) Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949
    2) Hague Relations 1907

    These two powers in turn forbids occupying powers to alter the lifeways of civilians who are ALREADY occupied of the land (Palestinians). Israel expelled most of the Palestinians in their own homes and settled their own Israelis on Palestinian land, which obviously breaks those laws.

    For your information, I didn't refer to the Holocaust or the gassing of Jews, I'm referring to the genocide that the Israelis are only building up upon killing innocent civilians of Muslim religion. Therefore your argument here is invalid. Over time the deaths are only accumulating, not only in Gaza but the little land that the Palestinians have left.

    The Israelis have received a whopping $100 Billion into Israel. There are so many Jewish people residing in America, it's not a surprise that they would snuggle up to Israel so that they can buy **** tonnes of tanks and warheads while the Palestinians have little firepower/ammunition.


    Soznotsoz for the long reply.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I can't understand a boycott. These companies aren't connected to the Israeli government. The people running them might not support the government, or even be interested in politics/international relations at all, so why boycott, it just seems like a nonsense to me.



    No, Hamas and the people of the Gaza Strip who voted them in are responsible. Israel doesn't treat them as second class citizens. Money given to the government in the Gaza Strip by the US and the EU is spent on rockets and military hardware, instead of people. Hamas and the Gaza Strip should accept Israel's right to exist, and accept it as a Jewish state.



    Israel is a liberal democracy, with many different political parties that want different things. From the Labor Party of Israel, that is opposed to settlement, to parties that view the whole of that land (so Israel + WB + Gaza Strip) as belonging to the people of Israel. But the government's position is not one of pushing anybody into the Sea. Where as the Hamas government position wants to wipe out Israel.



    Any loss of life from a conflict is very sad and should be avoided at all costs. The thing I can't understand is, why were there 18 people in the house? If it's quite clear that Israel are going to bomb anything which could be a threat to it, then you'd look at getting people out of the houses of people connected to the Hamas military/police. You wouldn't keep them in to make a point. Why was there 18 people in a house belonging to the militant?

    Why are Hamas firing rockets at Israel from densely populated areas? They are using human shields to try and drum up support from the international community. Why not build the rockets in other places?

    Your last point, Israel has a better army and better military capabilities, therefore are able to carry out more attacks.



    The State of Israel already exists. Palestine as an independent free sovereign nation will not arrive until people in the territories stop becoming a threat to Israel's very existence. There are 50+ majority Muslim states, give the Jews just one.



    This is not correct, Jews were on that land long before the Arabs. Jews were kicked out by force by the Roman Empire. The Romans destroyed the Temple in around 70AD, the Bar Kochba Revolt was suppressed between 132 and 135AD and Jericho and Bethlehem were destroyed in the process. The Roman Emperor Hadrian expelled the Jews and wanted to destroy their identity, so he named the territory Palestina. So don't give me the doctrine that Jews only arrived recently.

    What happened in the Holocaust, was that 6 million European Jews were wiped out in gas chambers simply because they were Jewish. The idea of comparing rocket attacks based on defence to this is utterly ridiculous. I'd advise you to rethink, possibly including a visit to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington and then come back and tell me its the same.

    Good on America for standing up for Israel as well. Two of the great nations on this planet.
    Oh so then its just tough luck that 18 innocent people were killed? No biggy its war and it happens? Is that what you are saying?

    Please don't tell me you are putting the blame on there being 18 people in a HOUSE and not the fact that Israel fired rockets at a home they knew had children inside of it.

    The fact is that Israel doesn't care whether children are killed and they say that the killing of a couple children is justified if they are taking out a target.

    Oh and do you know what the best part is? The Police Chief actually survived the attack. I don't even know how Israel (despite being the terrorist state that it is) can justify that.


    Regarding the holocaust point. That makes it even worse. A people who have been persecuted for centuries and even undergone a genocide think it's okay to persecute the innocent Palestinian people.

    Also, lets not confuse Jews with Zionists. They are very different things.
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    No point in arguing with Eboracum. He is a media fed brain dead Zombie.
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    (Original post by lilypear)
    There may be some Israeli's out there who actually want to make peace but the way the government and the military are handling the situation is horrible.

