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    (Original post by redferry)
    You actually think they're worse than a Tory-UKIP coalition?

    If so, at least vote green or lib dem.
    The coalition have done a surprising amount to boost industry in the West Midlands. Whilst Thatcher got the ball rolling on wrecking it, Blair's Labour stood by and allowed site closures. The coalition are the first government to wake up and try to reverse the trend. It is in fact the Labour run councils which have a lot more to be accountable for when it comes to people experiencing hardship in the region. Little Daniel Pelka a huge example.

    On a local basis I would have a strong mind to vote Tory-never thought I'd be saying that when they first came into power.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    The coalition have done a surprising amount to boost industry in the West Midlands. Whilst Thatcher got the ball rolling on wrecking it, Blair's Labour stood by and allowed site closures. The coalition are the first government to wake up and try to reverse the trend. It is in fact the Labour run councils which have a lot more to be accountable for when it comes to people experiencing hardship in the region. Little Daniel Pelka a huge example.

    On a local basis I would have a strong mind to vote Tory-never thought I'd be saying that when they first came into power.
    But that's in the local elections, nationally the Tories don't give two ****s about the Midlands, they just want to turn Birmingham into an oversized commuter town for London.

    I think wit Chukka looking after that side of things (personally I think he should be labour leader but hey ho) the current shadow cabinet would have a very different approach to Blair.


    Also don't even get me started on what the Tories are doing to Birmingham at the moment. I am so pissed off with their scapegoating and destruction of my city over the 'Trojan Horse' scandal. Bunch of London centric pricks. So so so angry.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    But that's in the local elections, nationally the Tories don't give two ****s about the Midlands, they just want to turn Birmingham into an oversized commuter town for London.

    I think wit Chukka looking after that side of things (personally I think he should be labour leader but hey ho) the current shadow cabinet would have a very different approach to Blair.


    Also don't even get me started on what the Tories are doing to Birmingham at the moment. I am so pissed off with their scapegoating and destruction of my city over the 'Trojan Horse' scandal. Bunch of London centric pricks. So so so angry.
    More to the Midlands than just Birmingham which rightly or wrongly tends to speak for the region. The investments being made in Coventry versus the feeble attempts at protecting jobs made by Labour leaves me with a dilemma. For too long has the Labour party taken votes in our region for granted and with 2 Coventry MPs standing down next year they might regret it.

    I will still probably not end up voting Tory because it would mean another 5 years of idiots like Gove and Hunt in office but I won't vote Labour for the sake of it. The Lib Dems have lost all credibility but the Greens could be an option.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    More to the Midlands than just Birmingham which rightly or wrongly tends to speak for the region. The investments being made in Coventry versus the feeble attempts at protecting jobs made by Labour leaves me with a dilemma. For too long has the Labour party taken votes in our region for granted and with 2 Coventry MPs standing down next year they might regret it.

    I will still probably not end up voting Tory because it would mean another 5 years of idiots like Gove and Hunt in office but I won't vote Labour for the sake of it. The Lib Dems have lost all credibility but the Greens could be an option.
    As a brummy I'm allowed to be brummy centric

    You missed out Owen Patterson, the worst politician in the history of the world ever.

    For me there has always been much more positive changes under a labour local council but I recognise that Coventry has been dicked on by the entire country for a very long time.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    As a brummy I'm allowed to be brummy centric

    You missed out Owen Patterson, the worst politician in the history of the world ever.

    For me there has always been much more positive changes under a labour local council but I recognise that Coventry has been dicked on by the entire country for a very long time.
    Of course! But articles like 'Should there be a Greater Birmingham?' on the BBC really get on people's nerves in the not insignificant other parts of the area. HS2 at least stops at Birmingham-it ploughs through Coventry without stopping

    The Labour councils in both cities have a lot to answer for and their record on child welfare is horrendous. The coalition has done Coventry a deal of good and it has done more for the city than Labour did in its 3 terms. Sad but true although I still expect us to send 3 Labour MPs back to London next year.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Of course! But articles like 'Should there be a Greater Birmingham?' on the BBC really get on people's nerves in the not insignificant other parts of the area. HS2 at least stops at Birmingham-it ploughs through Coventry without stopping

    The Labour councils in both cities have a lot to answer for and their record on child welfare is horrendous. The coalition has done Coventry a deal of good and it has done more for the city than Labour did in its 3 terms. Sad but true although I still expect us to send 3 Labour MPs back to London next year.
    Well at least that way you don't getnswamped with Londoners!

