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I realised "next gen" consoles were well behind on the tech... Watch

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    (Original post by xmertic)
    yeah dude, that's because they are consoles. They are meant to be affordable, which is why the tech is behind

    But I prefer console gaming by a long shot! But I do have a gaming PC

    I just think consoles have a better variety in games and I prefer an actual controller to keyboard and mouse. I know you can connect xbox controllers to PC, but native control you know
    The point is that they are behind, and even for the price point. So that card used is UC's by about 40% and beats the xbone. You can get an equivalent (in terms of compute performance, with is kinda cheating), but far more power efficient card now for £99.99, and it's not too hard to throw together the rest of the system for £250, especially if you have old partly lying around and/or use Linux. From a price efficiency perspective people like to forget that new gen games are £10 over the previous gen as opposed to £10 or more below previous gen on pc.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The point is that they are behind, and even for the price point. So that card used is UC's by about 40% and beats the xbone. You can get an equivalent (in terms of compute performance, with is kinda cheating), but far more power efficient card now for £99.99, and it's not too hard to throw together the rest of the system for £250, especially if you have old partly lying around and/or use Linux. From a price efficiency perspective people like to forget that new gen games are £10 over the previous gen as opposed to £10 or more below previous gen on pc.
    At the time of production the consoles weren't actually behind when taking price point into account. The best PC that could have been built at the time for slightly more than XboxONE money was one which sported an i5-4430 coupled with a GTX 660 - marginally more powerful than the XboxONE, however, weaker than the cheaper PS4. This isn't taking optimisation into account as, in the long run, even the XboxONE would eventually become more effective.
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    (Original post by Caedus)
    At the time of production the consoles weren't actually behind when taking price point into account. The best PC that could have been built at the time for slightly more than XboxONE money was one which sported an i5-4430 coupled with a GTX 660 - marginally more powerful than the XboxONE, however, weaker than the cheaper PS4. This isn't taking optimisation into account as, in the long run, even the XboxONE would eventually become more effective.
    And by the time that happens you're probably looking at the 800 series equivalent being out so it's dropped back again. There were console matching PCs on launch and only a few months later definitively beating, not to mention that if you're building a PC to compete with consoles you don't go for the same price point, you go a bit higher since that price difference is rapidly offset by paying less for games and, in the case of xbone, not paying for live. Then, ofc, you save a load else by not having to also have a computer on the side for general use.
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    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Well my laptop is pretty much scuppered so I need to replace it anyway, so may as well go all out and replace it with something badass. Although chances are I'll end up getting one of the consoles too.
    I'll be getting both consoles once there are a good amount of exclusives. But it's a long while yet.
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    Consoles are going to be obsolete well soon.
    Soon? How so? Obsolescence occurs only when a product is no longer being supported. These new console are going to be supported at least until 2020.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And by the time that happens you're probably looking at the 800 series equivalent being out so it's dropped back again. There were console matching PCs on launch and only a few months later definitively beating, not to mention that if you're building a PC to compete with consoles you don't go for the same price point, you go a bit higher since that price difference is rapidly offset by paying less for games and, in the case of xbone, not paying for live. Then, ofc, you save a load else by not having to also have a computer on the side for general use.
    Let's look at the Xbox 360 and how well it stood up to PC gaming - and this is completely non-biased as I'm a PC user who doesn't own a console. Graphically, the Xbox 360 in its latter years, due to optimisation, managed to conjure up graphics that absolutely blew away what the flagship 2007 PC graphics card was capable of - the 8800 GTX. For instance, look at The Witcher 2. TW2 ran on a combination of low-med settings on a PC which, in 2007 (2 years after the Xbox 360 came out), was a top PC. The Xbox 360, through black magic and such, was able to run the game on med-high which, I can tell you, is quite a substantial difference. Farcry 3 and Crysis 3 are both similar examples of what old tech, optimised though time, is capable of. I think the same will happen with these new consoles - they'll become better and better, outstripping PC tech of similar output.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Do people seriously still try using that line?
    Yes, yes they do. When I buy a console, I want it for gaming, not some "all-in-one" bs.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The point is that they are behind, and even for the price point. So that card used is UC's by about 40% and beats the xbone. You can get an equivalent (in terms of compute performance, with is kinda cheating), but far more power efficient card now for £99.99, and it's not too hard to throw together the rest of the system for £250, especially if you have old partly lying around and/or use Linux. From a price efficiency perspective people like to forget that new gen games are £10 over the previous gen as opposed to £10 or more below previous gen on pc.
    I'm fully aware... I don't know why you told me this.
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    (Original post by AstroNandos)
    Yes, yes they do. When I buy a console, I want it for gaming, not some "all-in-one" bs.
    So, you does that mean that you don't have a smart phone, after all, increasing functionality is clearly bad and mobile phones are for making calls, not going on the internet.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So, you does that mean that you don't have a smart phone, after all, increasing functionality is clearly bad and mobile phones are for making calls, not going on the internet.
    I do have a smartphone, but that's because I WANT the ability to go on the internet when I am not at home. I would rather buy a PS4 over an Xbox One, as it is more powerful and comes at a cheaper price.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So, you does that mean that you don't have a smart phone, after all, increasing functionality is clearly bad and mobile phones are for making calls, not going on the internet.
    Poor comparison really, smartphones can be used for on-the-move information like GPS and maps, train times, theatre shows, cinemas, restaurants and so on. Since the basic mobile phone utilities cannot be improved there's nothing wrong with a smartphone, because the added features don't detract from the core principles.