    Realistically, Eboracum, do you really think the Palestinians are in a position to cower down and let the Israeli's take over the land which they were once newcomers to? The Americans fund Israel all of this petty money to buy fancy ammunition whereas the Palestinians have next to nothing. It's hardly a threat to Israeli's but they're taking an advantage of the bloodshed that they're currently enjoying while they're sitting on a hill dancing and being happy while bombs are dropping on Gaza.
    The trouble is, given the situation in the Middle East, that of the security paradigm, the Israeli Government is acting entirely rational and reasonable. Realistically Lily, if you are Israel, you're in a region surrounded by countries that are extremely hostile to you, history shows you can't rely on the international community as they withdraw whenever tension brews, and you've had a movement in terms of the Zionists trying to get a state for many years...once you get it you'll defend it at all costs. Anything seen as a threat to you, you'll destroy and rightly so. The only person they can rely on is themselves. Nobody ever subordinates to somebody else in International Relations. It's as Patrick Henry remarked: Give me liberty or give me death. What we need to see, is Israel's security and peace guaranteed. Israel is reasonable. They withdrew from Sinai giving it back to Egypt, they withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they'll do the same once their security is guaranteed.

    The Palestinians receive funding from both the US and the EU, and the reason the living standards are better in the West Bank than the Gaza Strip is because the money is better spent.

    The rest, with the silly catchphrase at the end was just show off alternative university girl nonsense. Anybody can copy and paste a google searched pro-Palestine view of history I'm afraid. I brought history in because your post gave off the impression you felt the Jews were new, when evidence suggests they've been their since the dawn of time. They weren't all evicted during the Roman assault either, small clusters remained. Of course, the history of the world is based on one stronger group removing land from a weaker group, it becomes a slippery slope as where does one stop. Generally I prefer to address it as a modern political issue.

    (Original post by adamsmithqm)
    Oh so then its just tough luck that 18 innocent people were killed? No biggy its war and it happens? Is that what you are saying?

    Please don't tell me you are putting the blame on there being 18 people in a HOUSE and not the fact that Israel fired rockets at a home they knew had children inside of it.

    The fact is that Israel doesn't care whether children are killed and they say that the killing of a couple children is justified if they are taking out a target.

    Oh and do you know what the best part is? The Police Chief actually survived the attack. I don't even know how Israel (despite being the terrorist state that it is) can justify that.

    Regarding the holocaust point. That makes it even worse. A people who have been persecuted for centuries and even undergone a genocide think it's okay to persecute the innocent Palestinian people.

    Also, lets not confuse Jews with Zionists. They are very different things.
    There's a few points I'd make here Adam. No, any loss of civilian life is terrible tragic. It's easy for us to sit in Western lavish countries and comment on it, it must be horrendous to be there. I accept that. The point I was trying to make is that a) It won't stop Israel's attacks nor should it, civilian casualties are always in war viewed as collateral damage (seems to be the same when Hamas kill Israelis) and b) It doesn't alter my pro-Israeli position giving them the right to defend themselves.

    Israel does a lot to warn people it is carrying out attacks. Why do Hamas integrate it's military, it's weaponry with the general public. There are strong accusations of human shielding.

    Your last sentence didn't make sense, stating the obvious Adam.
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    @Eboracum:

    You would expect a country that tend to boast themselves as the forerunners in innovation, or whatever-it-is, could at least respect and safeguard human values and whatnot.

    Supporting Israel is basically agreeing to genocide
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I can't understand a boycott. These companies aren't connected to the Israeli government. The people running them might not support the government, or even be interested in politics/international relations at all, so why boycott, it just seems like a nonsense to me.
    The companies pay taxes. I refuse to buy from the country that breaks international law and kills innocent people. If I won't buy hopefully it will effect their revenue and maybe move their HQ
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    The trouble is, given the situation in the Middle East, that of the security paradigm, the Israeli Government is acting entirely rational and reasonable. Realistically Lily, if you are Israel, you're in a region surrounded by countries that are extremely hostile to you, history shows you can't rely on the international community as they withdraw whenever tension brews, and you've had a movement in terms of the Zionists trying to get a state for many years...once you get it you'll defend it at all costs. Anything seen as a threat to you, you'll destroy and rightly so. The only person they can rely on is themselves. Nobody ever subordinates to somebody else in International Relations. It's as Patrick Henry remarked: Give me liberty or give me death. What we need to see, is Israel's security and peace guaranteed. Israel is reasonable. They withdrew from Sinai giving it back to Egypt, they withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they'll do the same once their security is guaranteed.

    The Palestinians receive funding from both the US and the EU, and the reason the living standards are better in the West Bank than the Gaza Strip is because the money is better spent.