    Its difficult, both my parents were social workers and the truth is the organisation is just too big. Its the biggest in the country yet has a similar amount of funds as elsewhere. Absolute nightmare. The answer really is is to stop demonization of social workers by the press and politicians but obviously that will never happen.

    Sureley a lot of that stuff will have been headed by your local council though? Or were they national initiatives?
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well at least that way you don't getnswamped with Londoners!

    Its difficult, both my parents were social workers and the truth is the organisation is just too big. Its the biggest in the country yet has a similar amount of funds as elsewhere. Absolute nightmare. The answer really is is to stop demonization of social workers by the press and politicians but obviously that will never happen.

    Sureley a lot of that stuff will have been headed by your local council though? Or were they national initiatives?
    My mum works for Coventry CC in adult welfare so I understand totally that the workers themselves have it tough-they are not to blame. The people to blame are the higher ups running the show. No easy way around that and I don't have immediate suggestions as to how you fix it.

    The government announced widespread investments into local economies as a way to create growth outside of the SE. Osborne announced a £60m sum going into Coventry (half-funded by private sources) back in January:

    http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...illion-6511802

    I don't remember Labour doing anything like this.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    My mum works for Coventry CC in adult welfare so I understand totally that the workers themselves have it tough-they are not to blame. The people to blame are the higher ups running the show. No easy way around that and I don't have immediate suggestions as to how you fix it.

    The government announced widespread investments into local economies as a way to create growth outside of the SE. Osborne announced a £60m sum going into Coventry (half-funded by private sources) back in January:

    http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...illion-6511802

    I don't remember Labour doing anything like this.
    I don't know enough about Coventry to comment to be honest, but I do think the Midlands has been on the up for some time now
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    You don't have to study to have a political opinion. You need to have a brain and the ability to think, the ability to work out what problems you think there are in the world and the ability to establish what you think should be done about them.
    Yes, but to be able to understand most of the problems and the potential solutions requires a level of detailed understanding that is waaaay beyond the scope of 90% of the population.

    How many people have a strong opinion about nuclear power but couldn't even explain the difference between fusion or fission?

    How many people have a strong opinion on economic policy, but don't actually understand what the difference is between a free market and a perfectly competitive market?

    On a more general level, how many people actually understand some of the basic arguments behind different strands of political philosophy, like philosophical differences between utilitarianism vs libertarianism?
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So you are essentially happy giving power to UKIP instead of voting? Do you not think that is selfish?

    You're happy to let people privatise the NHS by not voting?

    You're happy to let TTIP come in by not voting?

    You're happy to allow coal plants to continue by not voting?

    Of course you might like all these things, in which case think about what you don't like about labour. There must be things you really don't want. That is what you vote against.

    Do I think the labour party is amazing and perfect? No. Do I think they will protect the NHS and build more houses? Yes. Are they the only party talking about TTIP (bar the greens but I can't take them seriously because of their awful green policies myself)? Yes.

    And that is why I vote and campaign for labour. All there is to it.
    Well you've just ignored my main argument. If I'm voting for the party I dislike the least, then the democracy has failed. What you're saying is that you should vote, even if you vote for people you don't like or support, to avoid the people you really dislike getting into power.

    I think that's a shame.

    Not only that, but if there's more than one party that you dislike the least, you can't vote for both of them. Yet apparently I'm a bad person if I then just don't vote for either.
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    (Original post by Pride)
    Well you've just ignored my main argument. If I'm voting for the party I dislike the least, then the democracy has failed. What you're saying is that you should vote, even if you vote for people you don't like or support, to avoid the people you really dislike getting into power.

    I think that's a shame.

