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    Most guys need to realise that if they're not very good with attracting women, it's probably because they're kinda ugly, or they're a ****. I've just come to accept that I'm a bit **** really lol.

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    It kinda shows that looks is quite important to many girls. While personality is a significant factor in who a girl chooses to date, looks, as much we don't like to admit it, plays an important role as well. So, if a girl doesn't find you attractive at all, forget it, you can be the perfect guy who is kind, funny, easy talk to etc. But all that on it's own, would only get you to top friendship level, rarely a relationship.
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    The friendzone isn't real.
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    (Original post by brendonbackflip)
    This is what I oppose to really, just because her relationships have ended badly does not mean she picked looks over personality - she might have thought (perhaps wrongly to an outsider, yet nevertheless she still thought) that she was getting a nice combination. Just because you see a dickface with a pretty face doesn't mean she sees the same, or understands what she's getting herself into. So implying that its really her/their fault isn't fair at all. I'm sorry this girl doesn't like you back, or that you feel you are struggling compared to other blokes, but there's no need to start being all "well its her fault because her boyfriend's a ****er". Doesn't seem that respectful really...
    You've somewhat twisted what I've said. I never implied that anything was "her fault", I merely said that what ended up happening shouldn't have come as a surprise - in the same way it shouldn't come as a surprise that you get soaked if you go outside in the rain. It's possibly true that she didn't perceive them the same way I did early on, but having witnessed everything unfold it's pretty difficult to conceive how this could have been the case. It was pretty plainly apparent from the outset that the guys in question didn't respect her/were only after one thing. I was actually there the night she met one of them in a bar, he was grabbing her arse within about 20 mintues of meeting her. Doesn't exactly scream I respect you as a person and I want a serious relationship, does it?
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    (Original post by lucaf)
    If the best you have to offer is not being a ****, then you really have nothing to offer.
    Or in other words... being a good/kind/thoughtful/caring person counts for diddly squat?
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    (Original post by Ziggy Sawdust)
    Or in other words... being a good/kind/thoughtful/caring person counts for diddly squat?
    Being a good, kind, thoughtful, caring person is just common courtesy though. Of course it's good to be those things, but those things alone aren't enough to base a romantic relationship on.
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    (Original post by TroyAndAbed)
    Being a good, kind, thoughtful, caring person is just common courtesy though. Of course it's good to be those things, but those things alone aren't enough to base a romantic relationship on.
    Well it's a common courtesy that a fairly sizable proportion of population fail to provide in my experience.
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    Common courtesy isn't so common.
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    (Original post by Ziggy Sawdust)
    This is all very well but I've lost count of the number of female friends who have chosen to date 'alpha male' bad boy types because they find them physically attractive, only to get cheated on a while into the relationship. As one of their close friends and a decent person I have of course been there to listen and offer moral support. But while they're ranting about 'hating men' and 'all guys being the same', I can't stop the voice in my head from screaming 'they really arent! YOU just always choose to date the same kind of men!'.