    The rest, with the silly catchphrase at the end was just show off alternative university girl nonsense. Anybody can copy and paste a google searched pro-Palestine view of history I'm afraid. I brought history in because your post gave off the impression you felt the Jews were new, when evidence suggests they've been their since the dawn of time. They weren't all evicted during the Roman assault either, small clusters remained. Of course, the history of the world is based on one stronger group removing land from a weaker group, it becomes a slippery slope as where does one stop. Generally I prefer to address it as a modern political issue.
    First of all I would like to point out that Israel hardly anything to protect themselves from, since the Americans funded them to get a bloody anti-missile dome, 0 Israeli death, albeit 3 injured. I don't see that as being rational if no one from the Israeli side has died.

    Realistically, hardly any countries are hostile to Israel. Most countries support them because of underlying ancestral roots of Jews in their own countries, and America is one of THE biggest country to supply over $100 Billion to a country alone for warheads and ammunition. Sure, there might be some support for the Palestinians but realistically we are looking at a mere amount of money. Also, if you want to talk realistically, what allied countries are going to help Palestine? Syria? They're having their own issues, Iraq? Oh wait, they're also having an underlying issue in their own country, and what a surprise, it's against America! What countries in the middle East are there to help them when they're involved in something else or the other? and if they're helping other countries, do you think there will be any money there to help the Palestinians? No.

    "Anything seen as a threat to you, you'll destroy and rightly so"

    So you're saying that if Palestinians are throwing rocks at tanks and all these bloody upmarket ammunition, Israel has a right to drop 400 bombs on Gaza alone? That's stupendous.

    Researching pro-Palestinian history isn't the case since I stated relevant laws and decrees and in fact, replying to your Ancient history rubbish about the Jews being there first when in fact it was both.

    Meaning that it should belong to both equally. Not 95% Israeli and 5% of what's habitable land for Palestine.

    I wasn't stating the Jews were new, but they certainly didn't exist until after 1300 BCE, and obviously did not found the land that is geographical Palestine. I didn't say that the Jews were wiped out of the revolt either, so please stop assuming such stupid things.
    It certainly isn't a modern political issue when thousand of people are dying needlessly and the Israelis are saying that it's Hamas' fault.
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    (Original post by lilypear)
    First of all I would like to point out that Israel hardly anything to protect themselves from, since the Americans funded them to get a bloody anti-missile dome, 0 Israeli death, albeit 3 injured. I don't see that as being rational if no one from the Israeli side has died.Realistically, hardly any countries are hostile to Israel. Most countries support them because of underlying ancestral roots of Jews in their own countries, and America is one of THE biggest country to supply over $100 Billion to a country alone for warheads and ammunition. Sure, there might be some support for the Palestinians but realistically we are looking at a mere amount of money. Also, if you want to talk realistically, what allied countries are going to help Palestine? Syria? They're having their own issues, Iraq? Oh wait, they're also having an underlying issue in their own country, and what a surprise, it's against America! What countries in the middle East are there to help them when they're involved in something else or the other? and if they're helping other countries, do you think there will be any money there to help the Palestinians? No."Anything seen as a threat to you, you'll destroy and rightly so"So you're saying that if Palestinians are throwing rocks at tanks and all these bloody upmarket ammunition, Israel has a right to drop 400 bombs on Gaza alone? That's stupendous.Researching pro-Palestinian history isn't the case since I stated relevant laws and decrees and in fact, replying to your Ancient history rubbish about the Jews being there first when in fact it was both.Meaning that it should belong to both equally. Not 95% Israeli and 5% of what's habitable land for Palestine.I wasn't stating the Jews were new, but they certainly didn't exist until after 1300 BCE, and obviously did not found the land that is geographical Palestine. I didn't say that the Jews were wiped out of the revolt either, so please stop assuming such stupid things.It certainly isn't a modern political issue when thousand of people are dying needlessly and the Israelis are saying that it's Hamas' fault.
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    (Original post by Jalal Uddin)
    +1
    Fanx :kiss:
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    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/netanyahu...fend-missiles/

    Useless pm



    and 0 Israeli
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    (Original post by RedArrow)
    Supporting Israel is basically agreeing to genocide
    I don't accept that Arrow. Supporting Israel is acknowledging a countries right to self-deference and existence.

    (Original post by lilypear)
    First of all I would like to point out that Israel hardly anything to protect themselves from, since the Americans funded them to get a bloody anti-missile dome, 0 Israeli death, albeit 3 injured. I don't see that as being rational if no one from the Israeli side has died.