    However the xbone's obsession with non-gaming features actively detracted from R&D that could have been poured into getting a better gaming system without affecting the price point, since the gaming aspect can still be improved upon. This is one of the reasons the PS4 surpassed the xbone at launch, because it was purer and so offered better gaming-orientated specs for less money, because they weren't charging for excess flab
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    (Original post by AstroNandos)
    I do have a smartphone, but that's because I WANT the ability to go on the internet when I am not at home. I would rather buy a PS4 over an Xbox One, as it is more powerful...
    Enter: cloud computing
    ...and comes at a cheaper price.
    Which is becoming more marginal by the day, the difference is £5 on amazon, and 35 if you get the kinect with it. I would rather spend that extra £35 to get a platform with poor performance and plenty of extra stuff on the side over something with poor performance and nothing of note on the side.
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    Hmm, #PCMasterRace here but I'm still planning to get an Xbox one for the Halo 3 reboot.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Enter: cloud computing

    Which is becoming more marginal by the day, the difference is £5 on amazon, and 35 if you get the kinect with it. I would rather spend that extra £35 to get a platform with poor performance and plenty of extra stuff on the side over something with poor performance and nothing of note on the side.
    Better support for indies, better exclusive games.

    I do agree with your cloud computing point. Having already sold an Xbox One and desiring a Wii U and a PS4, I can see myself getting an XBone again one day when they're using that cloud computing in some interesting ways (assuming there are games worth playing).
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    (Original post by mikeyd85)
    Better support for indies, better exclusive games.
    The exclusives are pretty subjective, as for indies, the impression that I got from E3 is that both are working hard on getting lots of indie titles out. Also, neither of them are external to gaming, how much additional functionality does the PS4 offer than xbone doesn't?

    I do agree with your cloud computing point. Having already sold an Xbox One and desiring a Wii U and a PS4, I can see myself getting an XBone again one day when they're using that cloud computing in some interesting ways (assuming there are games worth playing).
    Too many people are assuming that day one performance differences=performance difference at death. Better optimisation will almost certainly close the gap, and cloud will make sure the gap is gone, with the possibility of superseding PS4, but the console market seems to forget that tech isn't static like their console hardware.
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    Poor comparison really, smartphones can be used for on-the-move information like GPS and maps, train times, theatre shows, cinemas, restaurants and so on. Since the basic mobile phone utilities cannot be improved there's nothing wrong with a smartphone, because the added features don't detract from the core principles.

    However the xbone's obsession with non-gaming features actively detracted from R&D that could have been poured into getting a better gaming system without affecting the price point, since the gaming aspect can still be improved upon. This is one of the reasons the PS4 surpassed the xbone at launch, because it was purer and so offered better gaming-orientated specs for less money, because they weren't charging for excess flab
    The key difference between them though is that M$ were trying to move forwards with thier platform whereas sony, clearly, went for the concept of "well, it worked the last three times, let's pump out another platform that has next to no extended functionality". Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the innards of the two not almost identical? A few more GPU cores (can't think of the correct term off the top of my head) on the PS4 and a different RAM configuration in the one but for all intents and purposes they're the same. But, those extra cores on the PS4 mean that, before being properly optimised, a difference which could vanish with proper optimisation. Cloud computing should close the gap or overtake PS4. And I would say a bigger reason for initial success of PS4 is down to a poor announcement for Xbone and people being seemingly thinking that what is said at announcement is set in stone. How many people were still saying that PS4 is better because of all the DRM and sharing with friends stuff after it was changed? I wonder, how many people still think you have to have Kinect plugged in?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The exclusives are pretty subjective, as for indies, the impression that I got from E3 is that both are working hard on getting lots of indie titles out. Also, neither of them are external to gaming, how much additional functionality does the PS4 offer than xbone doesn't?


    Too many people are assuming that day one performance differences=performance difference at death. Better optimisation will almost certainly close the gap, and cloud will make sure the gap is gone, with the possibility of superseding PS4, but the console market seems to forget that tech isn't static like their console hardware.
    Xbox have a pretty horrible clause for indie devs which put a lot of them off developing for it. See here.