    Not only that, but if there's more than one party that you dislike the least, you can't vote for both of them. Yet apparently I'm a bad person if I then just don't vote for either.
    A shame, but practically there's never going to be a party for everyone and I feel its far more of a shame that people don't care enough about very serious issues to go and try and stop them happening in the simplistic way possible - voting.

    Not voting is just giving support to the party you dislike most.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I don't know enough about Coventry to comment to be honest, but I do think the Midlands has been on the up for some time now
    Maybe in Brum Brum...
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    Definitely. They should be integrating tricky expressions rather than figuring out where they lie on the political spectrum, and with the former I can always help with indefinite integrals.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Maybe in Brum Brum...

    Were dragging you with us kicking and screaming
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Were dragging you with us kicking and screaming
    The day I start saying how bostin' my 'cob' was is the day they catch me in a Villa shirt. Never going to happen!
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Yes, but to be able to understand most of the problems and the potential solutions requires a level of detailed understanding that is waaaay beyond the scope of 90% of the population.

    How many people have a strong opinion about nuclear power but couldn't even explain the difference between fusion or fission?

    How many people have a strong opinion on economic policy, but don't actually understand what the difference is between a free market and a perfectly competitive market?

    On a more general level, how many people actually understand some of the basic arguments behind different strands of political philosophy, like philosophical differences between utilitarianism vs libertarianism?
    I completely understand your point about nuclear power and similar science-based issues, but how do you draw the line between people who are informed and people who aren't? The only way you could deal with that is by having some kind of an exam to be able to vote, and then we wouldn't have a democracy any more. I don't know what the ideal solution to this issue is.

    However, I disagree with your last point. I don't really see why you need to have an academic knowledge of political philosophy to have an opinion. I don't really know what the words "Utilitarianism" and "Libertarianism" mean, but I do know exactly what kind of a society I want and the kinds of steps required to achieve that. I don't understand why I need to know the precise academic terminology of what my beliefs coincide with.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    The day I start saying how bostin' my 'cob' was is the day they catch me in a Villa shirt. Never going to happen!
    But what if your cob was actually bostin?
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    Of course this is inflammatory. Youve assumed farmers have no knowledge of politics.
    You don't have to have a PPE from Oxford to grasp the concept of politics.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    I completely understand your point about nuclear power and similar science-based issues, but how do you draw the line between people who are informed and people who aren't? The only way you could deal with that is by having some kind of an exam to be able to vote, and then we wouldn't have a democracy any more. I don't know what the ideal solution to this issue is.

    However, I disagree with your last point. I don't really see why you need to have an academic knowledge of political philosophy to have an opinion. I don't really know what the words "Utilitarianism" and "Libertarianism" mean, but I do know exactly what kind of a society I want and the kinds of steps required to achieve that. I don't understand why I need to know the precise academic terminology of what my beliefs coincide with.
    When you have people completely uneducated in moral and political philosophy, you have a lot of people who are, for example, quite happy to support a policy that unnecessarily infringes upon other people's freedoms because they haven't fully considered the underlying moral principles that should support any real world policy.


    Unfortunately, the situation we have is an ill-informed and uneducated populace, who have absolutely no idea what is and isn't a good and fair law or policy, and end up just voting for the political party that the media tells them too.

    and when the media is owned by a handful of rich men, we've walked blindly into an autocratic plutocracy. That's the situation we are in now, sadly.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    A shame, but practically there's never going to be a party for everyone and I feel its far more of a shame that people don't care enough about very serious issues to go and try and stop them happening in the simplistic way possible - voting.

    Not voting is just giving support to the party you dislike most.
    Perhaps there will never be a party 'for everyone' but I think it's sad if most people (or a considerable proportion of people) don't like any of the parties, and so if they do vote they choose who they dislike the least. Then they aren't represented.

    I guess it depends how much you dislike one of the parties compared to the others, as well as how popular you feel they are getting. I probably would vote if there was a party that were incredibly evil that I felt were in serious risk getting power (so more likely in periods of recession and high unemployment). That said, what would my one vote mean in a circumstance like that?
 
 
 
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