    Realistically, hardly any countries are hostile to Israel. Most countries support them because of underlying ancestral roots of Jews in their own countries, and America is one of THE biggest country to supply over $100 Billion to a country alone for warheads and ammunition. Sure, there might be some support for the Palestinians but realistically we are looking at a mere amount of money. Also, if you want to talk realistically, what allied countries are going to help Palestine? Syria? They're having their own issues, Iraq? Oh wait, they're also having an underlying issue in their own country, and what a surprise, it's against America! What countries in the middle East are there to help them when they're involved in something else or the other? and if they're helping other countries, do you think there will be any money there to help the Palestinians? No.

    "Anything seen as a threat to you, you'll destroy and rightly so"

    So you're saying that if Palestinians are throwing rocks at tanks and all these bloody upmarket ammunition, Israel has a right to drop 400 bombs on Gaza alone? That's stupendous.

    Researching pro-Palestinian history isn't the case since I stated relevant laws and decrees and in fact, replying to your Ancient history rubbish about the Jews being there first when in fact it was both.

    Meaning that it should belong to both equally. Not 95% Israeli and 5% of what's habitable land for Palestine.

    I wasn't stating the Jews were new, but they certainly didn't exist until after 1300 BCE, and obviously did not found the land that is geographical Palestine. I didn't say that the Jews were wiped out of the revolt either, so please stop assuming such stupid things.
    It certainly isn't a modern political issue when thousand of people are dying needlessly and the Israelis are saying that it's Hamas' fault.
    I would make the point again that in a conflict the number of casualties on either side does not show who the aggressor and who the victim is. Rather, it shows who has the stronger military capabilities. Which is always going to be Israel in the case of the Middle East. Israel has the right to use all its power to defend itself.

    You've made the point about the Americans twice. What would you like me to say Lily? Yes the Americans give a huge amount of funding to Israel, and so they should. They are the only country in the Middle East that understand their values of democracy, freedom of religion and liberty. Of course, you'll be aware that the US also provides large funding for Saudi Arabia and Egypt as well.

    It's not just rocks though is it Lily. Do you acknowledge the rockets fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip, there have been lots in the last 8 or 9 days. The three Israeli teenagers killed by Hamas. And just on that point, why wasn't there a huge campaign by the Western media to #Bringbackourboys as there was with the girls in Nigeria? I accept Israel carries out attacks on Hamas, but don't tell me from the other side it's just a few kids with rocks, it isn't. There have been hundreds of rockets fired by Hamas from the Gaza Strip.

    Yes, I acknowledge that both people's have been there for a long time. On your percentages however, you could argue the Arabs got their land when Transjordan was created, at least two thirds of Jordan's population was of Palestinian origin.
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    (Original post by lilypear)
    And how is that relevant to OPs post on Israel?
    I think your programmer should increase the range of responses for you. Even the Terminator had about 7 or 8 to each question.
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    (Original post by lilypear)
    x
    Both sides have committed despicable atrocities. You're kidding yourself if you think Palestine can claim any moral superiority over Israel. We can talk about which side's cause is the more justified all day long (and - if I'm honest - the Palestinians do have a better claim to the land), but it's irrelevant to the goal: making peace in the Levant.

    Here's what needs to happen:
    - Muslims need to stop hating Jews, and vice-versa*
    - The Arab World needs to stop wanting Israel to be destroyed
    - Hamas needs to stop being a terrorist organisation.

    *Obviously, not all Muslims hate Jews, and not all Jews hate Muslims.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I would make the point again that in a conflict the number of casualties on either side does not show who the aggressor and who the victim is. Rather, it shows who has the stronger military capabilities. Which is always going to be Israel in the case of the Middle East. Israel has the right to use all its power to defend itself.

    You've made the point about the Americans twice. What would you like me to say Lily? Yes the Americans give a huge amount of funding to Israel, and so they should. They are the only country in the Middle East that understand their values of democracy, freedom of religion and liberty. Of course, you'll be aware that the US also provides large funding for Saudi Arabia and Egypt as well.

    It's not just rocks though is it Lily. Do you acknowledge the rockets fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip, there have been lots in the last 8 or 9 days. The three Israeli teenagers killed by Hamas. And just on that point, why wasn't there a huge campaign by the Western media to #Bringbackourboys as there was with the girls in Nigeria? I accept Israel carries out attacks on Hamas, but don't tell me from the other side it's just a few kids with rocks, it isn't. There have been hundreds of rockets fired by Hamas from the Gaza Strip.