    I completely agree with you that being nice doesn't automatically entitle anybody to a relationship, as well as about people making their intentions clear. However, you must realise that it's far easier for a confident/arrogant, brash guys who see women as objects/potential conquests to brazen flirt, than it is for a shy, humble, respectful man to do the same. On a personal level, I've watched one of my best (female) friends date a string of horrible but physically attractive and confident guys, and I've been there to pick her up everytime she gets her heart broken. I've liked her more than just as a friend for sometime, and I would have thought that this would have been obvious from all I've done for her, but I think it's pretty safe to say that I'm well and truly friendzoned. Anyway, I don't really know where I'm going with this, I just think that if people (not just women) choose their partners based on physical attraction rather than personality then they shouldn't really be that surprised if they get treated badly, and they certainly shouldn't start generalising about all men when it's really their taste in men that's the issue.
    When did I say that I only chose men by their looks? Personality 100% comes into play when most women (at least concerning myself and my friends) consider a relationship. While yes, I have dated a typical "bad boy", I was 17 at the time and just out of a relationship with a far more respectable young man. The bad boy phase lasted a grand total of 4 months until I was cheated on, and have not since put myself in such a relationship. Surely, guys have dated girls who are bad influences as well - otherwise the "bad girls" out there would never have dates!
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    I'm sorry, but from my experience with girls, you could be absolutely perfect for them in terms of your personality, interests, general looks (relative equality~) while being "too nice" (e.g. just being a nice person, without actually being overly pleasant) can sometimes make you less attractive than an absolute prick; believe me, I've been very nice to girls that I got on extremely well with and they rejected me, then I was an absolute jerk to another similar girl and she went out with me in pretty much otherwise exactly the same conditions. face it - girls, many of them at least, a lot of the time, just don't like being treated well.
    How do you know that the girls who rejected you didn't find you physically attractive, though you got on well, but the one who you were successful with were physically attracted to you? In other words, how do you know it was your 'not treating her well' that made her want to date you? Plus one girl is not representative of the entire female sex....and besides being treated 'well' will mean such different things to various women, for some that would mean being romantic and courteous e.g. paying for meals and following an ideal of 'ladies first', whereas other women wouldn't see it as romantic but rather as patronizing and outdated. Basically you can't generalise and you can't deduce that because you were 'very nice to girls that I got on extremely well with and they rejected me', that they rejected you because you were nice to them, maybe they just weren't attracted to you/didn't see you in a sexual or romantic light? I think that's more plausible than this cliched 'women love arrogant ********s' line.
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    I either don't understand the concept of being "friendzoned" or people are just too dramatic about it.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    how is a guy wanting to spend time with you not flirting or a sign of attraction? Out of curiosity what would you consider flirting?
    A guy simply wanting to spend time with me is certainly not flirting. I want to (and do) spend time with my mom, my dad, my brothers, my best friend, my boss, plenty of guys, and plenty of girls, and I am not flirting with any of them. If a male sits down next to me on a regular basis and we chat about mutual interests, I do not automatically assume that he is hinting that he wants a relationship, because I would do this with anyone platonically. Flirting involves a sexual and romantic element that chatting and "hanging out" does not. Flirting involves random digs, compliments, alluring body language, and animated facial expressions that regular conversation does not have on the same level. When one flirts, they have physical contact (a light touch or shove), or a glance that lasts longer than one that comes from someone who is just a friend.

    Imagine two separate scenarios with the same male and female in each:

    1. A male and a female are sitting together at the park chatting on a hillside. They are smiling and looking at their surroundings, looking at one another briefly to continue, or sit a reasonable distance from each other while looking at each other and chatting without any physical contact. When they laugh, they laugh loudly and seem natural together. Occasionally, they will do something embarrassing and will laugh at it together, and create inside jokes regarding the situation. Both friends sit however they feel comfortable and they don't really take notice of how the other is sitting.

    2. A male and a female are sitting together at the park chatting on a hillside. They are smiling shyly and often look down and steal glances at one another, the glances lingering as they catch each others' eye. They both look slightly self-conscious as they want to impress the other person, and do not take not of their surroundings. They often touch either "by accident" or as a slight brush. They make jokes at each others' expense and laugh quietly, again, holding back a little bit. The male keeps his shoulders broad and knees apart, making himself seem bigger, while the female crosses her legs and continues to play with and adjust her hair. They often look at how the other person is sitting.

    After reading those two scenarios, both with the same people in the same location, tell me that there is not a difference between flirting and being just friends.
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    (Original post by Cornelius)
    I either don't understand the concept of being "friendzoned" or people are just too dramatic about it.
    The concept is easy, even if the term is a bit naff. Rejected sexually by someone who still offers friendship.

    It can trigger dramatic emotions as to the person who wants more sex seems like a natural progression of the friendship and the rejection is hard to come to terms with. Well worth avoiding in my experience.
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    If you are very attractive, you will get interest. Nice guy or not.

    However your demeanor goes a long way. It's just such a shame that "nice guys" are like a blank canvas, there is just nothing going on. How on earth is that attractive?

    Doesn't mean you need to be a '****' per se, but surely there is something interesting about you that a woman will be intrigued by? Being a special cloth that soaks up emotional problems is not going to get you anywhere.

    Best bet, make your intentions clear from the offset. Don't lament on your feelings for months on end 'being her friend'.. if you behave like a friend to people, why would they see you as anything but that?

    Like a girl? Tell her.

    If she doesn't like you back? Move on.
    If she does like you back? Go for it.

