The "Nice Guy" complex

This is what I oppose to really, just because her relationships have ended badly does not mean she picked looks over personality - she might have thought (perhaps wrongly to an outsider, yet nevertheless she still thought) that she was getting a nice combination. Just because you see a dickface with a pretty face doesn't mean she sees the same, or understands what she's getting herself into. So implying that its really her/their fault isn't fair at all. I'm sorry this girl doesn't like you back, or that you feel you are struggling compared to other blokes, but there's no need to start being all "well its her fault because her boyfriend's a ****er". Doesn't seem that respectful really...

If the best you have to offer is not being a dick, then you really have nothing to offer.

Or in other words... being a good/kind/thoughtful/caring person counts for diddly squat?

Being a good, kind, thoughtful, caring person is just common courtesy though. Of course it's good to be those things, but those things alone aren't enough to base a romantic relationship on.

This is all very well but I've lost count of the number of female friends who have chosen to date 'alpha male' bad boy types because they find them physically attractive, only to get cheated on a while into the relationship. As one of their close friends and a decent person I have of course been there to listen and offer moral support. But while they're ranting about 'hating men' and 'all guys being the same', I can't stop the voice in my head from screaming 'they really arent! YOU just always choose to date the same kind of men!'.

I completely agree with you that being nice doesn't automatically entitle anybody to a relationship, as well as about people making their intentions clear. However, you must realise that it's far easier for a confident/arrogant, brash guys who see women as objects/potential conquests to brazen flirt, than it is for a shy, humble, respectful man to do the same. On a personal level, I've watched one of my best (female) friends date a string of horrible but physically attractive and confident guys, and I've been there to pick her up everytime she gets her heart broken. I've liked her more than just as a friend for sometime, and I would have thought that this would have been obvious from all I've done for her, but I think it's pretty safe to say that I'm well and truly friendzoned. Anyway, I don't really know where I'm going with this, I just think that if people (not just women) choose their partners based on physical attraction rather than personality then they shouldn't really be that surprised if they get treated badly, and they certainly shouldn't start generalising about all men when it's really their taste in men that's the issue.

I'm sorry, but from my experience with girls, you could be absolutely perfect for them in terms of your personality, interests, general looks (relative equality~) while being "too nice" (e.g. just being a nice person, without actually being overly pleasant) can sometimes make you less attractive than an absolute prick; believe me, I've been very nice to girls that I got on extremely well with and they rejected me, then I was an absolute jerk to another similar girl and she went out with me in pretty much otherwise exactly the same conditions. face it - girls, many of them at least, a lot of the time, just don't like being treated well.

how is a guy wanting to spend time with you not flirting or a sign of attraction? Out of curiosity what would you consider flirting?

I either don't understand the concept of being "friendzoned" or people are just too dramatic about it.

The friendzone isn't real.

A guy simply wanting to spend time with me is certainly not flirting. I want to (and do) spend time with my mom, my dad, my brothers, my best friend, my boss, plenty of guys, and plenty of girls, and I am not flirting with any of them. If a male sits down next to me on a regular basis and we chat about mutual interests, I do not automatically assume that he is hinting that he wants a relationship, because I would do this with anyone platonically. Flirting involves a sexual and romantic element that chatting and "hanging out" does not. Flirting involves random digs, compliments, alluring body language, and animated facial expressions that regular conversation does not have on the same level. When one flirts, they have physical contact (a light touch or shove), or a glance that lasts longer than one that comes from someone who is just a friend.

Imagine two separate scenarios with the same male and female in each:

1. A male and a female are sitting together at the park chatting on a hillside. They are smiling and looking at their surroundings, looking at one another briefly to continue, or sit a reasonable distance from each other while looking at each other and chatting without any physical contact. When they laugh, they laugh loudly and seem natural together. Occasionally, they will do something embarrassing and will laugh at it together, and create inside jokes regarding the situation. Both friends sit however they feel comfortable and they don't really take notice of how the other is sitting.

2. A male and a female are sitting together at the park chatting on a hillside. They are smiling shyly and often look down and steal glances at one another, the glances lingering as they catch each others' eye. They both look slightly self-conscious as they want to impress the other person, and do not take not of their surroundings. They often touch either "by accident" or as a slight brush. They make jokes at each others' expense and laugh quietly, again, holding back a little bit. The male keeps his shoulders broad and knees apart, making himself seem bigger, while the female crosses her legs and continues to play with and adjust her hair. They often look at how the other person is sitting.

After reading those two scenarios, both with the same people in the same location, tell me that there is not a difference between flirting and being just friends.

The friendzone, or unrequited love is real. I don't get why people saying that it's impossible for a man or a woman to make their intentions clear to someone they like but they're rejected because the person they like doesnt want to lose them as a friend.

It's more common than you think.

It's because it makes no sense. Why would anyone pass on a relationship with someone they find attractive just because they're already friends? You're rejected because they don't find you attractive, not because you're friends. The friends excuse is just a lame cop out.