    Optimisation will be interesting with this generation I think. Because of the similarity of architecture between PC and console, I'd expect devs to be able to utilise most of the performance out of the box. I don't think we'll see as much a difference using base console performance this gen as we did last gen, say by comparing the graphics to CoD2 and MW3.

    That being said, the cloud computing could totally throw it in favour of the Xbox. That to me is the most exciting part of the One.

    RE: Added functionality... I only used the "Xbox Record That" command on the XBOne and the YouTube app. Half of that can be done by the PS4 and the other half wasn't really that great so... err? I dunno, I'm not good for this part of the argument. I used the consoles for games. The Xbox 360 however was my Sky Go player! :yep:
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The key difference between them though is that M$ were trying to move forwards with thier platform whereas sony, clearly, went for the concept of "well, it worked the last three times, let's pump out another platform that has next to no extended functionality". Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the innards of the two not almost identical? A few more GPU cores (can't think of the correct term off the top of my head) on the PS4 and a different RAM configuration in the one but for all intents and purposes they're the same. But, those extra cores on the PS4 mean that, before being properly optimised, a difference which could vanish with proper optimisation. Cloud computing should close the gap or overtake PS4. And I would say a bigger reason for initial success of PS4 is down to a poor announcement for Xbone and people being seemingly thinking that what is said at announcement is set in stone. How many people were still saying that PS4 is better because of all the DRM and sharing with friends stuff after it was changed? I wonder, how many people still think you have to have Kinect plugged in?
    Well the press release was obviously a big factor, but that's all Microsoft's fault and going back on their plans doesn't change anything. They tried to constrict and scam their customers and then changed their mind when they were caught out, that doesn't absolve them of being dicks. People who went back to them afterwards were morons, Microsoft hasn't changed their intentions, only their actions.

    In regard to specs, the PS4 wins with faster RAM. You try and spin it into them being unambitious and dull, I call it catering to your target audience. If I go shopping for a car and have the choice between a comfortable, fast car vs. one that is more expensive, slower but has really flashy rims and a spoiler.. well it's a no-brainer. Plus I could drive my car without having a camera watching me all the time :p: (a feature only recently released so its removal is irrelevant when comparing the two)
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    (Original post by mikeyd85)
    Xbox have a pretty horrible clause for indie devs which put a lot of them off developing for it. See here.
    Personally, while I think it shouldn't be there, I can understand why it's there and in some respects believe it to be perfectly reasonable, but thank you for highlighting this.

    Optimisation will be interesting with this generation I think. Because of the similarity of architecture between PC and console, I'd expect devs to be able to utilise most of the performance out of the box. I don't think we'll see as much a difference using base console performance this gen as we did last gen, say by comparing the graphics to CoD2 and MW3.
    I would compare how similar they are to each other, what's the difference, marginally more raw processing power in the PS4 which is possibly offset with better optimisation by the slightly better RAM configuration in the One

    That being said, the cloud computing could totally throw it in favour of the Xbox. That to me is the most exciting part of the One.
    At the same time, it could be a massive flop, especially considering how limited it will be. It would have to be something that's ambient rather than active, otherwise latency and input lag will be a huge issue, even though they're only sat at 30fps atm. At the same time it could make a HUGE difference, take for example, Gulf of Oman on BF4 levolution. If all the physics and rendering for the dust storm were done off system that could offer quite a significant boost to frame rate and detail [of the storm]. I doubt it will give much of an edge, but they don't actually need much.

    RE: Added functionality... I only used the "Xbox Record That" command on the XBOne and the YouTube app. Half of that can be done by the PS4 and the other half wasn't really that great so... err? I dunno, I'm not good for this part of the argument. I used the consoles for games. The Xbox 360 however was my Sky Go player! :yep:
    But it is still there if you want to use it, I would say the main things are Kinect, given voice commands and things that could be done with it by devs in the future, especially now it's got the PC support, and the multiwindow thing (although more so kinect). Not to mention, Skype isn't going to be making it to PS4 any time soon, and it's practically replaced parties.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    How many people were still saying that PS4 is better because of all the DRM and sharing with friends stuff after it was changed? I wonder, how many people still think you have to have Kinect plugged in?
    Probably a lot, because Microsoft got up on the big stage and told people that it was required. Twice. People heard this being said at the Xbox One reveal and E3 and made a decision on which console they wanted. Do not go up on the big stage and tell your potential consumers what they don't want to hear. Even though they reversed their awful policies, a lot of gamers were obviously still angry. Many seem to have gone from the 360 to PS4.

    Microsoft hugely messed up by wasting resources on improving the Kinect. The hardware will now always be inferior to the PS4's and people will continue to bring it up. The price of the consoles is now the same, if you compare the PS4 to the Kinectless Xbone. You're still paying the same price for inferior hardware.
 
 
 
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