    No need to make it more complicated than it already is. :erm:
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    Two sides to this. A lot of men talking about this in reference to themselves are indeed being entitled and irritating. It is however quite annoying when certain females repeatedly complain about partners treating them like ****. Largely because it's apparently insensitive to tell them "well what did you expect? you keep on chasing/ picking absolute **** heads. They're not going to change overnight"
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    It's that classic Wong-Fu series (watch it if you haven't seen it!)

    I have a nice guy T-shirt which became a huge joke with people that know me. I go it purely for irony because I'm a horrible ****!

    -Leo
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    (Original post by DannyYYYY)
    The friendzone isn't real.
    The friendzone, or unrequited love is real. I don't get why people saying that it's impossible for a man or a woman to make their intentions clear to someone they like but they're rejected because the person they like doesnt want to lose them as a friend.

    It's more common than you think.
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    (Original post by canadamoose)
    A guy simply wanting to spend time with me is certainly not flirting. I want to (and do) spend time with my mom, my dad, my brothers, my best friend, my boss, plenty of guys, and plenty of girls, and I am not flirting with any of them. If a male sits down next to me on a regular basis and we chat about mutual interests, I do not automatically assume that he is hinting that he wants a relationship, because I would do this with anyone platonically. Flirting involves a sexual and romantic element that chatting and "hanging out" does not. Flirting involves random digs, compliments, alluring body language, and animated facial expressions that regular conversation does not have on the same level. When one flirts, they have physical contact (a light touch or shove), or a glance that lasts longer than one that comes from someone who is just a friend.

    Imagine two separate scenarios with the same male and female in each:

    1. A male and a female are sitting together at the park chatting on a hillside. They are smiling and looking at their surroundings, looking at one another briefly to continue, or sit a reasonable distance from each other while looking at each other and chatting without any physical contact. When they laugh, they laugh loudly and seem natural together. Occasionally, they will do something embarrassing and will laugh at it together, and create inside jokes regarding the situation. Both friends sit however they feel comfortable and they don't really take notice of how the other is sitting.

    2. A male and a female are sitting together at the park chatting on a hillside. They are smiling shyly and often look down and steal glances at one another, the glances lingering as they catch each others' eye. They both look slightly self-conscious as they want to impress the other person, and do not take not of their surroundings. They often touch either "by accident" or as a slight brush. They make jokes at each others' expense and laugh quietly, again, holding back a little bit. The male keeps his shoulders broad and knees apart, making himself seem bigger, while the female crosses her legs and continues to play with and adjust her hair. They often look at how the other person is sitting.

    After reading those two scenarios, both with the same people in the same location, tell me that there is not a difference between flirting and being just friends.
    So what happens after a certain period of time after they've been flirting and dating for a while? Do you think that number 2 just constantly happens all the time? I'd say things end up like number 1 but with a bit more contact.

    It's silly to brand an entire generation I know but men have either lost the ability or simply lost the interest in being romantic with women. Disney/films has also had negative effects on the way people probably act and expect. Films usually depict a nice but in no way sexual man attracting a woman either from the grasps of a horrible deceptive person or just generally sweeping her off her feet.

    Of course, real life doesn't work like that, but our character is the sum of our experiences and like porn, film influences millions of people on what real life should be like.
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    (Original post by Welsh_insomniac)
    The friendzone, or unrequited love is real. I don't get why people saying that it's impossible for a man or a woman to make their intentions clear to someone they like but they're rejected because the person they like doesnt want to lose them as a friend.

    It's more common than you think.
    It's because it makes no sense. Why would anyone pass on a relationship with someone they find attractive just because they're already friends? You're rejected because they don't find you attractive, not because you're friends. The friends excuse is just a lame cop out.
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    (Original post by ilem)
    It's because it makes no sense. Why would anyone pass on a relationship with someone they find attractive just because they're already friends? You're rejected because they don't find you attractive, not because you're friends. The friends excuse is just a lame cop out.
    Unless I'm missing other peoples definitions of friendzone? But that's what I meant. It's a situation where you find someone attractive but they don't find you attractive and so you've ended up in a situation where one has feelings but the other doesn't but you still spend time together because it's fun and theres a level of familiarity so you're friends.

    The rejection is because of a lack of attraction but some people are just too scared to do the right thing and just cut off the friendship and instead go along and hope they will change their mind but that never really happens. Have you never liked someone who's never liked you back?
 
 
 
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