    Yes, I acknowledge that both people's have been there for a long time. On your percentages however, you could argue the Arabs got their land when Transjordan was created, at least two thirds of Jordan's population was of Palestinian origin.
    Surely enough, if Israel were threatened, it must be because of the non existent rise of Israeli deaths, which is blatantly not the case as there are 173 x more deaths for Palestinians. What EXACTLY are they protecting themselves from if they have their own anti-missile mechanism, and from the videos I've seen of Israeli police abusing innocent women and children, they're hardly in the right position.

    Oh no, heaven forbid that 3 Israeli teenagers have been killed when 77% of Palestinian deaths are of mothers and children.

    Perhaps there should have been one like that, but hundreds of those Nigerian girls were taken and forced to convert. The more people involved, the more coverage that the media show.

    These Palestinian kids have no idea what's going on in their home land and surely enough they have no guns or anything to use except for what little land they have left that they call home, which consists of mainly rocks and rubble, of course they're gonna use it to try defend themselves and their family.

    Just to highlight, Israelis are killing people who aren't even Hamas members, so it's completely unjust and disgusting.

    Your responses are getting ever so ridiculous so I refuse to comment any further on your claims.



    (Original post by Maker)
    I think your programmer should increase the range of responses for you. Even the Terminator had about 7 or 8 to each question.
    And how is that relevant to OPs post on Israel?

    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Both sides have committed despicable atrocities. You're kidding yourself if you think Palestine can claim any moral superiority over Israel. We can talk about which side's cause is the more justified all day long (and - if I'm honest - the Palestinians do have a better claim to the land), but it's irrelevant to the goal: making peace in the Levant.

    Here's what needs to happen:
    - Muslims need to stop hating Jews, and vice-versa*
    - The Arab World needs to stop wanting Israel to be destroyed
    - Hamas needs to stop being a terrorist organisation.

    *Obviously, not all Muslims hate Jews, and not all Jews hate Muslims.
    I don't think you've read what I wrote in the few posts before that theoretically from origins of ancient history the Jews and Palestinians should be sharing the land but in this case we can see that most Palestinian areas have been dominated by Israeli militia. Which obviously isn't right. Of course there are Jews and Muslims who just want peace and rid of all of this nonsense but that's being ignored completely as the extreme parties and military march on.
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    (Original post by Guybrush Sheepgood)
    This thread is hilarious because most of you are typing this on a computer that uses components from Israel!

    If you wanna boycott Israel you have to go all the way mate, nothing from IBM (they have a lab in Israel), no USB flash drives, no using Windows, no Kindles, no using a computer printer of any kind.

    Good luck with that, you use Israeli products every day HAHAHAHAHA
    All those companies are American, just cuz they have a mini lab there does NOT make it Israeli company. Companies have HQ all over the world.

    Here are companies from Israel
    http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/comp...country=Israel
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I don't accept that Arrow. Supporting Israel is acknowledging a countries right to self-deference and existence.
    You should be ashamed of yourself man

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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Israel is a liberal democracy, with many different political parties that want different things. From the Labor Party of Israel, that is opposed to settlement, to parties that view the whole of that land (so Israel + WB + Gaza Strip) as belonging to the people of Israel. But the government's position is not one of pushing anybody into the Sea. Where as the Hamas government position wants to wipe out Israel.
    The problem is the current government is aggressively expansionary and strongly beholden to the pro-settlement Israelis. These people feel it is their ancestral right to take land outside the 1948 and even 1967 borders forcefully off Palestinians, and the government provides the military backing to allow them to do this. Even the US has condemned this activity but the Israeli government continues to support it. The moderates in government who view these settlements as illegal, as the rest of the world does, are marginalised.

    There is also the fact that Israel is fundamentally fixated on remaining a Jewish majority state. This is why previous talks in Taba and Camp David failed - Israel did not want to grant Palestinian right to return to their homes for fear of turning into an Arab majority state.

    Fundamentally the current ideology of the Israeli government and most of its citizens is strongly supremacist and Zionist, and willing to do whatever it takes to fulfil their vision of complete Jewish land from the Jordan to the Mediterranean. I can only hope for the sake of the Palestinians that the moderates and less racist/Zionist Jews start to make their voices heard again.
 
 
 
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